Matt 24:31, And he shall sent his angles with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his ELECT from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other, are you going to be in that number, are you part of the elect? I think that you are. Col 3:11-12, Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free, but Christ is all, and in all. Put on therefore, as the ELECT of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering. Rom 9:11, For the children, being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to ELECTION might stand, not of works, but oh him that calleth. Rom 11:7, What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for, but the ELECTION hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded. that is an absurd statement, that redemption is never tied to salvation. Redemption means delivered and delivered means saved. Check strong's concordance. What great effort man will go to in searching for a way to get to heaven by his own works,
John Chapter 3 REFUTES Five Point Calvinism
- Thread starter Nehemiah6
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Too many scriptures that you have not harmonized with your understanding on how God eternally saves the unregenerate. Dan 4:35, If it was God's will to save all mankind, and he accomplishes all of his will, and none can stay his hand, then all mankind would surly live in heaven with him. If that was the case there are too many scriptures that will not harmonize with that assertion. ALL scriptures must harmonize.
R
Ralph-
Guest
What part of God speaking to a person by his Holy Spirit so they can understand and accept the gospel do you not understand?
Here again you throw up your false argument and fail to address the main issue. Those who have been saved know they are saved and know how they got saved. Those who are not create elaborate fantasies and flee from the simple truth Christ delivered on the subject.
2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
You need to get right with God. No amount of obfuscation will reduce your responsibility to account to God for what you have done with Christ.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Matthew 24:31 is concerning the great tribulation in which I will not be a part of because the church will have already been raptured. This elect group is chosen to give testimony during the tribulation, the 144,000 male Jews. I am, however, a part of the church as described in Colossians 3. We are to put on the image of Jesus Christ, God's elect. Romans 9 is concerning God's elect nation, Israel and has zero to do with salvation.
We do not see eternal salvation with the same understanding, yours is by works and mine is by God's grace without the help of man.
All scripture is the inspired word of God. You cannot ignore any one of them and understand the doctrine that Jesus taught,
False accusation. Gods grace is the center of my soteriology. You believe God will save a man even if the man does not want to go to heaven. God does not compel anyone to be saved. You have a faulty understanding of salvation and that is not good.
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All scripture is the inspired word of God. You cannot ignore any one of them and understand the doctrine that Jesus taught,[/QUOTE]
Well duh. Why don't you receive sound doctrine? Take responsibility for your sin and ask Christ to save you.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
As always God the faithful Creator must do the first work of giving us ears to hear what the Spirit is saying to us. "Let there be and there was ears to hear.
Isaiah 29:18 In that day the deaf shall hear the words of the book, And the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity and out of darkness.
How can he surrender if He does not first hear him not seen as in no previous understanding?
As it is written:“There is none righteous, no, not one; There is none who understands;There is none who seeks after God. Romans 3
Remember natural man is shown as having "no faith". Where and whose faith is it by which we can beleive God.
Surely not the sinful imaginations of our own sinful hearts ?
Isaiah is not talking about men that are but natural men, void of the Spirit ( 1 cor 2:14 ). He is talking about Jerusalem ( Ariel , verse 1 ). Read the whole chapter to keep it in context.
Well duh. Why don't you receive sound doctrine? Take responsibility for your sin and ask Christ to save you.
For the cause of Christ
Roger[/QUOTE]
Why don't you explain 1 Cor 2:14 in a way that makes sense, instead of ignoring it?
Matt 24 is not talking about the second coming of Christ as I referenced it. I was too hasty in gleaning my information. However, it is not talking about a great tribulation to come at a later date from now. It is talking about the destruction of Jerusalem and in verse 34 , Jesus says THIS generation shall not pass till all these things be fulfilled. The thousand year reign is a false doctrine. It will never happen.
I hate to disillusion you but both the 5 points of Calvinism and the 5 points of Arminianism are both Biblical. Even though they are diametrically opposed. The Apostles Creed was created for 2 reasons. First it is a concise statement of what a Christian must believe. Second violations of this are heretical. Anything outside of it is agree to disagree. When it was created about 390 there was many issues where disagreements were happening. So this started in the early church. You want everything to be plain but that is not the case and never has been. That is why the early church elders made it plain that issues outside of the Creed were to agree to disagree. Calvinism, Armenianism, and other views fall into this category. You can argue all you want but both of these have Biblical references.
Here is a site discussing the differences and the history of the issue.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Calvinist–Arminian_debate
What makes you think I hold to the Five Points of Arminianism? I am simply presenting Bible truth, so you have not not disillusioned me in the least.
The generation in which Jesus was describing, not the current generation in which Jesus was in. Do you believe the great tribulation has already passed? Has the Son of man returned as stated in v30?
It is understandable to everyone but you or so it seems. You cannot receive 1 Cor 2:14.
God moves in the hearts of unsaved men. It is God that reaches down to lift men out of sin. Men do not reach up and take hold of God. The hearing of Gods word produces faith because the Holy Spirit brings conviction of sin in the heart of unsaved men. The Holy Spirit brings conviction of the righteousness of Christ in the hearts of unsaved men. The Holy Spirit brings conviction of the terrible judgment of God upon sin in the hearts of unsaved men.
The hardness of men's hearts cause them to refuse to accept the great offering of love that Christ tenders to them. Religious men are often the hardest to reach for they are comfortable in their self righteousness. They see no need to come to Christ as they are better than other men and certainly worthy of heaven in their own opinion.
If you cannot understand the simple gospel you will never comprehend the doctrine of election. Children can understand the gospel but many theologians fail to grasp election according to the bible.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
The church that Christ set up was called by several different names, Church of God, church of the first born, New Jerusalem, Church of Christ, "THE KINGDOM OF GOD". Israel used to be God's favored nation and because of their unfaithfulness, God took it away from them and gave it to the Gentiles. In Mark 14:25 after initiating the emblems of communion, the bread and the wine, Jesus stated "Verily I say unto, I will drink no more of the fruit of the vine, until that day that I drink it new in "THE KINGDOM OF GOD" ( the church ). The destruction of Jerusalem, not the great tribulation you have devised in your mind. Luke 21:5-6 , And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said, As for these things which "YE" ( those that spake of the temple ) behold, the days will come, in the which thereof there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. Verse 20, And when "YE" ( those that spake of the temple ) shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. Verse 24, And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations; and Jerusalem shall be trodden down by the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. Verse 31-32, So likewise "YE" ( those that spake of the temple ) when "YE" ( those that spake of the temple ) see these things come to pass, know "YE" ( those that spake of the temple ) that the KINGDOM OF GOD ( the church, not the tribulation ) is nigh at hand. Verily I say unto "YOU" ( those that spake of the temple ) , this generation ( the generation of those that spake of the temple ) shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled. The Son of man has returned as the bridegroom of, the bride ( his church-THE KINGDOM OF GOD ).
It is you that fails to understand 1 Cor 2:14. The natural man described in 1 Cor 2:14, even if God were to speak to them, which he does not, they would not understand his spiritual words, they would be foolishness unto him. The natural man, void of the Spirit, can not be convicted of breaking a spiritual law that he cannot see, or understand. I do understand why God has not revealed 1 Cor 2:14 to you, because until you deny yourself of believing that you are eternally saved by your works, he will not reveal it. God hates the pride of man.
You are terribly, terribly wrong. Cain knew he was wrong when he offered a sacrifice that God rejected. Is it your pride that prevents you from humbling yourself before God? You just cannot accept responsibility for your sin.
Don't be the man in John 3:20. Come to the Light and do not retreat into the darkness. There is still time if you will allow Christ to save you. You cannot be saved against your will.
For the cause of Christ
Roger