What must I do to be saved
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yes as long as we aknowlege that Jesus will have the final decision regarding who gets in heaven and who ends up in the lake of fire.
I thought it was
Leviticus 19:15-18
15 ‘You shall do no injustice in judgment. You shall not be partial to the poor, nor honor the person of the mighty. In righteousness you shall judge your neighbor. 16 You shall not go about as a talebearer among your people; nor shall you take a stand against the life of your neighbor: I am the Lord.
17 You shall not hate your brother in your heart. You shall surely rebuke your neighbor, and not bear sin because of him. 18 You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the children of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the Lord.
You say
So it seems to me that to love at a higher level was already in place and commanded in the OT
Some say that maybe the higher level as you quote in post in 58 is to love your enemies (not saying you said this).
So
In fact that was also in the OT as well
Exodus 23:4
4 “If you meet your enemy’s ox or his donkey going astray, you shall surely bring it back to him again.
Proverbs 25:21-22
21 If your enemy is hungry, give him bread to eat;
And if he is thirsty, give him water to drink;
22 For so you will heap coals of fire on his head,
And the Lord will reward you.
25:21, 22 The words of Jesus in Matt. 5:43–48 have direct ties to these verses. Coals of fire speaks of God’s judgment (see Ps. 120:4; 140:10); the idea is that an act of kindness to your enemy may cause him or her to feel ashamed. This is just one way to overcome evil with good (see Rom. 12:20). (NKJV study notes)
So for me I do not think Jesus is taking love to a higher level but is reinforcing the true intent of the law which Israel had lost or ignored or twisted to meet their own agenda.
So Jesus was not teaching anything new under the sun.
Just reiterating that all those under the sun are loved by God.
Matthew 5:43-48
Love Your Enemies
(Luke 6:27, 28, 32–36)
43 “You have heard that it was said, You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, 45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors do so? 48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.
I would suggest bitterness also. This happened to me for a while, I was bitter against what God had allowed in my life.
What kind of remark is that? We all agree on this, so thus is a personal attack? Must be.
No argument here, but be careful with your OSAS doctrine: That it does not become a license to unchecked sin.
The whole counsel of God concerning the parable of the sower is sufficient for me.
Here is the whole counsel of God from the Lord Jesus Christ Himself concerning the parable of the sower (which, apparently, is insufficient for you):
Matthew 13:
3 And he spake many things unto them in parables, saying, Behold, a sower went forth to sow;
4 And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up:
5 Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth:
6 And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.
7 And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprung up, and choked them:
8 But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold.
…
18 Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.
19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.
20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;
21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.
22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.
23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.
Note: sower is not identified.Mark 4:
3 Hearken; Behold, there went out a sower to sow:
4 And it came to pass, as he sowed, some fell by the way side, and the fowls of the air came and devoured it up.
5 And some fell on stony ground, where it had not much earth; and immediately it sprang up, because it had no depth of earth:
6 But when the sun was up, it was scorched; and because it had no root, it withered away.
7 And some fell among thorns, and the thorns grew up, and choked it, and it yielded no fruit.
8 And other fell on good ground, and did yield fruit that sprang up and increased; and brought forth, some thirty, and some sixty, and some an hundred.
…
14 The sower soweth the word.
15 And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.
16 And these are they likewise which are sown on stony ground; who, when they have heard the word, immediately receive it with gladness;
17 And have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended.
18 And these are they which are sown among thorns; such as hear the word,
19 And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.
20 And these are they which are sown on good ground; such as hear the word, and receive it, and bring forth fruit, some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some an hundred.
Note: sower is not identified.Luke 8:
5 A sower went out to sow his seed: and as he sowed, some fell by the way side; and it was trodden down, and the fowls of the air devoured it.
6 And some fell upon a rock; and as soon as it was sprung up, it withered away, because it lacked moisture.
7 And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprang up with it, and choked it.
8 And other fell on good ground, and sprang up, and bare fruit an hundredfold. And when he had said these things, he cried, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
…
11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.
12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
14 And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.
15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.
Note: sower is not identified.It is about the Word of God. You go outside the context of the passage. You believe Jesus, in error, left out the identity of the sower and you believe you correct His error. Shameful.Ralph said:
You add what you want. Kinda like what Eve did back in Gen 3. You'd think we'd learn by now that it is best to stick with what is written. period. That is what Jesus did when He walked the earth. And He is our example. I'll follow Him and His example and I'll not run to folly with you.Ralph said:
As I have told you, I have honored your request in your Post #406 that we discuss passages of Scripture without "projecting … predetermined … beliefs".Ralph said:
And you continuously inferring that my concern is over your doctrine as opposed to your handling of Scripture is getting old.
All I want from you, Ralph, is that you not add to Scripture and that you allow the Lord Jesus Christ's interpretation of the parable of the sower to stand without your addition to it.
Again, pointing out your mishandling of Scripture is not indicative of any contentiousness on my part.Ralph said:
You continuing to reject the interpretation of the parable from the Lord Jesus Christ Himself is very revealing as to your acts of contention in this thread.
Your concern for your doctrine has blinded you to your mishandling of Scripture.
If you cannot handle the Word of God without changing it, you have a problem with the Author.
https://christianchat.com/goto/post?id=3650641
I would suggest bitterness also. This happened to me for a while, I was bitter against what God had allowed in my life.
What kind of remark is that? We all agree on this, so thus is a personal attack? Must be.
No argument here, but be careful with your OSAS doctrine: That it does not become a license to unchecked sin.
My comment was not an attack..its to remind people tgat WE are not in a position nor given AUTHORITY to judge others hearts..only God can do that...
R
Ralph-
Guest
The term I like to use is 'forfeit'. The one who returns to unbelief is forfeiting the inheritance he will get through faith in Christ. That's what the Galatians were doing--going away from Christ for justification and back to the law for justification. Paul warned them that doing that would make them slaves again to the law. And that slaves have no part in the inheritance, only the sons do. They are forfeiting their right to the inheritance as sons by becoming slaves who have no part in the inheritance. That's why they must remain sons through continued faith in Christ for justification.
Sometimes it's best to let go of something and wait for God to reveal to us in His time.
There have been times in my life where the answer came years later. God is so faithful to His Word and He does work within our hearts to reveal His Truth.
R
Ralph-
Guest
You challenged me and I met your challenge. I know being corrected by the scriptures is hard to handle. You thought you had something on me and you didn't. Not fun, is it? Just own up and move on and stop protecting your pride.
I won't lose respect for you for being wrong. I lose respect for you because you can not admit you were wrong. I promise you will have my complete and total respect if you can admit you were wrong in your baseless and meaningless contention.
Read it again and see who is sowing in the hearts of those who believe:
"It is the Spirit who testifies (sows the seed), because the Spirit is the truth.
9If we receive the testimony of men, the testimony of God (the Holy Spirit) is greater
10The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony (of God the Holy Spirit) in himself "-1 John 5:8-10
This is how we know it is God sowing his truth in the Parable of the Sower (through whatever vessel he is using). What we do not know is what vessel specifically is being used to sow the testimony of God in these soils. The vessel does not even matter--that makes your contention meaningless. And the scriptures above show your contention to not only be meaningless, but also baseless.
The point is, it's God doing the sowing, so mailman's attempt to make the growth in soil #2 not a planting of God (because it got uprooted) is baseless. He was projecting his 'once saved always saved' bias on the passage and decided that since the 2nd type of soil did not endure in believing that it can not represent the truly saved person but a fake planting of the evil one. A convenient mixing of the use of the 'planting' metaphor in the Bible did not prove his point.
R
Ralph-
Guest
Which I won't do. Only God knows. Only God passes judgment on that.
What I do is use my God given right and privilege to consider who I will trust as a real believer in Christ and who I will not. And the criteria the Bible says to use for that is how they act. Their fruit. Especially in how they respond to reconciliation when their is a dispute. If they refuse to settle it with an attitude of forgiveness and peace Christ says to let him be to you as a tax collector or a pagan. Whether they really are an unbeliever or not we do not know for sure. But if they act like one we are to consider them one. This is right in our Bibles, folks. Be a Berean. Check it out for yourself. Matthew 18:15-17.
Yes only Jesus has that authority and right to judge.
He truly knows the heart and on that he will judge.
I find it very sad indeed that people are quick to judge based on what they see and judge according what a believer should be doing.
The reason it saddens me is because they take no time or effort to come alongside someone who is struggling and needs help, but they just write them off.
The reality is that in the church there a lot of wounded Christians.
New belivers with a lot of baggage.
Older belivers with a lot of baggage still carried over.
It saddens me that believers shoot the wounded.
We are called to be doctors and nurses to the wounded in Jesus.
Broken hearts need healing, broken people need healing.
Let us not be quick to judge but let us be quick to love
trust in what sense? are you going into business with them? are you taking them into your home? are you investing money with them?
Yeah I'm working through something like that right now. I can see how it can derail some peoples' faith.
so, in other words, you monitor their behavior, and if it suits you, them you allow them to attend your church.
ok, so, I go to a large church. are we supposed to interview every one who walks through the doors to see if they meet certain criteria , then let them in?? well, that would certainly take a long time would it not? some may not be able to stand in line that long.
would not a much simpler solution be just to let everyone who wants to come in in, and then they can accept or reject what is being said.
personally, I think that many ( me being one ) would tell you to stick your arrogant , judgemental attitude somewhere I can't say on here, and leave , and find somewhere that actually cared about people.
Hi everyone,
This thread really breaks my heart.
The question posted does not but the responses can do so.
In a sense the question is "What must I do in order to be saved?
What did Jesus say, what did Paul say?
Believe in him.
Jesus said that he must go back to the Father so that the Holy Spirit must come to convict the world of sin, that sin being unbelief of Jesus.
Paul said
Romans 10:9-13
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
That is what we need to do to be saved.
Maybe we need to reverse the question posted.
If a person is saved, is a child of the Father why are they not walking as a child?
Do they infact believe they are his child.
Do they know the are secure, accepted and significant?
That he loves us with an everlasting love.
This thread really breaks my heart.
The question posted does not but the responses can do so.
In a sense the question is "What must I do in order to be saved?
What did Jesus say, what did Paul say?
Believe in him.
Jesus said that he must go back to the Father so that the Holy Spirit must come to convict the world of sin, that sin being unbelief of Jesus.
Paul said
Romans 10:9-13
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
That is what we need to do to be saved.
Maybe we need to reverse the question posted.
If a person is saved, is a child of the Father why are they not walking as a child?
Do they infact believe they are his child.
Do they know the are secure, accepted and significant?
That he loves us with an everlasting love.
I get what you are saying.
I think for me I never lost my faith but felt he had lost faith in me and rejected me because I was not perfect.
My big issue was my gambling problem along with other things.
The truth is that our identity is in Jesus and what he has done for us.
To reverse it is to say it's not enough.
That was my point when I said we all agree on that. I don't speculate on another's salvation.
