Speaking in tongues

[garee]

You are making this up. Nothing in the chapter suggests that praying in an unknown tongue is an activity that produces anything fruitful in the Christian life.

Romans 8 says that we are adopted sons of God. We are able to call God Abba Father. Why would we want to approach Him hiding behind a vail of no understanding what we pray?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

I would agree . I see it more like chanting making noise without meaning. For instance hail Mary full of grace, hail Mary full of grace, on and on.... hypnotizing chant.

Its not the repetition that is vain but the manner. God desires we cry out in prayer and supplication to Him, again and again like a child in need. Like on a 10 minute trip; how much further, how much further, reputationally ?

He knows what we need before we ask and is watching to see if we walk together as two in agreement . One manner not many .

But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.After "this manner" therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Mathew 6:7-9

 

[Besor600]

The gift of tongues is not something you can simply acquire it doesn't work like that. I don't know why your neighborhood insists on acquiring it but while you can ask for the gift sometimes God just doesn't give it to you because that is not what he has called you for. Just as every body part has it's own function we who are in the body are made to function is a certain way, no one person can do it all.
As far as superiority goes in my opinion no gift is superior to the other they simply function differently

1 Corinthians 12: 14 Yes, the body has many different parts, not just one part. 15 If the foot says, “I am not a part of the body because I am not a hand,” that does not make it any less a part of the body. 16 And if the ear says, “I am not part of the body because I am not an eye,” would that make it any less a part of the body? 17 If the whole body were an eye, how would you hear? Or if your whole body were an ear, how would you smell anything?

God dispenses gifts depending on what he has called us to do, but there is nothing wrong in asking for what you don't already have.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

1 Corinthians 12: 14 Yes, the body has many different parts, not just one part. 15 If the foot says, “I am not a part of the body because I am not a hand,” that does not make it any less a part of the body. 16 And if the ear says, “I am not part of the body because I am not an eye,” would that make it any less a part of the body? 17 If the whole body were an eye, how would you hear? Or if your whole body were an ear, how would you smell anything?

God dispenses gifts depending on what he has called us to do, but there is nothing wrong in asking for what you don't already have.

agreed

 

[notuptome]

that's right. ignore what I said about whether or not you can possibly know if my prayers are frutiful or unfrutiful

we can all see right through you. even your cessationst in arms friends here, can see you have just deflected what I said, made up some blame game nonsense and then tried to say I convinced myself of something

grow up and try to actually respond to what I said instead of pretending you found it funny and then throwing some Roger the Dodger handmade excuses into the mix

again... do you know if my prayers are fruitful or unfruitful?

the ONLY answer is OF COURSE NOT

you have no more proof of what you say then I have proof you have bat ears and fly around at night

I'm not ignoring your question. I'm simply giving you what scripture teaches on the subject. Gods word says clearly that a prayer in an unknown tongue is unfruitful. You wish to declare that God is wrong on the subject.

I do not need to judge the effectiveness of your prayers. Gods word has already judged and I am not superior to Gods word. Even if I wished to attribute merit to you I cannot because of what God has already said on the matter.

I would love to have you provide some evidence from Gods word that I am wrong. It is very difficult to this matter becoming personal and I am trying to stick to Gods word and not judge your on a personal level.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[7seasrekeyed]

I'm not ignoring your question. I'm simply giving you what scripture teaches on the subject. Gods word says clearly that a prayer in an unknown tongue is unfruitful. You wish to declare that God is wrong on the subject.

I do not need to judge the effectiveness of your prayers. Gods word has already judged and I am not superior to Gods word. Even if I wished to attribute merit to you I cannot because of what God has already said on the matter.

I would love to have you provide some evidence from Gods word that I am wrong. It is very difficult to this matter becoming personal and I am trying to stick to Gods word and not judge your on a personal level.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

listen...that was not really a question because there is no way you could answer what I asked regarding how fruitful or not my prayers are in a truthful manner other than by saying no you cannot and could not know

do you think we are all stupid here Roger?

you CANNOT judge my prayers. period

and who said I only pray in tongues? I said way back I often know what I am praying about and that I switch to English

I have been at this 'tongues' a long time...and I did not grow up in a church where they are practiced...for that matter they spoke against it

however, I sought God on the matter after I studied it and at the age of 18 God blessed me with that gift and I have experienced several others as well

you ARE judging me on a personal level when you try to hold up my prayers as some kind thing to point to that illustrate, according to your personal agenda, that tongues are nothing but blabbery

You wish to declare that God is wrong on the subject.

is this my turn to LOL? you have put YOUR words here and appear to try and convince others I have declared God wrong

again, another example of how untruthful you are actually being

this is what you said to me

You are making this up. Nothing in the chapter suggests that praying in an unknown tongue is an activity that produces anything fruitful in the Christian life.

you basically say I am making something up...and then you go on to say that my prayer life has no fruit if I pray in the spirit

while you are busy spinning your little 'white lies', we all can see how you manipulate and try to laugh things off after you insult people personally

you have done it to me mulitple times over the time I have been a member here and you have done it mulitple times to others ...this thread is filled with your twisting of what people say

no is fooled Roger except maybe you thinking we cannot see through your manipulations

you are not a teacher and certainly not an expert on the original languages. you actually have no experience in the matter of tongues and mock those who do have that gift. it is not different than someone who does not believe in God's gift of salavation.

you have simply chosen to disbelieve and because of that, your understanding is darkened on the matter and what makes it worse for you, is your attacks on people whose beliefs are consistent with scritpure

many months ago, you actually went so far as to say that people in tongues were speaking by a demonic spirit.

that is where you have actually taken your desire to besmirch those who do speak in tongues

and you interpret the Bible the say way...from the tower of Babel on...in fact, probably Genesis also

 

[7seasrekeyed]

I would love to have you provide some evidence from Gods word that I am wrong. It is very difficult to this matter becoming personal and I am trying to stick to Gods word and not judge your on a personal level.

in plain language

that is hogwash. you have no such desire and you do not want anything proven regarding tongues

mulitple threads, each one filled with scripture...more so then this one actually, and directed right straight to YOU that speak to tongues and the other gifts and their use, are UTTERLY and COMPLETELY scorned by you

in fact, anyone who actually concedes and offers to you what has been offered mulitple times, is wasting their time

this thread is just a platform for you to spew your hatred of all things tongues while you put forth some absurd formula for why the tower of Babel illustrates God's disgust for people who speak in tongues

you are hopelessly unable to comprehend and I truly hope no one hands you anymore of the word of God for you to disassemble and mock

 

[7seasrekeyed]

I'm done responding to you Roger

I would hope others judge for themself whether or not they wish to continue entertaining you

 

[garee]

1 Corinthians 12: 14 Yes, the body has many different parts, not just one part. 15 If the foot says, “I am not a part of the body because I am not a hand,” that does not make it any less a part of the body. 16 And if the ear says, “I am not part of the body because I am not an eye,” would that make it any less a part of the body? 17 If the whole body were an eye, how would you hear? Or if your whole body were an ear, how would you smell anything?

God dispenses gifts depending on what he has called us to do, but there is nothing wrong in asking for what you don't already have.

Yes if it is still available.

 

[notuptome]

listen...that was not really a question because there is no way you could answer what I asked regarding how fruitful or not my prayers are in a truthful manner other than by saying no you cannot and could not know

do you think we are all stupid here Roger?

you CANNOT judge my prayers. period

and who said I only pray in tongues? I said way back I often know what I am praying about and that I switch to English

I have been at this 'tongues' a long time...and I did not grow up in a church where they are practiced...for that matter they spoke against it

however, I sought God on the matter after I studied it and at the age of 18 God blessed me with that gift and I have experienced several others as well

you ARE judging me on a personal level when you try to hold up my prayers as some kind thing to point to that illustrate, according to your personal agenda, that tongues are nothing but blabbery



is this my turn to LOL? you have put YOUR words here and appear to try and convince others I have declared God wrong

again, another example of how untruthful you are actually being

this is what you said to me



you basically say I am making something up...and then you go on to say that my prayer life has no fruit if I pray in the spirit

while you are busy spinning your little 'white lies', we all can see how you manipulate and try to laugh things off after you insult people personally

you have done it to me mulitple times over the time I have been a member here and you have done it mulitple times to others ...this thread is filled with your twisting of what people say

no is fooled Roger except maybe you thinking we cannot see through your manipulations

you are not a teacher and certainly not an expert on the original languages. you actually have no experience in the matter of tongues and mock those who do have that gift. it is not different than someone who does not believe in God's gift of salavation.

you have simply chosen to disbelieve and because of that, your understanding is darkened on the matter and what makes it worse for you, is your attacks on people whose beliefs are consistent with scritpure

many months ago, you actually went so far as to say that people in tongues were speaking by a demonic spirit.

that is where you have actually taken your desire to besmirch those who do speak in tongues

and you interpret the Bible the say way...from the tower of Babel on...in fact, probably Genesis also

Oh come on you are the one making all this personal. I have given you Gods word.

I'm not besmirching anyone I'm only giving scriptural evidence that contradicts the erroneous teaching that is extant in the modern church regarding tongues.

I do not believe that Christians can speak under the influence of a demonic spirit. Paul seems to say that men can speak in their human spirit but that is not to be taken as a demonic spirit.

I repeat that most Pentecostal people have a correct soteriology and are saved. Like every group there are a few that do not but by far most do.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

in plain language

that is hogwash. you have no such desire and you do not want anything proven regarding tongues

mulitple threads, each one filled with scripture...more so then this one actually, and directed right straight to YOU that speak to tongues and the other gifts and their use, are UTTERLY and COMPLETELY scorned by you

in fact, anyone who actually concedes and offers to you what has been offered mulitple times, is wasting their time

this thread is just a platform for you to spew your hatred of all things tongues while you put forth some absurd formula for why the tower of Babel illustrates God's disgust for people who speak in tongues

you are hopelessly unable to comprehend and I truly hope no one hands you anymore of the word of God for you to disassemble and mock

1Co 13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[7seasrekeyed]

here are some of Roger's comments over the months to prove what I have said above. links provided to ensure truthfulness

I spent a little time to find a few quotes from Roger in months gone past to illustrate how he connects tongues to demons and from there to those who speak in tongues

his comments are rife with personal interpretations and I went back pretty far simply to show he has been at it a long time

the demonic comments are in other threads but its time consuming to wade through them so I just posted the first one I found

without prejudice, but to back up what I said earlier and why I have decided to no longer to respond to him

There is no evidence that anyone ever spoke in anything but languages of human origin. Babbling is not speaking in tongues it is babbling. Babel was a sign of Gods judgment upon mankind for their rebellion and conspiring to approach God on their terms.

There is evidence that people who speak in babblings are in fact demonically possessed. The catholic books on exorcism document their attempts to deal with demons and they use babblings as evidence of the presence of demons.

I know it's only marginal charismatics that believe in babblings as tongues but I wanted to be up front on the matter. Perhaps is just marginal Christians that get involved in these things??

2Co 6:15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?

Come out from them and touch not the unclean thing. Separate yourself unto the Lord thy God.

shrume said:
All you seem to have left are insults.

On the other hand, insults and belittlement have been a significant part of your argument from the first.
I'm being kind to you. The rules will not permit me to express my distain for your position from a doctrinal standpoint.

 

[Noose]

that's right. ignore what I said about whether or not you can possibly know if my prayers are frutiful or unfrutiful

we can all see right through you. even your cessationst in arms friends here, can see you have just deflected what I said, made up some blame game nonsense and then tried to say I convinced myself of something

grow up and try to actually respond to what I said instead of pretending you found it funny and then throwing some Roger the Dodger handmade excuses into the mix

again... do you know if my prayers are fruitful or unfruitful?

the ONLY answer is OF COURSE NOT

you have no more proof of what you say then I have proof you have bat ears and fly around at night

I can actually know if they are unfruitful. If i don't understand a thing you are saying, then your prayer is unfruitful because there's no understanding. Fruitfulness is within the context of other people understanding and this also called edification. It is even worse if you don't understand it yourself because self edification won't be there.

 

[Noose]

ummm...there are a couple of people on this thread that I have on ignore

you will know who you are when I never answer you

just the facts

It is usually funny when people cry 'facts' at the end of everything they say, but we see non.

 

[shrume]

I can actually know if they are unfruitful. If i don't understand a thing you are saying, then your prayer is unfruitful because there's no understanding.

If there is no interpretation, it is unfruitful TO YOU, but not to the person speaking.

1 Cor 14:
4) He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

Fruitfulness is within the context of other people understanding and this also called edification.

Speaking in tongues is unfruitful to a person's mind because he does not understand what he is saying (1 Cor 14:2, 14). But it is not unfruitful to the person (1 Cor 14:4).

It is even worse if you don't understand it yourself because self edification won't be there.

That's a direct contradiction of scripture.

1 Cor 14:
2) For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
4) He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

 

[Noose]

1 Corinthians 12: 14 Yes, the body has many different parts, not just one part. 15 If the foot says, “I am not a part of the body because I am not a hand,” that does not make it any less a part of the body. 16 And if the ear says, “I am not part of the body because I am not an eye,” would that make it any less a part of the body? 17 If the whole body were an eye, how would you hear? Or if your whole body were an ear, how would you smell anything?

God dispenses gifts depending on what he has called us to do, but there is nothing wrong in asking for what you don't already have.

And why is it that 99% of the people are only asking for the 'gift' of speaking incomprehensible words? is something amiss?

 

[notuptome]

here are some of Roger's comments over the months to prove what I have said above. links provided to ensure truthfulness

I spent a little time to find a few quotes from Roger in months gone past to illustrate how he connects tongues to demons and from there to those who speak in tongues

his comments are rife with personal interpretations and I went back pretty far simply to show he has been at it a long time

the demonic comments are in other threads but its time consuming to wade through them so I just posted the first one I found

without prejudice, but to back up what I said earlier and why I have decided to no longer to respond to him


https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/the-charismatic-movement.124527/page-14


https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/the-charismatic-movement.124527/page-14

https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/speaking-in-tongues.177501/page-29#post-3638034

Go ahead ignore the truth. That will not change the truth.

Now who is smearing another poster? Context is just as important in evaluating what I have posted and understanding can increase over time so as I have said show from the bible what you are saying is correct or argue with God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Noose]

Oh come on you are the one making all this personal. I have given you Gods word.

I'm not besmirching anyone I'm only giving scriptural evidence that contradicts the erroneous teaching that is extant in the modern church regarding tongues.

I do not believe that Christians can speak under the influence of a demonic spirit. Paul seems to say that men can speak in their human spirit but that is not to be taken as a demonic spirit.

I repeat that most Pentecostal people have a correct soteriology and are saved. Like every group there are a few that do not but by far most do.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

C'mmon, men do speak under the influence of demonic spirits- most of them. How many times did Jesus warn that satan comes with rich tricks that even the elect will fall for? I don't think He was joking.

 

[notuptome]

C'mmon, men do speak under the influence of demonic spirits- most of them. How many times did Jesus warn that satan comes with rich tricks that even the elect will fall for? I don't think He was joking.

Demons cannot influence saved persons. Jesus was addressing lost souls. The Holy Spirit and demonic spirits cannot abide in the same place. Light causes darkness to flee.

In context the elect in the passage you allude to is Israel not the church.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Noose]

If there is no interpretation, it is unfruitful TO YOU, but not to the person speaking.

1 Cor 14:
4) He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

If giving people understanding/ making other people understand is edification (to them), it only means that self edification is things that one understands on their own. There's no self edification if one doesn't understand what they speak. Edification=understanding.

1 Cor 14: 15So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my understanding; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my understanding.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Go ahead ignore the truth. That will not change the truth.

Now who is smearing another poster? Context is just as important in evaluating what I have posted and understanding can increase over time so as I have said show from the bible what you are saying is correct or argue with God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

as I said I am not going to bother speaking to you about tongues anymore but I will address this untruthful post of yours

1) this:

Now who is smearing another poster?

sounds like you admit to smearing people. you used the word 'smear'. I did not

2) you have no understanding as you seem to think everyone who speaks in tongues is demonic or speaks under demonic power

take your own advice regarding arguing with God