What must I do to be saved

[Ralph-]

Again, there is no such thing as in the scriptures as “continue to believe” Your “continue to believe” is to be found nowhere in the scriptures

The necessity to continue to believe in order to be saved is very clear in scripture. Even traditional 'once saved always saved' says you have to continue to believe to be saved (or else you were never saved to begin with).

"1Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain (that is, if Christ has not really been raised from the dead-see vs.14, 17). "-1 Corinthians 15:1-2

24 "As for you, let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father."-1 John 2:24 (why's he telling this to people who only won't continue in Christ if they never really belonged to him?)

6 "...Christ was faithful as a Son over His house—whose house we are, if we hold fast our confidence and the boast of our hope firm until the end."-Hebrews 3:6 (think about the 'shelter' analogy I gave)

14 "For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end"-Hebrews 3:14

20 "...you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.22Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off."-Romans 11:20-22 (Remember, if you're traditional 'once saved always saved' you say real believers don't ever fall away-but Paul says they 'stand by faith'. That means they are saved, yet he's warning them to continue in faith or be cutoff.)

...and has nothing to do to get salvation.

It has everything to do with remaining saved. We have a whole book in the Bible about the Galatians and how they will not be heirs of eternal life if they abandon Christ for justification and go back to the law for justification. Paul said they must continue in their faith in Christ for justification and not fall away or they will no longer be heirs of the promises of eternal life made to Abraham.


I have more to say about all this but I have to go to work. We can talk in more depth as you respond to what I do post.

 

[Ralph-]

Yes. Joy is a fruit of the Holy Spirit. This is not the joy the Lord is referring to about the 2nd soil.

How do you know it's not the joy of the Lord in them?

When they found out that Jesus wasn't a lottery ticket but a Way of Life, they said no thanks.

So they NEVER had Jesus, and were NEVER a born again new creation. They didn't lose Salvation because they NEVER had it to begin with.

This is the famous circular reasoning of the 'once saved always saved' crowd I've been talking about: They didn't 'really' have the joy of the Lord in salvation because they fell away. That doesn't answer the question if real believers can fall away. You're using the question to answer the question. I see this in virtually every discussion about 'once saved always saved' I'm in.

 

[PennEd]

How do you know it's not the joy of the Lord in them?



This is the famous circular reasoning of the 'once saved always saved' crowd I've been talking about: They didn't 'really' have the joy of the Lord in salvation because they fell away. That doesn't answer the question if real believers can fall away. You're using the question to answer the question. I see this in virtually every discussion about 'once saved always saved' I'm in.

What are you talking about Ralph? How is NOT having Jesus circular reasoning?
Jesus says they didn't have Him.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Hear, believe, repent, confess, be baptised, obey, forgive, feed on the Word, partake of the Lords Supper upon the first day of the week in the assembly of christians, pray, try not to sin, remain faithful until you die.

2 Pet 20-21, Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation, For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man; but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. I believe that the wording of the 1611 King James bible to be the only source of reference for the truth where all scriptures harmonize without any contradictions. There are many versions that have left out some of the original scriptures and have changed the wording of some of the scriptures to reflect the necessity of a mans work to get eternal life. For example "Gal 2:16 - Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith ( OF CHRIST, has been changed IN CHRIST), Which makes it man's faith that justifies himself instead of Christ"s faith. The Greek interpretation of the word SAVED is A DELIVERANCE. All of the actions of man that you have stated will "deliver" (save) him here in his life in this world, but they are not the cause of his eternal deliverance.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

That was a very well summarized and articulated portion of Scripture, I agree that everything you said is Biblical. The only question that remains is, what role does God play in all of this. Is He passive in this, does He make the rules and then leave each person to navigate their way through life and hopefully they all make the right decision to obey and gain salvation.

This question has divided the Church, because you could use the scriptures to support both positions.

Do you realize when you take the position that God chooses who will be saved, you are also taking the position that God also "chooses" who will not be saved?

So let's take your position a step further …

It is now judgment day and the unbeliever is standing before God to give an account.

He (or she) can tell God "Well God, You did not choose me and I did exactly as You "willed" for me in my life. Therefore, you cannot consign me to the lake of fire because I did Your "will" for me in my life."

Romans 1:18-20 states that those who suppress the truth in unrighteousness are without excuse.

But you give the unbeliever and excuse for his/her behavior.

We (all mankind) are totally depraved because of the sin of Adam, and none of us are worthy of eternal life. I believe these people Paul is talking about, in Rom 1, not glorifying God, are children of God (that which is known of God ls manifest in them). 1 Cor 2:16 states that the natural man (not born again) can not know the things of God because they are spiritually discerned. These children of God were disobedient and were believing in themselves, and their own works, as do most of Gods children in this day and time.(Rom 1:25) Romans chapter 1 reflects God chastening his disobedient children. (Heb 12:6-8). God does not chasten those that are not his children (Psalms 73:5, Neither are they PLAGUED, Greek interpretation DIVINELY PUNISHED, like other men).

 

[justpassinthrough]

There are many scriptures which support the view that we don't decide to believe in Christ, but faith in Christ is a gift that God gives only to His elect.

This is not a doctrine from Christ.


16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16


again



30 And he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”

31 So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.”
Acts 16:30-31



Faith without the act of obedience is dead: dormant - incomplete.




JPT

 

[justpassinthrough]

We (all mankind) are totally depraved because of the sin of Adam, and none of us are worthy of eternal life. I believe these people Paul is talking about, in Rom 1, not glorifying God, are children of God (that which is known of God ls manifest in them). 1 Cor 2:16 states that the natural man (not born again) can not know the things of God because they are spiritually discerned. These children of God were disobedient and were believing in themselves, and their own works, as do most of Gods children in this day and time.(Rom 1:25) Romans chapter 1 reflects God chastening his disobedient children. (Heb 12:6-8). God does not chasten those that are not his children (Psalms 73:5, Neither are they PLAGUED, Greek interpretation DIVINELY PUNISHED, like other men).

God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; Romans 2:6-7


This is who will receive eternal life on the Day of Judgement:

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;

JPT

 

[ForestGreenCook]

No need to get into personal attacks. Anyone who distorts the Gospel is indeed deceived by Satan.

So let me answer your question, and in turn you should abandon your false Calvinistic ideas. The world in John 3:17 (as in John 3:16, or in 1 John 2:2, or many other Scriptures) means "the whole world".

οὐ γὰρ ἀπέστειλεν ὁ θεὸς τὸν υἱὸν αὐτοῦ εἰς τὸν κόσμον ἵνα κρίνῃ τὸν κόσμον ἀλλ' ἵνα σωθῇ ὁ κόσμος δι' αὐτοῦ

For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Strong's Concordance
kosmos: order, the world
Original Word: κόσμος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: kosmos
Phonetic Spelling: (kos'-mos)
Short Definition: the world, universe
Definition: the world, universe; worldly affairs; the inhabitants of the world; adornment.

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 2889: κόσμος

5. the inhabitants of the world: θέατρονἐγενήθημεν τῷ κόσμῳ καί ἀγγέλοις καίἀνθρώποις, 1 Corinthians 4:9 (Winers Grammar, 127 (121)); particularly the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human race (first so in Sap. (e. g.) :.. John 3:17; John 10:36; John 17:18; 1 John 4:9;...

Thayer's definition - 2889 Kosmos, 8) a) used of believers only, John 1:29, 3:16, 3:17, 6:33, 12:47, 1 Cor 4:9, 2 Cor 5:19.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Thayer's definition - 2889 Kosmos, 8) a) used of believers only, John 1:29, 3:16, 3:17, 6:33, 12:47, 1 Cor 4:9, 2 Cor 5:19.

Since I quoted from Thayer's, this is bogus.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; Romans 2:6-7


This is who will receive eternal life on the Day of Judgement:

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;

JPT

I believe that all scriptures harmonize without contradictions. If you believe that our good deeds are the reason we get eternal life, then, how do you make that harmonize with Eph 2:8-9? Eph 2:10 we ( those who have been quickened "born again" ) are his workmanship created in Christ Jesus unto good works, and being born again assures us of eternal life. Our good works is not the reason we get eternal life, but is the evidence that we already have eternal life.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Since I quoted from Thayer's, this is bogus.

It's evident that you did not read the entire definition.

 

[Ralph-]

What are you talking about Ralph? How is NOT having Jesus circular reasoning?
Jesus says they didn't have Him.

So I don't misunderstand what you're saying, where did Jesus say they didn't have Him?

 

[Ralph-]

so, in other words, you monitor their behavior, and if it suits you, them you allow them to attend your church.

Well, since I'm not a pastor I don't do that. But if I was a pastor and I found out that you were sleeping with your Father's wife, for example, I'd hold the door open for you to leave (1 Corinthians 5:1-2). And as a fellow congregant, I would have nothing to do with you (1 Corinthians 5:11) until you repented. But the church is so sure this is 'judging' (in every negative connotation of the word) if this is ever done. Paul didn't think so.

would not a much simpler solution be just to let everyone who wants to come in in, and then they can accept or reject what is being said.
personally, I think that many ( me being one ) would tell you to stick your arrogant , judgemental attitude somewhere I can't say on here, and leave , and find somewhere that actually cared about people.

Why didn't Paul 'care' about the guy sleeping with his Father's wife in 1 Corinthians 5?

 

[Ralph-]

Your continued reference to an unrelated passage of Scripture does not identify the sower in the parable of the sower.

What would be "fun" (to me) would be for you to let the words of Jesus stand with no input from you. Jesus does not need your help in interpreting the parable of the sower.

That may not be "fun" for you because you appear to hold yourself above the Lord Jesus Christ. Nothing but pride from your vain imagination. And since you like the epistle of 1 John so much, check out 1 John 2:16.





Respect from you?

I prefer to stand approved before God when it comes to rightly dividing the Word of Truth.





You're getting closer ...

I would say the "vessel specifically being used to sow" the seed (which you acknowledge we do not know) is the sower.

No need to go to another unrelated passage in order to bolster your pride in trying to identify that which remains unidentified in God's Word.





Right. That is not the point of the parable. That is why Jesus remained silent in that regard.





It is not meaningless, nor is it baseless, for me to strenuously implore that you not add to Scripture.





The point is the sower is sowing. You know the "vessel" who "does not even matter"? And who you agree we do not know "what vessel specifically is being used to sow"? That's the sower in the parable.

Like I said before you completely messed this one up.

The argument was suggested that the second type of soil did not represent a planting of the Father as evidenced by what was planted there being uprooted. I showed from the passage that it was not the evil one doing the sowing in the Parable. That's when you came in with your baseless, meaningless contention that Jesus did not say who planted the seed. Do you think it was the evil one sowing the seed in the Parable of the Sower? That's was the point you completely missed.

 

[OneFaith]

2 Pet 20-21, Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation, For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man; but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. I believe that the wording of the 1611 King James bible to be the only source of reference for the truth where all scriptures harmonize without any contradictions. There are many versions that have left out some of the original scriptures and have changed the wording of some of the scriptures to reflect the necessity of a mans work to get eternal life. For example "Gal 2:16 - Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith ( OF CHRIST, has been changed IN CHRIST), Which makes it man's faith that justifies himself instead of Christ"s faith. The Greek interpretation of the word SAVED is A DELIVERANCE. All of the actions of man that you have stated will "deliver" (save) him here in his life in this world, but they are not the cause of his eternal deliverance.

Interpretation of words is not all we have to go on. The physical representations of the old testament explain the spiritual meanings of the new testament. In the old testament a statue of a snake representing Jesus coming in the likeness of sinful man was lifted up in the desert. So that all who sinned and got a disease could come to it and be healed. It was put there for all who were afflicted, but those who did not go to utilise died.

In the same way, only Christ's blood saves from sin. And He was lifted up on the cross- for all to come to the cross and be saved. And even though it is for all, only those who come to the cross will be saved. This is not earning it, it is receiving it. God could choose to hand deliver to each person, but no, He decides they must come to Him with a humble and obedient heart. Do not get tripped up about that. Obedience cannot earn salvation- therefore God can have us obey all He wants and grace will still be a gift. He only gives grace to those who obey in such ways- hear, believe, repent, confess, baptized, remain faithful until death.

 

[justpassinthrough]

If you believe that our good deeds are the reason we get eternal life, then, how do you make that harmonize with Eph 2:8-9? Eph 2:10 we ( those who have been quickened "born again" )

First of all I am not the author of Romans 2:7, which says -

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;

Is this the truth or a lie?

It’s one or the other.

It’s the conclusion and end for this age of which God will judge each of us according to our deeds.

Please understand this very clear statement.

God will judge is and render to us according to our deeds.

Our deeds.

What He will render or give to us is either eternal life or indignation and wrath.

This is when we receive the salvation of our soul or not.

• receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls. 1 Peter 1:9

JPT

 

[seed_time_harvest]

No such thing.
Once you lose your salvation it's gone, baby. Gone. No one is allowed to re-crucify Christ. God doesn't allow that.

Would you agree with this post concerning losing your salvation?

Ephesians 4:30
King James Version

3o.)And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.


Hebrews 12:23-24
King James Version(KJV)

23.)To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to GOD the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

24.)And to JESUS the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.


Romans 4:1-2
King James Version(KJV)

1.)What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?

2.)For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.


John 6:63
King James Version(KJV)

63.)It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Interpretation of words is not all we have to go on. The physical representations of the old testament explain the spiritual meanings of the new testament. In the old testament a statue of a snake representing Jesus coming in the likeness of sinful man was lifted up in the desert. So that all who sinned and got a disease could come to it and be healed. It was put there for all who were afflicted, but those who did not go to utilise died.

In the same way, only Christ's blood saves from sin. And He was lifted up on the cross- for all to come to the cross and be saved. And even though it is for all, only those who come to the cross will be saved. This is not earning it, it is receiving it. God could choose to hand deliver to each person, but no, He decides they must come to Him with a humble and obedient heart. Do not get tripped up about that. Obedience cannot earn salvation- therefore God can have us obey all He wants and grace will still be a gift. He only gives grace to those who obey in such ways- hear, believe, repent, confess, baptized, remain faithful until death.

In 1 Cor 2:16 says " But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God; for they are foolishness unto him; neither can he know them,because they are spiritually discerned. Are you telling me that the natural man can hear spiritual things, believe spiritual things, repent because he is convicted by spiritual things, confess because he understands spiritual commandments, gets baptized and remains faithful unto his death, all because he received things of the Spirit of God? Is eternal salvation a free gift if we have to hear, repent,confess, be baptized? Would this not make man able to cause himself to be saved eternally? The Greek interpretation of "salvation" is "a deliverance". The born again person, if he follows God's commandments, as you have stated, can cause himself to be delivered (saved) from his former disobedience as he lives his life here, but obeying God's commandments can not save you eternally. You can never make the scriptures harmonize unless you keep the salvation (deliverance) scriptures in their context.

 

[notuptome]

In 1 Cor 2:16 says " But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God; for they are foolishness unto him; neither can he know them,because they are spiritually discerned. Are you telling me that the natural man can hear spiritual things, believe spiritual things, repent because he is convicted by spiritual things, confess because he understands spiritual commandments, gets baptized and remains faithful unto his death, all because he received things of the Spirit of God? Is eternal salvation a free gift if we have to hear, repent,confess, be baptized? Would this not make man able to cause himself to be saved eternally? The Greek interpretation of "salvation" is "a deliverance". The born again person, if he follows God's commandments, as you have stated, can cause himself to be delivered (saved) from his former disobedience as he lives his life here, but obeying God's commandments can not save you eternally. You can never make the scriptures harmonize unless you keep the salvation (deliverance) scriptures in their context.

Before you can be delivered your sin must be atoned for by the blood of Christ.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[ForestGreenCook]

First of all I am not the author of Romans 2:7, which says -

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;

Is this the truth or a lie?

It’s one or the other.

It’s the conclusion and end for this age of which God will judge each of us according to our deeds.

Please understand this very clear statement.

God will judge is and render to us according to our deeds.

Our deeds.

What He will render or give to us is either eternal life or indignation and wrath.

This is when we receive the salvation of our soul or not.

• receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls. 1 Peter 1:9

JPT

Please understand this very clear statement, Eph 2:5, Even when we were DEAD IN SIN (as a natural man, as described in 1 Cor 2:16) hath quickened (born again of the Spirit) us together with Christ. It is the gift of God, verse 9, not of works (repenting, confessing, being baptized, etc), lest any man should boast. Are you boasting about your obedience, by your good works? The natural man has no good works. Good deeds is an evidence that the natural man has been quickened by God and therefore is destined for eternal life Our good deeds is not the cause of us getting eternal life, but the evidence that we already have eternal life.