YOKE OF BONDAGE

Studyman · Jul 13, 2018

Jesus instructed everyone that if they truly loved Him, they would follow His set of rules. I know this teaching isn't popular with the religions of the world, but the scriptures certainly teach that we should not follow the "set of rules" from our own mind, instead, be renewed in the mind to follow another set of Rules created beforehand that we should walk in them.

What rules? or as Paul says it, "what Law"? The Law of Work's? So what is the Law of Works set forth for remission of sins? Love God with all your heart? Don't steal? Don't commit adultery?

No, the "Law of Works" Paul is speaking to,that was set forth for the remission of sins, was the Levitical Priesthood "Law of works" that the Jews had centered their religion around.

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, (Part of the Law of Works) and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

But the Law of faith, Love God with all your heart, and the Law and Prophets which teach us how to do this, and the Law of faith, Love your neighbor as yourself, and the Law and Prophets which also teach us how to do this, is what Paul taught, and what we will be judged by.

13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

"circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping in Commandments of God.

This is why Jesus said the Law and Prophets are here as long as we are here. This is why Paul believes "ALL THINGS written in the Law and Prophets.

But a religion which transgresses the Commandments of God by their own religious traditions can't accept this. And even though Jesus pleads with them.

Jer. 6:16 Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls.

They refuse to come to the Light. "But they said, We will not walk therein." As it is to this day.

God's "Set of rules" was a stumbling block for the Mainstream Preachers of Christ's time, and it is a stumbling block to the Mainstream Preachers of today. IMO.

MessageOfTheCross · Jul 14, 2018

Most Christians don't give Satan control on purpose who are being oppressed (2 Timothy 2:24-26). Sin gives Satan the legal right to hold man captive. Yet, considering that Jesus atoned for all sin at the Cross, past, present, and future, at least for those who will believe, how can Satan hold Christians in bondage? How can a born-again Christian be freed from the bondage of Satan?

If it's not faith in Christ and what He did for us at the Cross, then it's faith that God will not recognize. The apostle says, "Christ shall profit you nothing" (Gal. 5:2). He says, "Christ is become of no effect unto you" (Gal. 5:4). That's the terrible problem that affixes itself to most Christians. They are trusting in things other than the Cross, making Christ of no effect. This guarantees spiritual failure. In fact, when the believer do this, they fall from Grace. In other words, the goodness of God, which, in effect, is the Grace of God, can no longer be extended to such Christians. The end result of such a position is bleak indeed!

Justification delivers us from the penalty of sin, while sanctification delivers us from the power of sin.

Our battle is not against acts of sin, but the fight is to keep our faith in who Christ is and what He did on the Cross, so we stay in His death, burial, and resurrection and are, therefore, victorious. That is the only way we are triumphant in Christ (II Cor. 2:14). And that is the only way He can work in us both to will (change our desires), and to do (give us the power of the Holy Spirit) (Phil. 2:13), so we can overcome sin. This is the only way believers can yield themselves as God’s servants (slaves) of obedience instead of being slaves to sin unto death (Rom. 6:16).

...and have no confidence in the flesh (in things other than the Cross, which alone is the guarantee of Salvation and Victory. Philippians 3:3

Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you (instead of softening or modifying this seemingly harsh Doctrine, He instead intensified it by declaring it indispensable to Salvation), Except you eat the Flesh of the Son of Man, and drink His Blood, you have no life in you (this terminology addresses the Cross; Christ would give Himself on the Cross for the Salvation of mankind; to fully believe in Him and what He did for us is what He means here; however, this Verse tells us the degree of believing that is required; it refers to the Cross being the total Object of one's belief; failing that, there is no Life in you) John 6:53

JSM

mailmandan · Jul 14, 2018

Since I recently came across this article on Romans 2:13 and Romans 2:13 was mentioned in this thread and I often hear this verse mentioned by SDA's and other misguided teachers of the law, along with Roman Catholics and Mormons who ALL "add" their particular blend of law keeping/works to salvation by grace through faith and pervert the gospel, I decided to post it below.

Does Romans 2:13 mean that we are justified before God by keeping the Law?
by Matt Slick
3/16/13

"For there is no partiality with God. 12 For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law; and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law; 13 for not the hearers of the Law are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified. 14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness, and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus,” (Rom. 2:11-16).

Verse 13 is often used by people (Roman Catholics, Mormons, etc.) to say that we must keep the Law (along with faith in Jesus) to be saved. But is it possible to be saved by keeping the Law combined with one's faith? Let's take a look.

Here's the overall context. Paul had been talking about all people who practiced sin, including the Gentiles (Rom. 1:18-31). But, he was also addressing the Jews about their judging and condemning of the Gentiles and how they were hypocrites for judging them while they themselves did not keep the Law (Rom. 2:17-24). He points them to their own Law, standard of judgment, in Rom. 2:26-29. They were boasting that they could keep the Law. This is why Paul had told them that the doers of the Law are just before God (v. 13).

The standard they wanted to keep was the Law. So, keep the Law. Keep all of it, but if you don’t, you’re in trouble. It is the doers of the Law who are justified before God (Rom. 2:13). He tells them that the Gentiles who didn't have the Law according to the knowledge of the Jews were instinctively keeping the Law (v. 14) and will be judged accordingly. How much more the Jews?

Paul was showing the self-righteous Jews who judged the Gentiles that they were not able to keep a perfect standard, yet the presumably thought they could. Actually, they were hypocrites. This is why Paul tells us in the very next chapter, in Romans 3:28, that we are justified by faith apart from the works of the Law - which includes the Law of loving God (Deut. 6:5), and loving your neighbor (Lev. 19:18). No one is able to keep the Law. If you fail even once, then you become guilty of it all.

James 2:10, “For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.”
Gal. 3:10, “For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, to perform them.”

The Jews (and anyone else) can be justified before God by keeping the Law, but he or she has to be perfect in doing it. A person can’t fail even once - ever (James 2:10); otherwise, they are condemned (Gal. 3:10). But since all fail, that is why we have the gospel that tells us Jesus kept the Law perfectly (1 Pet. 2:22), and that we can be justified before God by faith in Him (Romans 4:3, 5; 5:1; John 1:12; 3:16).

https://carm.org/romans2-11-16

I find it very interesting that even though these movements (SDA's and other misguided teachers of the law/Roman Catholics/Mormons etc..) "add" law keeping/works to the gospel have a "difference in style," they are still the same in substance -- "works based" false gospel.

Studyman · Jul 14, 2018

I'm sure Mr. Slick meant well, and like you, are convinced you know what you are talking about. But Matt never mentions even once the context of Romans chapter 2.

1 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.

How did Paul get to the "therefore"? Was it not a continuation of Romans 1? Who was doing the judging? Was it not those who claimed to "know God"?

Rom. 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

These are the preachers of Paul's time. This is the Mainstream Religion Paul contended with and was talking about in Romans 2. Why didn't your preacher even mention this very important fact?

Instead he says: "The standard they wanted to keep was the Law".

That is so deceitful, so dishonest and so false. Yet it is the very foundation of your religious doctrines and the reason why I spend so much time trying to warn my Brothers on this forum to "take heed" of these man made religious traditions of the world.

The entire sermon is a deception which can be easily exposed with scripture.

Luke 1:
5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

Matt says "No one is able to keep the Law", yet God says differently about every person of Faith in the Bible. This example in Luke is just one.

I have asked this question many times but the mainstream preachers on this forum refuse to answer.

Why did Zechariahs know Jesus when He came, and Paul and the Pharisees didn't? Why did Abraham know Jesus when He came, but Sodom didn't? Why did Caleb believe God's Word's, but his religious brothers didn't?

Paul answers this question in Romans 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

From the very beginning God has shown those, who trust Him enough to seek Him, what the serpent will say to the "woman" (church, bride, etc.)

"You shall surely not die". (You are saved) You can still live in the garden of Eden and guide your own footsteps. You shouldn't listen to God and follow His instructions because He doesn't want you to be "FREE". God's instructions are a burden to you, Jesus freed you from them.

And the serpent uses parts of God's Word's, disguises itself as "Apostles of Christ" and "ministers of righteousness" to deceive us into believing these lies.

Paul was showing the self-righteous Jews who judged the Gentiles that they were not able to keep a perfect standard

Click to expand...

This is such a falsehood. Paul was saying no such thing.

9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

Had they Glorified God with obedience like Zechariahs did, they would have known Jesus when He came, and went to Him in repentance, instead of continuing in their own version of "Works of the Law" (blood of goats sprinkled on the alter by Levites) for remission of sins.

I could ask you the same question Paul asked the Mainstream Preachers of his time?

3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?

Are you justified for Transgressing the Commandments of God by your own religious traditions while they are not?

Endoscopy · Jul 14, 2018

mailmandan said:

John is not mixing law and grace through faith or teaching salvation by "grace plus law, faith plus works," but that's what SDA's and other misguided teachers of the law teach. Hmmm

*The saints not only keep the faith of Jesus/their faith in Jesus, but also keep (Greek word tereo - watch over, guard, observe, keep intact) the commandments of God. John is not teaching salvation by works through sinless, perfect obedience to the 10 commandments. Modern day Judaizers and misguided teachers of the law pervert the gospel and have a different spin on what it means to "keep His commandments." It's not hard to find these types on Christian Chat and other Bible discussion forums.

It's interesting that the whole teaching of SDA's regarding the Mark of the Beast centers on Revelation 14:12 which says that those who have the "commandments of God" do not receive the mark. SDA's claim that this passage is referring to the Ten Commandments, and Sunday-keepers cannot be keeping the Ten Commandments because the fourth commandment instructs worship on Saturday.

The best way to intepret the meaning of John's writings is to compare them with his other writings of John. The Greek word for "commandments" in Revelation 14:12 is "entole" which means "an order, command, charge, precept, injunction." The same word is used repeatedly in the writings of John to refer to the instructions of Jesus. *John uses an entirely different Greek word in his writings when he refers to the Ten Commandments: "nomas." For example:

Did not Moses give you the law {nomos}, and [yet] none of you keepeth the law {nomos}? Why go ye about to kill me? (John 7:19; Jesus is referring to the 6th commandment "Thou shalt not kill" - Exodus 20:13)

According to John, the number one commandment {entolae} of Jesus to the Apostles was not Sabbath-worship, but for them to love one another: A new commandment {entolae} I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. (John 13:34)

This is my commandment {entolae}, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. (John 15:12)

Notice how John refers to the "commandments" of God in his letter: By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments {entolas}. For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments {entolas}; and His commandments {entolae} are not burdensome. (1 John 5:2-3)

Earlier in the same letter John tells us exactly what the "commandments" of God are:

Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, [then] have we confidence toward God. And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His [God's] commandments {entolas} and do the things that are pleasing in His sight. This is His [God's] commandment {entolae}, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He [God] commanded {entolaen} us. The one who keeps His [God's] commandments {entolas} abides in Him.. (1 John 3:21-24)

Since the old covenant has been made obsolete, does this leave us with no moral direction? Absolutely not. The old covenant has been made obsolete to "put legally into place" the New Covenant (2 Corinthians 3:6-9; Hebrews 8:6-13). The life of discipleship flows out of the New Command, to love one another as He loved us (John 13:34), which Paul refers to as the "law of Christ" (Galatians 6:2). Love fulfills the law (Romans 13:8-10). Out of this single command comes other commands, including references for the moral aspect of 9 of the 10 commandments which are reiterated under the New Covenant, yet the command to keep the Sabbath day is not binding on Christians under the New Covenant.

1. You shall have no other gods before Me. - Acts 14:15
2. You shall make no idols. - 1 John 5:21
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain. - James 5:12
4. Keep the Sabbath day holy. - Not binding on the Church - Colossians 2:16-17
5. Honor your father and your mother. - Ephesians 6:1-2
6. You shall not murder. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 John 3:15
7. You shall not commit adultery. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
8. You shall not steal. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 4:28
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. - Romans 13:9-10; Colossians 3:9-10
10. You shall not covet. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 5:3

*The Roman Catholic church also errors by mixing observing the Commandments with salvation by grace through faith and teaches salvation by works.

"The Council of Trent teaches that salvation comes through the Ten Commandments; the Second Vatican Council confirms: "The bishops, successors of the apostles, receive from the Lord . . . the mission of teaching all peoples, and of preaching the Gospel to every creature, so that all men may attain salvation through faith, Baptism and the observance of the Commandments"(CCC # 2068).

You should avoid the KJV when quoting scripture. The modern translation of the KJV commandment "Thou shalt not kill." is "You shall not murder." there is a difference between 1611 kill and modern kill. In 1611 kill meant deliberately murdering. Not what it means today. You can kill someone in an accident that is not your fault. More information about KJV follows.

KJV Issues

https://ehrmanblog.org/problems-with-the-language-of-the-king-james-version/

https://newrepublic.com/article/107222/making-it-new

http://www.bibletexts.com/topics/kjv.htm

http://www.equip.org/article/is-your-modern-translation-corrupt/

http://www.hickoryhammockbaptist.org/kjva1.html

https://www.gotquestions.org/different-gospel.html

The Use and Misuse of the King James Bible: An Interview with Mark Ward
Jonathan Petersen
March 13, 2018

https://www.biblegateway.com/blog/2...pJobID=1362532267&spReportId=MTM2MjUzMjI2NwS2

posthuman · Jul 14, 2018

Dan_473 said:

i think what is being expressed by this phrase could be summed up by this one word: "anyone who believes in Him will never be put to shame" -- quoted in Romans 10:11 and with reference to a score of sayings in the prophets.

this is law, in the sense of natural law: it is impossible that it be broken, because the One who ordained it is the One who upholds it, and He is forever faithful, even when we are faithless.

as a poet has said, "the law is the law and everybody on earth obeys it" -- saying 'law' not as a regulation to be judged under, but as immutable truth.

posthuman · Jul 14, 2018

Dan_473 said:

of course there are people who think and preach that this enigmatic phrase 'the law of faith' is one poorly-defined group of the shattered pieces of Moses' Law that they presume to break apart and place the believer under the judgement of.

i've decided it is of little to no profit whatsoever to even entertain such applesauce anymore. it's decidedly not in agreement with the text, as i read it, but wholly contrary to it in many respects which have already been explored ad nauseum on this forum to no effect in converting them from unbelief.

Dan_473 · Jul 14, 2018

Studyman said:

The site demands that I break this post into some parts.

I was talking specifically about the idea of whether Paul when he says the law of faith means a set of rules or the principal of faith. Paul begins the letter to Romans by talking about how getting right with God is all about faith from start to finish. A righteous person lives by faith. For I shame not the gospel, for it is the virtue of God into health to each man that believeth, to the Jew first, and to the Greek. For the rightwiseness of God is showed in it, of faith into faith, as it is written, For a just man liveth of faith.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans1&version=WYC. to say then that Paul is advocating merely setting aside The Works of one set of rules and instead doing the works or activities of a different set of rules to me seem strange. It doesn't seem to follow. so when we come to Romans 3: 27, to me it's obvious that the law of Faith refers to principal of faith. This is fully in keeping with the Greek word which is translated law, because in the Greek it does not have a definite article with it. this indicates it most likely refers to the idea of principle, rather than a set of rules. the whole idea is that no one's activities are suitable for making a person right with God. so instead, it's based on believing.
this brings us to the idea of keeping Jesus' Commandments because we love him. every Christian is in favor of this, because everyone would agree that we ought to do what Jesus tells us to do, and telling someone to do something would be a commandment. of course some people will say that they want to follow Jesus and do what he says, but they don't really. But I'm not talking about them. I'm talking about people who are serious about following Christ. the only difference is come about because people disagree on of the things that Jesus talked about, which of them does he want us today to keep. there was actually a broad-spectrum to choose from. Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to his disciples, 2 saying, “The scribes and the Pharisees sat on Moses’ seat. 3 All things therefore whatever they tell you to observe, observe and do, but don’t do their works; for they say, and don’t do.

Dan_473 · Jul 14, 2018

Studyman said:

4 For they bind heavy burdens that are grievous to be borne, and lay them on men’s shoulders; but they themselves will not lift a finger to help them. 5 But all their works they do to be seen by men. They make their phylacteries[a]broad, enlarge the fringes of their garments, 6 and love the place of honor at feasts, the best seats in the synagogues, 7 the salutations in the marketplaces, and to be called ‘Rabbi, Rabbi’ by men. 8 But don’t you be called ‘Rabbi,’ for one is your teacher, the Christ, and all of you are brothers. 9 Call no man on the earth your father, for one is your Father, he who is in heaven. 10 Neither be called masters, for one is your master, the Christ. 11 But he who is greatest among you will be your servant. 12 Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

13 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you devour widows’ houses, and as a pretense you make long prayers. Therefore you will receive greater condemnation.

14 “But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! Because you shut up the Kingdom of Heaven against men; for you don’t enter in yourselves, neither do you allow those who are entering in to enter.[c]15 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel around by sea and land to make one proselyte; and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much of a son of Gehenna[d] as yourselves.

16 “Woe to you, you blind guides, who say, ‘Whoever swears by the temple, it is nothing; but whoever swears by the gold of the temple, he is obligated.’ 17 You blind fools! For which is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifies the gold?18 ‘Whoever swears by the altar, it is nothing; but whoever swears by the gift that is on it, he is obligated?’19 You blind fools! For which is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifies the gift? 20 He therefore who swears by the altar, swears by it, and by everything on it. 21 He who swears by the temple, swears by it, and by him who was living[e] in it.22 He who swears by heaven, swears by the throne of God, and by him who sits on it.

23 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint, dill, and cumin,[f] and have left undone the weightier matters of the law: justice, mercy, and faith. But you ought to have done these, and not to have left the other undone.24 You blind guides, who strain out a gnat, and swallow a camel!

25 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and unrighteousness.[g]26 You blind Pharisee, first clean the inside of the cup and of the platter, that its outside may become clean also.

27 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitened tombs, which outwardly appear beautiful, but inwardly are full of dead men’s bones, and of all uncleanness.28 Even so you also outwardly appear righteous to men, but inwardly you are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.

29 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you build the tombs of the prophets, and decorate the tombs of the righteous,30 and say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our fathers, we wouldn’t have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.’31 Therefore you testify to yourselves that you are children of those who killed the prophets.

Dan_473 · Jul 14, 2018

Studyman said:

32 Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers. 33 You serpents, you offspring of vipers, how will you escape the judgment of Gehenna[h] ?34 Therefore behold, I send to you prophets, wise men, and scribes. Some of them you will kill and crucify; and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city; 35 that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zachariah son of Barachiah, whom you killed between the sanctuary and the altar. 36 Most certainly I tell you, all these things will come upon this generation. this is one end of the spectrum basically Jesus says to do everything written in the law. tithing, even down to the smallest bit. every commandment from the greatest to the least. then there's “Ask, and it will be given you. Seek, and you will find. Knock, and it will be opened for you. 8 For everyone who asks receives. He who seeks finds. To him who knocks it will be opened. 9 Or who is there among you, who, if his son asks him for bread, will give him a stone? 10 Or if he asks for a fish, who will give him a serpent? 11 If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him!12 Therefore whatever you desire for men to do to you, you shall also do to them; for this is the law and the prophets.

13 “Enter in by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many are those who enter in by it.14 How[a] narrow is the gate, and restricted is the way that leads to life! Few are those who find it.

15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravening wolves. 16 By their fruits you will know them. Do you gather grapes from thorns, or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree produces good fruit; but the corrupt tree produces evil fruit.18 A good tree can’t produce evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree produce good fruit. 19 Every tree that doesn’t grow good fruit is cut down, and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.21 Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven; but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will tell me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in your name, in your name cast out demons, and in your name do many mighty works?’ 23 Then I will tell them, ‘I never knew you. Depart from me, you who work iniquity.’

Dan_473 · Jul 14, 2018

Studyman said:

24 “Everyone therefore who hears these words of mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man, who built his house on a rock. 25 The rain came down, the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat on that house; and it didn’t fall, for it was founded on the rock. 26 Everyone who hears these words of mine, and doesn’t do them will be like a foolish man, who built his house on the sand. 27 The rain came down, the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat on that house; and it fell—and great was its fall.” something very different going on here. Because Jesus is saying that the one thing that actually sums up the law and the prophets, that is the goal of what the law and the prophets were teaching is basically do unto others. in my opinion, this is more of a lifestyle than a particular rule. It does not require any particular action, or to refrain from any particular action. so somewhere within that Spectrum most people choose a set of rules to live by. Micah 6: 5. O my people, keep in mind now what was designed by Balak, king of Moab, and the answer which Balaam, son of Beor, gave him; the events, from Shittim to Gilgal, so that you may be certain of the upright acts of the Lord. 6. With what am I to come before the Lord and go with bent head before the high God? am I to come before him with burned offerings, with young oxen a year old? 7. Will the Lord be pleased with thousands of sheep or with ten thousand rivers of oil? am I to give my first child for my wrongdoing, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul? 8. He has made clear to you, O man, what is good; and what is desired from you by the Lord; only doing what is right, and loving mercy, and walking without pride before your God. 9. The voice of the Lord is crying out to the town: Give ear, you tribes and the meeting of the town. 10. Am I to let the stores of the evil-doer go out of my memory, and the short measure, which is cursed? 11. Is it possible for me to let wrong scales and the bag of false weights go without punishment? 12. For its men of wealth are cruel, and its people have said what is not true, and their tongue is false in their mouth. 13. So I have made a start with your punishment; I have made you waste because of your sins. 14. You will have food, but not enough; your shame will be ever with you: you will get your goods moved, but you will not take them away safely; and what you do take away I will give to the sword. 15. You will put in seed, but you will not get in the grain; you will be crushing olives, but your bodies will not be rubbed with the oil; and you will get in the grapes, but you will have no wine. 16. For you have kept the laws of Omri and all the works of the family of Ahab, and you have been guided by their designs: so that I might make you a cause of wonder and your people a cause of hisses; and the shame of my people will be on you. both extremes of rulesets can be supported with the scriptures, with words used by the word made flesh. based on our previous conversations, I believe the first commandment in your rule set based on the order they occur in the scriptures is let there be light.

Dan_473 · Jul 14, 2018

Studyman said:

this sounds to me very much like the principal of faith. in the current post you mentioned loving God with all your heart, true a good idea. and yes the law and the prophets teach us how to do this, by basically doing unto others. and yes the law and the prophets are still here. Their goal is teaching us to do onto others. That's the goal of the law and the prophets. does this lead to any absolute rules? As far as activities go? I would say no. There will always be times places, exceptions wear something must be done that breaks the letter of the law but keeps the spirit of doing unto others. Now we, brothers, as Isaac was, are children of promise. 29 But as then, he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so also it is now. 30 However what does the Scripture say? “Throw out the servant and her son, for the son of the servant will not inherit with the son of the free woman.”[c] 31 So then, brothers, we are not children of a servant, but of the free woman. Stand firm therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and don’t be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. 2 Behold, I, Paul, tell you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will profit you nothing. 3 Yes, I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. 4 You are alienated from Christ, you who desire to be justified by the law. You have fallen away from grace. 5 For we, through the Spirit, by faith wait for the hope of righteousness. 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision amounts to anything, nor uncircumcision, but faith working through love. 7 You were running well! Who interfered with you that you should not obey the truth? 8 This persuasion is not from him who calls you. 9 A little yeast grows through the whole lump. 10 I have confidence toward you in the Lord that you will think no other way. But he who troubles you will bear his judgment, whoever he is. so yes let us follow God's set of rules and find rest for our souls.

Dan_473 · Jul 14, 2018

Studyman said:

Jeremiah 6: 5. Up! let us go up by night, and send destruction on her great houses. 6. For this is what the Lord of armies has said: Let trees be cut down and an earthwork be placed against Jerusalem: sorrow on the false town! inside her there is nothing but cruel ways. 7. As the spring keeps its waters cold, so she keeps her evil in her: the sound of cruel and violent behaviour is in her; before me at all times are disease and wounds. 8. Undergo teaching, O Jerusalem, or my soul will be turned away from you, and I will make you a waste, an unpeopled land. 9. This is what the Lord of armies has said: Everything will be taken from the rest of Israel as the last grapes are taken from the vine; let your hand be turned to the small branches, like one pulling off grapes. 10. To whom am I to give word, witnessing so that they may take note? see, their ears are stopped, and they are not able to give attention: see, the word of the Lord has been a cause of shame to them, they have no delight in it. 11. For this reason I am full of the wrath of the Lord, I am tired of keeping it in: may it be let loose on the children in the street, and on the band of the young men together: for even the husband with his wife will be taken, the old man with him who is full of days. 12. And their houses will be handed over to others, their fields and their wives together: for my hand will be stretched out against the people of the land, says the Lord. 13. For from the least of them even to the greatest, everyone is given up to getting money; from the prophet even to the priest, everyone is working deceit. 14. And they have made little of the wounds of my people, saying, Peace, peace; when there is no peace. 15. Let them be put to shame because they have done disgusting things. They had no shame, they were not able to become red with shame: so they will come down with those who are falling: when my punishment comes on them, they will be made low, says the Lord. 16. This is what the Lord has said: Take your place looking out on the ways; make search for the old roads, saying, Where is the good way? and go in it that you may have rest for your souls. But they said, We will not go in it. 17. And I put watchmen over you, saying, Give attention to the sound of the horn; but they said, We will not give attention.

Dan_473 · Jul 14, 2018

Studyman said:

So as I said my recent posts were all actually part of one post, they should all be put together to make one long post. here's the end of it

18. So then, give ear, you nations, and ... 19. Give ear, O earth: see, I will make evil come on this people, even the fruit of their thoughts, because they have not given attention to my words, and they would have nothing to do with my law. 20. To what purpose does sweet perfume come to me from Sheba, and spices from a far country? your burned offerings give me no pleasure, your offerings of beasts are not pleasing to me. 21. For this reason the Lord has said, See, I will put stones in the way of this people: and the fathers and the sons together will go falling over them; the neighbour and his friend will come to destruction. 22. The Lord has said, See, a people is coming from the north country, a great nation will be put in motion from the inmost parts of the earth. 23. Bows and spears are in their hands; they are cruel and have no mercy; their voice is like the thunder of the sea, and they go on horses; everyone in his place like men going to the fight, against you, O daughter of Zion. 24. The news of it has come to our ears; our hands have become feeble: trouble has come on us and pain, like the pain of a woman in childbirth. 25. Go not out into the field or by the way; for there is the sword of the attacker, and fear on every side. God set of rules, or I think a better way to put it God's lifestyle is clear in the scriptures. and that's the law faith.

gb9 · Jul 14, 2018

Studyman said:

I'm sure Mr. Slick meant well, and like you, are convinced you know what you are talking about. But Matt never mentions even once the context of Romans chapter 2.

1 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.

How did Paul get to the "therefore"? Was it not a continuation of Romans 1? Who was doing the judging? Was it not those who claimed to "know God"?

Rom. 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

These are the preachers of Paul's time. This is the Mainstream Religion Paul contended with and was talking about in Romans 2. Why didn't your preacher even mention this very important fact?

Instead he says: "The standard they wanted to keep was the Law".

That is so deceitful, so dishonest and so false. Yet it is the very foundation of your religious doctrines and the reason why I spend so much time trying to warn my Brothers on this forum to "take heed" of these man made religious traditions of the world.

The entire sermon is a deception which can be easily exposed with scripture.

Luke 1:
5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

Matt says "No one is able to keep the Law", yet God says differently about every person of Faith in the Bible. This example in Luke is just one.

I have asked this question many times but the mainstream preachers on this forum refuse to answer.

Why did Zechariahs know Jesus when He came, and Paul and the Pharisees didn't? Why did Abraham know Jesus when He came, but Sodom didn't? Why did Caleb believe God's Word's, but his religious brothers didn't?

Paul answers this question in Romans 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

From the very beginning God has shown those, who trust Him enough to seek Him, what the serpent will say to the "woman" (church, bride, etc.)

"You shall surely not die". (You are saved) You can still live in the garden of Eden and guide your own footsteps. You shouldn't listen to God and follow His instructions because He doesn't want you to be "FREE". God's instructions are a burden to you, Jesus freed you from them.

And the serpent uses parts of God's Word's, disguises itself as "Apostles of Christ" and "ministers of righteousness" to deceive us into believing these lies.

This is such a falsehood. Paul was saying no such thing.

9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

Had they Glorified God with obedience like Zechariahs did, they would have known Jesus when He came, and went to Him in repentance, instead of continuing in their own version of "Works of the Law" (blood of goats sprinkled on the alter by Levites) for remission of sins.

I could ask you the same question Paul asked the Mainstream Preachers of his time?

3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?

Are you justified for Transgressing the Commandments of God by your own religious traditions while they are not?

as usual, you conveniently left out Romans 1 v. 16, 17, where Paul states that salvation is to those who believe , and the just shall live by faith. nothing about law and Sabbath keeping.

just more deceit and playing games with God's Word.

you know, I find it very ironic that you decry the Pharisees so much, yet you do the same thing they did- take Scripture and build a fake , man made religion based on it, but NOT it.

so, still waiting on you to whip up a source that defines words with the meaning you say they , because the greek language does not.

gb9 · Jul 14, 2018

gb9 said:

oh, and I think I have a pretty good idea why you have yet to post a translation that defines words as you do. maybe i'll say my idea soon.

Deade · Jul 14, 2018

Many say we are already in God’s new covenant that was prophesied in the OT and in Acts/Hebrews.

Heb. 8:7-13 “For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.”

Jer. 31:31-34 “Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”

Do you see the direct link between Jerimiah and Hebrews? What about the parallels in Acts and Joel?

Acts 2:16-18 “But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:”

First a time frame in Joel: Joel 2:1 “Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand;”

Next, it speaks of a restoration after the Day of the Lord. Then, we are given a picture of the new covenant: Joel 2:28, 29 “And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.”

What can we conclude from this? This is not the New Testament covenant God was talking about. Not yet.

Studyman · Jul 14, 2018

Dan_473 said:

No Dan, their goal is to teach "HOW" to do unto others and "HOW" to Love God. Through them we are to "Prove" what is that "perfect Will of God". through them we learn doctrine, we are corrected, and receive "instruction in Righteousness". That is why they are here.

We are free to eat of lots of trees Dan. There are just few things we should not do. Does God tell us everything we "CAN" do? No Dan, because we are free to do many things. He instructs us against things we "CAN'T" do. The list is much shorter.

Only if you believe that Jesus didn't know what He was doing when He inspired the Law and Prophet's in the first place, can you believe a statement such as this. I find that the Law and Prophets spell out God's Perfect Salvation plan. I don't believe you will be placed in a position where you will have to break God's Law to keep it. And you have no Scriptural evidence to support such an assertion. The Word actually teach us the opposite. If you are God's then He has already provided an escape for any temptation to disobey Him (SIN). You just have to believe on Him to see it.

Jesus never broke a Law of God to help someone. He was accused of doing this by the Mainstream preachers that wanted Him dead, but I don't believe them.

You see, I don't believe I was ever entangled in the Instructions and Commandments of God before I came to His Light. You do it seems, and many claim this as well. But for me, the burden and yoke of bondage was the deception of believing a lie.

The Jews also believed a lie about God. They claimed to be "Abrahams Children", they claimed God as their Father. But they didn't know Him. You and others imply that this was because they were "Following the Letter of the Law". But this teaching is not true. Those who believe this "Lie" are held in bondage. Trapped, snared by satan to do ITS will. Those who believe in their heart that it was obedience to God Commandments that caused the Jews to be rejected by the Christ are destined to teach against it in many ways.

Rom. 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

And as the serpent demonstrated, it doesn't care about the trees God said we are free to eat of, it is only concerned with convincing man to reject God's "Shall not's".

But had Eve just done the simple task, just obeyed this easy instruction and used the Armor of God and the "Perfect" escape He created for her in this temptation, she would have been like Abraham, Noah, Caleb, Zechariahs and many more. Had she just said: "Let me council with my husband" or "let me pray and ask God first". It was there for her as it is for all of us. And she would have been blessed for choosing to trust God and not her own vision or the religious sounding voices in the world, just as all other examples of Faith were blessed.

That is part of the lesson of the Law and Prophets. That is part of "HOW" to Love God, and "HOW" to share this Love with others.

I don't want to be free from God's Righteousness and create my own as the Mainstream Preachers of Christ's time did. I love God's Commandment. Jesus is living proof that His Lifestyle was "acceptable to God". I understand why we must "Submit to God". Why we must "Deny our self" and follow Him, not religious voices in the World.

God's instruction is a burden to you? Who gave you that idea?

Studyman · Jul 14, 2018

Dan_473 said:

24 “Everyone therefore who hears these words of mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man, who built his house on a rock. 25 The rain came down, the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat on that house; and it didn’t fall, for it was founded on the rock. 26 Everyone who hears these words of mine, and doesn’t do them will be like a foolish man, who built his house on the sand. 27 The rain came down, the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat on that house; and it fell—and great was its fall.” something very different going on here. Because Jesus is saying that the one thing that actually sums up the law and the prophets, that is the goal of what the law and the prophets were teaching is basically do unto others. in my opinion, this is more of a lifestyle than a particular rule. It does not require any particular action, or to refrain from any particular action. so somewhere within that Spectrum most people choose a set of rules to live by. Micah 6: 5. O my people, keep in mind now what was designed by Balak, king of Moab, and the answer which Balaam, son of Beor, gave him; the events, from Shittim to Gilgal, so that you may be certain of the upright acts of the Lord. 6. With what am I to come before the Lord and go with bent head before the high God? am I to come before him with burned offerings, with young oxen a year old? 7. Will the Lord be pleased with thousands of sheep or with ten thousand rivers of oil? am I to give my first child for my wrongdoing, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul? 8. He has made clear to you, O man, what is good; and what is desired from you by the Lord; only doing what is right, and loving mercy, and walking without pride before your God. 9. The voice of the Lord is crying out to the town: Give ear, you tribes and the meeting of the town. 10. Am I to let the stores of the evil-doer go out of my memory, and the short measure, which is cursed? 11. Is it possible for me to let wrong scales and the bag of false weights go without punishment? 12. For its men of wealth are cruel, and its people have said what is not true, and their tongue is false in their mouth. 13. So I have made a start with your punishment; I have made you waste because of your sins. 14. You will have food, but not enough; your shame will be ever with you: you will get your goods moved, but you will not take them away safely; and what you do take away I will give to the sword. 15. You will put in seed, but you will not get in the grain; you will be crushing olives, but your bodies will not be rubbed with the oil; and you will get in the grapes, but you will have no wine. 16. For you have kept the laws of Omri and all the works of the family of Ahab, and you have been guided by their designs: so that I might make you a cause of wonder and your people a cause of hisses; and the shame of my people will be on you. both extremes of rulesets can be supported with the scriptures, with words used by the word made flesh. based on our previous conversations, I believe the first commandment in your rule set based on the order they occur in the scriptures is let there be light.

I think the highlighted is a perfect summary of the Law and Prophets. How, and more importantly, WHY would I attempt to add or take away from that.

I believe in the Word which became Flesh and I am not ashamed to follow His instructions even if others refuse.

Studyman · Jul 14, 2018

Dan_473 said:

32 Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers. 33 You serpents, you offspring of vipers, how will you escape the judgment of Gehenna[h] ?34 Therefore behold, I send to you prophets, wise men, and scribes. Some of them you will kill and crucify; and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city; 35 that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zachariah son of Barachiah, whom you killed between the sanctuary and the altar. 36 Most certainly I tell you, all these things will come upon this generation. this is one end of the spectrum basically Jesus says to do everything written in the law. tithing, even down to the smallest bit. every commandment from the greatest to the least. then there's “Ask, and it will be given you. Seek, and you will find. Knock, and it will be opened for you. 8 For everyone who asks receives. He who seeks finds. To him who knocks it will be opened. 9 Or who is there among you, who, if his son asks him for bread, will give him a stone? 10 Or if he asks for a fish, who will give him a serpent? 11 If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him!12 Therefore whatever you desire for men to do to you, you shall also do to them; for this is the law and the prophets.

13 “Enter in by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many are those who enter in by it.14 How[a] narrow is the gate, and restricted is the way that leads to life! Few are those who find it.

15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravening wolves. 16 By their fruits you will know them. Do you gather grapes from thorns, or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree produces good fruit; but the corrupt tree produces evil fruit.18 A good tree can’t produce evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree produce good fruit. 19 Every tree that doesn’t grow good fruit is cut down, and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.21 Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven; but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will tell me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in your name, in your name cast out demons, and in your name do many mighty works?’ 23 Then I will tell them, ‘I never knew you. Depart from me, you who work iniquity.’

All great Word's inspired by the Word which became Flesh.

YOKE OF BONDAGE

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