The bible does not state specifically of anyone that will be sent to the lake of fire but only states the cause of such a person being sent and confined there eternally. Even then it is unclear whether or not a person in in the lake of fire remains conscience but is simply burned up and eventually extinguished.
God sending People He made and loves to the lake of fire.
- Thread starter Chuckyz2
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The bible does not state specifically of anyone that will be sent to the lake of fire but only states the cause of such a person being sent and confined there eternally. Even then it is unclear whether or not a person in in the lake of fire remains conscience but is simply burned up and eventually extinguished.
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9
God does not desire that anyone should be cast into the Lake of Fire. But you are mistaken if you think that once there it is not an eternal conscious torment. There is absolutely no basis for Annihilationism -- that people will be burned up and extinguished.
I will do some research on this as I believe that I have come across passages that imply that once extinguished consciousness ceases. I also wonder that if it is God's will and desire that none shall perish but all have everlasting life then sending someone into the lake of fire would be a contradiction and contrary to God's stated will and desire regarding this.
Wow so God has to conform to your judgment and morality? I'm sorry but you don't get to do that, you don't get to just declare "if God's like this He is evil". I'm sorry but the arrogance of this comment was a bit much to me. God is just, He is also infinite in all His attributes, so His standard of justice is just as big in scope as His love and mercy are. There is only one logical way that these 3 attributes can exist together and save men. The cross and the sacrifice of the sinless lamb of God. None of these make God evil, when a man is saved God is glorified in His mercy, when a man is guilty God is glorified in His perfect justice, for you to declare that if God punishes wickedness, He is evil just does not make any sense to me at all. I also am not saying you can't have and/or share your opinions, it's just absolute moral judgements on the character of God like that come off way harsh and unbelievably arrogant to me, even though that was not your intention I'm sure. You say " Any God that would cast his own child into eternal punishment is a evil God. Period." I agree, good thing that's not the case with the true God. God brought this child into the world and was rejected by the child, He then took His time and taught us right from wrong with the law and the promise of redemption, then He actually took on human flesh, stepped into time and space and condemned sin in the flesh. He then laid down His life, took the full wrath of God due to us for our transgressions so that we might believe and take the free gift of reconciliation with Him. He could do any more to save us from our ignorant rebellion. This is not just "god casting His children in the fire", He had done EVERYTHING to keep us from that, in love He says "Come.", so I feel your whole point is based on a false view of who God is and is totally ignoring everything else but your feelings. . Just because you can't stomach the natural consequences of sin does not make God evil for punishing it.
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Seedz
Guest
Actually, no. It says πᾶς. In context it means all who believe. Here's another verse using the same word πᾶς.
If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister; Colossians 1:23
Is chuckycheez's most excellent exegesis consistent to say that the gospel was preached to every creature under heaven?
Actually, no, It says πᾶς, which many times is used to refer to a group as a whole, but not every individual within that group. Which Paul does in this case and then qualifies it with "particularly those who believe".
Yes they would very much be in business because even if there was universal salvation that could not be assumed and it would still require the sacrifice of the shed blood of Jesus dying on the cross for the remission of sins and for the Holy Spirit to enter in us to guide us on our repentance and spiritual journey. Unless one is born again they will be no means enter into the kingdom of heaven. The question regarding universalism is that will everyone indeed eventually be born again?
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Seedz
Guest
Haha, are you kidding me? Even at this you nitpick? Really? what part of the word "Universalism" don't you agree with? The adherent meaning is that ALL will eventually come to this [salvation by being born again, etc], All that are included in the Human Race.
There would not be a need for hundreds of denominations since the "truth" would be evident and universal.
Unfortunately this is not the case, all of Christianity is a mess when it comes to agreeing on anything.
Isn't that exactly what I just wrote? The difference with what I believe and universalism is that they believe in their hearts that all will be saved and I pray with my heart that all will be saved but I make no assumption regarding this. This prayer will not be answered however unless in is explicitly aligned with God's will and desire regarding salvation. That remains to be seen.
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Seedz
Guest
Assuming universalism is right, everyone will be saved, regardless of your prayers.
Assuming universalism is not true, then the only ones that will be saved are those that are born again, [however you get there that is a whole other debate].
The difference is that there is nothing you can do as far as saving people when it comes to universalism.
You must believe Gods word to settle the matter. There is no reason to doubt, no honest reason.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
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Seedz
Guest
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Seedz
Guest
There are tons of reasons to doubt. Unfortunately a lot of these reasons have been covered up and swept under the rug.
If you start reading and looking you will find plenty of reasons.
No that is simply self deception. Gods word is absolutely true and never creates doubt except in the righteousness of man.
Ro 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
For the cause of Christ
Roger
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Seedz
Guest
Let me ask you something; how do you know that everything that you find in the bible is completely and utterly true? Are you going to quote another passage to prove it?