Rev 3:19, As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten; Be zealous therefore, and repent. Psalms 73:5, They are not in trouble as other men; neither are they PLAGUED ( Greek translation = divinely punished ) like other men. If God divinely punishes everyone that he loves, why does he not punish the wicked mentioned in Psalms 73, if he loves all mankind?
God does not love all mankind.
- Thread starter ForestGreenCook
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I would refer you to your favorite verse in 1 Cor 2:14. If you do not know the love of God you cannot have love for your fellow man.
How could Jesus forgive those who were driving nails into His hands and feet if He did not love them? They were not saved but He did forgive them.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
How could Jesus forgive those who were driving nails into His hands and feet if He did not love them? They were not saved but He did forgive them.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
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Roger, Thanks for staying with me. I love to discuss the doctrine of Jesus with you. In 1 John 2:1-2, My little children ( John would not have called them children unless they were already children of God ). but also for the sins of the whole world. sometimes in the scriptures the word WORLD has reference to the world of God's elect. Such is the case in John 3:16 where the word WORLD according to Thayer's Greek interpretation means "USED OF BELIEVERS ONLY" and also in John 1:29, 3:17, 6:33, 12:47, 1 Cor 4:9, 2 Cor 5:19. 1 John 2:2 in the KJV has a reference to John 1:29. All scriptures must harmonize!
Roger, Don't forget how totally depraved our fleshly nature is. Just because we have been born again does not mean that we left our sin nature behind. Paul gives us an example of the fleshly nature he has in Rom 7:18-20, For I know that in me, ( that is, in my flesh ) dwelleth no good thing; for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. For the good that I would, I do not; but the evil which I would not, that I do. Never underestimate just how sinful some children of God can be when they are yielding themselves to their fleshly nature, even to crucify their savior. We have an example of that in Acts 2:36-38, Therefore let all the house of Israel ( God's favored nation ) know assuredly , that God made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. Now when they heard this , they were pricked ( the natural man cannot be pricked ) in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, men and brethren, what shall we do? Then Peter said unto them, repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for ( because of ) the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift ( revelation of the truth ) of the Holy Ghost.
If God loves the natural man and is waiting for him to reflect that love, how do you dismiss the starting scriptures that reveals that he does not love the wicked in Psalms 73?
If God loves the natural man and is waiting for him to reflect that love, how do you dismiss the starting scriptures that reveals that he does not love the wicked in Psalms 73?
Nope only that God did not ever make even a single man so He could condemn them. God loved mankind so much that He gave His only begotten Son to die in their place on Calvary. Jesus paid the debt owed for mans sin because man could not pay it apart from eternal condemnation.
Men choose to go to hell. God gives them a choice and they choose hell over eternal life. They choose that because they will not submit to Gods righteousness.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Men choose to go to hell. God gives them a choice and they choose hell over eternal life. They choose that because they will not submit to Gods righteousness.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Context out of Love for all God provided what? His Son. John 3:16 , that is not all God has done he also provided everything need for all men to live , food, water , shelter etc.. even those ewvil men God did not deny a drink of water . HIS love for us is welll seen in HIS handy work or creation. wickedness is on man. God did not create sin nor did he make man with Sin. The very first actions of God was to make man in the likeness of Himself which is Love. man thought something else.
It is not so depraved that we cannot hear the gospel and choose to believe it.
That is a false assertion.
That is a false assertion. People repent and are baptized FOR the remission of sins, not because it's already happened.
That is a false assertion. The gift of the Holy Spirit is not the "revelation of the truth". When people hear the gospel and choose to believe it, THEN they receive the gift of the Holy Spirit (Eph 1:13).
Each of your comments in parentheses are false, Forest.
God wants the wicked to repent.
Eze 33:
11) Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
2 Pet 3:
9) The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
That is a false assertion.
That is a false assertion. People repent and are baptized FOR the remission of sins, not because it's already happened.
That is a false assertion. The gift of the Holy Spirit is not the "revelation of the truth". When people hear the gospel and choose to believe it, THEN they receive the gift of the Holy Spirit (Eph 1:13).
Each of your comments in parentheses are false, Forest.
God wants the wicked to repent.
Eze 33:
11) Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
2 Pet 3:
9) The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
You and I discussed this issue concerning Thayer's in the "what must I do to be saved" thread.
I do not believe you ever replied to this post from that thread:
I'm not making this up, ForestGreenCook.
Earlier editions of Thayer's defined the word kosmos in John 3:16 as "the inhabitants of the world: particularly the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human race".
I'll leave it to you to come up with your reason as to why later editions do not include John 3:16 under that particular definition, but it appears to me that someone is trying to support a certain doctrine in having removed the reference.
I do not believe you ever replied to this post from that thread:
I'm not making this up, ForestGreenCook.
Earlier editions of Thayer's defined the word kosmos in John 3:16 as "the inhabitants of the world: particularly the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human race".
I'll leave it to you to come up with your reason as to why later editions do not include John 3:16 under that particular definition, but it appears to me that someone is trying to support a certain doctrine in having removed the reference.
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You are assaulting the character and nature of God. Christ died for all mankind so that all men have the opportunity to be saved.
You must learn the difference between these two big words. Christ's death was sufficient to save all mankind. Christ's death is only efficacious to those who come to Christ and ask Him to save them.
You are locked in a feed back loop of ingrained error. Every time you are confronted with truth contrary to your prejudice against the truth you revert back to the original error you walked in with.
You must become born again to understand the doctrines of Christ.
Many here have endeavored to give you the truth. You are not receiving it. 1 Cor 2:14 testifies against you.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
You must learn the difference between these two big words. Christ's death was sufficient to save all mankind. Christ's death is only efficacious to those who come to Christ and ask Him to save them.
You are locked in a feed back loop of ingrained error. Every time you are confronted with truth contrary to your prejudice against the truth you revert back to the original error you walked in with.
You must become born again to understand the doctrines of Christ.
Many here have endeavored to give you the truth. You are not receiving it. 1 Cor 2:14 testifies against you.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
God isn't actually punishing us, He is correcting and helping us. We recognize we are sinners and lost without Him, We recognize compared to Him we are disgusting filth. So we try to adapt the things God has listed for us to help us become purer. Sometimes within that process, God has to intervene in the case we are going about it wrong or misunderstanding what He actually wants. And sometimes He knocks us down a peg when we forget we are representing Him, especially when believing we are doing it on our own merit.
But the sinner feels they are perfect, and have no need to be better, including believing in a God. They are prepping themselves for another type of correction/punishment. One that is forever and the lesson is a reminder they were wrong!!
Romans 9:13 Jacob I have loved, but Esau have I hated.
Roman 9:22 speaks of God having vessels of His wrath, prepared for destruction.
So it sounds like God actually hates certain people, it's undeniable. The question is, who are these people and why does God hate them. The fact that God casts certain sinners onto hell, to be tormented forever demonstrates that He hates certain people.
Many say that God loves everyone, regardless of how much they have sinned. The Bible seems to indicate otherwise.
Roman 9:22 speaks of God having vessels of His wrath, prepared for destruction.
So it sounds like God actually hates certain people, it's undeniable. The question is, who are these people and why does God hate them. The fact that God casts certain sinners onto hell, to be tormented forever demonstrates that He hates certain people.
Many say that God loves everyone, regardless of how much they have sinned. The Bible seems to indicate otherwise.