God sending People He made and loves to the lake of fire.

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tourist

tourist

Senior Member
#221
Mar 13, 2014
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#221
rstrats said:
Adstar,
re: "Also i see you dodged responding to the clear words of Jesus about some being sent into everlasting fire to suffer everlasting punishment.."


And what does scripture say the punishment is? Except for the devil as the KJV has it and maybe the beast and false prophet as other translations have it, I'm not aware of any scripture that specifies it. Although it does say that the wages of sin is death.
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The bible does not state specifically of anyone that will be sent to the lake of fire but only states the cause of such a person being sent and confined there eternally. Even then it is unclear whether or not a person in in the lake of fire remains conscience but is simply burned up and eventually extinguished.
 
J

justpassinthrough

Senior Member
#222
Oct 31, 2015
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#222
Chuckyz2 said:
But everyone sins!!!
John 12:47 Jesus said He doesn't judge those who rejects His words. That He is going to save them.
47 And if anyone hears My words and does not believe, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world.
Do you just ignore Jesus to make your theology ok?
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9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9
 
notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#223
May 17, 2013
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#223
As much as God loves people God hates sin.

Except you be cleansed by the blood of Christ you cannot enter in before God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#224
Jul 18, 2017
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#224
tourist said:
The bible does not state specifically of anyone that will be sent to the lake of fire but only states the cause of such a person being sent and confined there eternally. Even then it is unclear whether or not a person in in the lake of fire remains conscience but is simply burned up and eventually extinguished.
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God does not desire that anyone should be cast into the Lake of Fire. But you are mistaken if you think that once there it is not an eternal conscious torment. There is absolutely no basis for Annihilationism -- that people will be burned up and extinguished.
 
tourist

tourist

Senior Member
#225
Mar 13, 2014
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#225
Nehemiah6 said:
God does not desire that anyone should be cast into the Lake of Fire. But you are mistaken if you think that once there it is not an eternal conscious torment. There is absolutely no basis for Annihilationism -- that people will be burned up and extinguished.
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I will do some research on this as I believe that I have come across passages that imply that once extinguished consciousness ceases. I also wonder that if it is God's will and desire that none shall perish but all have everlasting life then sending someone into the lake of fire would be a contradiction and contrary to God's stated will and desire regarding this.
 
Jimbone

Jimbone

Senior Member
#226
Aug 22, 2014
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#226
Chuckyz2 said:
If I was God and my kid decided to go there, I would definitely think that my kid had a mental problem, Or some other issue. But being God who can do anything, and especially a loving merciful God, I would just heal that kid. It wouldn't even be questionable. Any God that would cast his own child into eternal punishment is a evil God. Period. Not gonna happen. : )
You really should think that through.
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Wow so God has to conform to your judgment and morality? I'm sorry but you don't get to do that, you don't get to just declare "if God's like this He is evil". I'm sorry but the arrogance of this comment was a bit much to me. God is just, He is also infinite in all His attributes, so His standard of justice is just as big in scope as His love and mercy are. There is only one logical way that these 3 attributes can exist together and save men. The cross and the sacrifice of the sinless lamb of God. None of these make God evil, when a man is saved God is glorified in His mercy, when a man is guilty God is glorified in His perfect justice, for you to declare that if God punishes wickedness, He is evil just does not make any sense to me at all. I also am not saying you can't have and/or share your opinions, it's just absolute moral judgements on the character of God like that come off way harsh and unbelievably arrogant to me, even though that was not your intention I'm sure. You say " Any God that would cast his own child into eternal punishment is a evil God. Period." I agree, good thing that's not the case with the true God. God brought this child into the world and was rejected by the child, He then took His time and taught us right from wrong with the law and the promise of redemption, then He actually took on human flesh, stepped into time and space and condemned sin in the flesh. He then laid down His life, took the full wrath of God due to us for our transgressions so that we might believe and take the free gift of reconciliation with Him. He could do any more to save us from our ignorant rebellion. This is not just "god casting His children in the fire", He had done EVERYTHING to keep us from that, in love He says "Come.", so I feel your whole point is based on a false view of who God is and is totally ignoring everything else but your feelings. . Just because you can't stomach the natural consequences of sin does not make God evil for punishing it.
 
S

Seedz

Guest
#228
#228
Chuckyz2 said:
Propitiation is defined conciliate or reconcile.
Reunite?
He is the reuniting of all people back to the Father.
It says He "Is" Not He could be.
What it means when define is that He will reconcile all people.
What you want it to mean doesn't change what it actually says.
You would be better off claiming it is a mistaken translation.
But it isn't.
Hope this helps
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If there was universal salvation, the churches would not be in business.
 
HeRoseFromTheDead

HeRoseFromTheDead

Senior Member
#229
Sep 4, 2012
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#229
Chuckyz2 said:
Heb 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour that he
by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

That does say every man, right?
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Actually, no. It says πᾶς. In context it means all who believe. Here's another verse using the same word πᾶς.

If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister; Colossians 1:23​
​
Is chuckycheez's most excellent exegesis consistent to say that the gospel was preached to every creature under heaven?
 
HeRoseFromTheDead

HeRoseFromTheDead

Senior Member
#230
Sep 4, 2012
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#230
Chuckyz2 said:
You should. If you are a human being you saved. Its simply stated over and over and over again.

1 Tim 4:9-11
9 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation.
10 For therefore we both labour and suffer
reproach,because we trust in the living God,
who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that
believe.

It does say all men, right?
Let me guess. You don't believe that writer?
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Actually, no, It says πᾶς, which many times is used to refer to a group as a whole, but not every individual within that group. Which Paul does in this case and then qualifies it with "particularly those who believe".
 
tourist

tourist

Senior Member
#231
Mar 13, 2014
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#231
Seedz said:
If there was universal salvation, the churches would not be in business.
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Yes they would very much be in business because even if there was universal salvation that could not be assumed and it would still require the sacrifice of the shed blood of Jesus dying on the cross for the remission of sins and for the Holy Spirit to enter in us to guide us on our repentance and spiritual journey. Unless one is born again they will be no means enter into the kingdom of heaven. The question regarding universalism is that will everyone indeed eventually be born again?
 
S

Seedz

Guest
#232
#232
tourist said:
Yes they would very much be in business because even if there was universal salvation that could not be assumed and it would still require the sacrifice of the shed blood of Jesus dying on the cross for the remission of sins and for the Holy Spirit to enter in us to guide us on our repentance and spiritual journey. Unless one is born again they will be no means enter into the kingdom of heaven. The question regarding universalism is that will everyone indeed eventually be born again?
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Haha, are you kidding me? Even at this you nitpick? Really? what part of the word "Universalism" don't you agree with? The adherent meaning is that ALL will eventually come to this [salvation by being born again, etc], All that are included in the Human Race.

There would not be a need for hundreds of denominations since the "truth" would be evident and universal.

Unfortunately this is not the case, all of Christianity is a mess when it comes to agreeing on anything.
 
tourist

tourist

Senior Member
#233
Mar 13, 2014
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#233
Seedz said:
Haha, are you kidding me? Even at this you nitpick? Really? what part of the word "Universalism" don't you agree with? The adherent meaning is that ALL will eventually come to this [salvation by being born again, etc], All that are included in the Human Race.

There would not be a need for hundreds of denominations since the "truth" would be evident and universal.

Unfortunately this is not the case, all of Christianity is a mess when it comes to agreeing on anything.
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Isn't that exactly what I just wrote? The difference with what I believe and universalism is that they believe in their hearts that all will be saved and I pray with my heart that all will be saved but I make no assumption regarding this. This prayer will not be answered however unless in is explicitly aligned with God's will and desire regarding salvation. That remains to be seen.
 
S

Seedz

Guest
#234
#234
tourist said:
Isn't that exactly what I just wrote? The difference with what I believe and universalism is that they believe in their hearts that all will be saved and I pray with my heart that all will be saved but I make no assumption regarding this. This prayer will not be answered however unless in is explicitly aligned with God's will and desire regarding salvation. That remains to be seen.
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Assuming universalism is right, everyone will be saved, regardless of your prayers.

Assuming universalism is not true, then the only ones that will be saved are those that are born again, [however you get there that is a whole other debate].

The difference is that there is nothing you can do as far as saving people when it comes to universalism.
 
tourist

tourist

Senior Member
#235
Mar 13, 2014
42,654
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#235
Seedz said:
Assuming universalism is right, everyone will be saved, regardless of your prayers.

Assuming universalism is not true, then the only ones that will be saved are those that are born again, [however you get there that is a whole other debate].

The difference is that there is nothing you can do as far as saving people when it comes to universalism.
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I have said a prayer for your salvation as well.
 
notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#236
May 17, 2013
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#236
Seedz said:
Assuming universalism is right, everyone will be saved, regardless of your prayers.

Assuming universalism is not true, then the only ones that will be saved are those that are born again, [however you get there that is a whole other debate].

The difference is that there is nothing you can do as far as saving people when it comes to universalism.
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You must believe Gods word to settle the matter. There is no reason to doubt, no honest reason.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
S

Seedz

Guest
#238
#238
notuptome said:
You must believe Gods word to settle the matter. There is no reason to doubt, no honest reason.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
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There are tons of reasons to doubt. Unfortunately a lot of these reasons have been covered up and swept under the rug.

If you start reading and looking you will find plenty of reasons.
 
notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#239
May 17, 2013
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#239
Seedz said:
There are tons of reasons to doubt. Unfortunately a lot of these reasons have been covered up and swept under the rug.

If you start reading and looking you will find plenty of reasons.
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No that is simply self deception. Gods word is absolutely true and never creates doubt except in the righteousness of man.

Ro 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,


For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
S

Seedz

Guest
#240
#240
notuptome said:
No that is simply self deception. Gods word is absolutely true and never creates doubt except in the righteousness of man.

Ro 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,


For the cause of Christ
Roger
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Let me ask you something; how do you know that everything that you find in the bible is completely and utterly true? Are you going to quote another passage to prove it?
 
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