Speaking in tongues

[yellowcanary]

In case you misread the tone of my post where I first addressed your reasoning, it was not a personal attack. Perhaps I could have been more clear on that point, and if it was taken as such, I offer my apology.

I would agree with you if Paul had said ... "if I speak in the languages of men and the language of angels". But he didn't say that ... and here we are debating Paul's intent to justify each our own beliefs.

As for the rest, I am simply stating that "I could" make a case for angels speaking many languages if that's what I wanted to believe. I don't. Paul was speaking hyperbole.

I did interpret your earlier post in a negative light. And I too also acted in a manner not to be proud of. We're both human with flaws remaining. I too offer an apology.

 

[Dino246]

I would agree with you if Paul had said ... "if I speak in the languages of men and the language of angels". But he didn't say that ... and here we are debating Paul's intent to justify each our own beliefs.

"Tongues" appears only once in the Greek of that verse, as far as I can see. Plural languages among angels is possible but certainly not required. As it is a point of example only, I think speculation on it is of limited value. As for it being hyperbole, I have no firm stand on that. I don't think either position makes much difference to the overall cessation/continuation debate.

I did interpret your earlier post in a negative light. And I too also acted in a manner not to be proud of. We're both human with flaws remaining. I too offer an apology.

All good.

 

[garee]

You are wasting your own time. I never said we don't pray and i never said people should stop praying- you can pray without ceasing if you want but know that prayer is a need deeply embedded in your heart and not necessarily the spoken request.

Yes praying without ceasing is defined as whatever a person eats, drinks and does he does it unto the glory of God.

 

[Dino246]

Yes praying without ceasing is defined as whatever a person eats, drinks and does he does it unto the glory of God.

No, it isn't. Nowhere does Scripture define it as such.

 

[garee]

"Tongues" appears only once in the Greek of that verse, as far as I can see. Plural languages among angels is possible but certainly not required. As it is a point of example only, I think speculation on it is of limited value. As for it being hyperbole, I have no firm stand on that. I don't think either position makes much difference to the overall cessation/continuation debate.



All good.

One thing I thought of is, angels are ministers who bring the word of God as God voice . The ones that did not leave the first place of habitation they have no voice or language of their own.

Tongues of men and of angels. would simply be men brining the gospel .

We might never know if the person we are conversing with are sent with the word of God as messengers of God. We must be careful. Messengers come in many manners , tongues is one, parables that hide the spiritual understanding another, casting lots or using fleece to bring an answer or encouragement, Balaam's ass another (etc)

Hebrews 13:2 Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels (messengers) unawares.

 

[garee]

No, it isn't. Nowhere does Scripture define it as such.

Praying is seeking .We seek to do his will in whatever we eat, drink, work, play or whatever moment he leads us

1 Corinthians 10:31 Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.

What do you think it means to pray without ceasing? Glory in our own flesh by making a noise . HMMMMMMM like chanting?

 

[PS]

Yes praying without ceasing is defined as whatever a person eats, drinks and does he does it unto the glory of God.

Whatever we are doing and wherever we are, always have the Lord in your thoughts.

 

[PS]

Thought for the Day

1Ti 4:1-16 ISV Now the Spirit says clearly that in the last times some people will abandon the faith by following deceitful spirits, the teachings of demons, (2) and the hypocrisy of liars, whose consciences have been burned by a hot iron. (3) They will try to stop people from marrying and from eating certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. (4) For everything God created is good, and nothing should be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, (5) because it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer. (6) If you continue to point these things out to the brothers, you will be a good servant of the Messiah Jesus, nourished by the words of the faith and the healthy teaching that you have followed closely.

(7) Do not have anything to do with godless myths and fables of old women. Instead, train yourself to be godly. (8) Physical exercise is of limited value, but Godliness is very dear, a pledge of life, both there and here. (9) This is a trustworthy saying that deserves complete acceptance. (10) To this end we work hard and struggle, because we have set our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, that is, of those who believe.

(11) These are the things you must insist on and teach. (12) Do not let anyone look down on you because you are young, but be an example for other believers in your speech, behavior, love, faithfulness, and purity. (13) Until I arrive, give your full concentration to the public reading of Scripture, to exhorting, and to teaching. (14) Do not neglect the gift that is in you, which was given to you through prophecy when the elders laid their hands on you. (15) Think on these things. Devote your life to them so that everyone can see your progress. (16) Pay close attention to your life and your teaching. Persevere in these things, because if you do so, you will save both yourself and those who listen to you.

 

[yellowcanary]

I read these posts, and chose not to engage in that part of the conversation, because I think you are both in error. The assertion that "tongues of men and angels" means many tongues of men and many tongues of angels is possible but not required by any means. Tongues is pluralized, because men do speak many tongues. Add the language of angels (assuming for the moment that it is singular) and "tongues" is still plural. That's an error of interpreting the language on the part of the other person.

I wanted to ask you .. What do you consider the correct and intended meaning of Paul's words in 1 Corinthians 13:1 .. specifically in regards to tongues ? Was Paul making reference to an angelic language in your view ?

I ask because although I've read posts of yours saying what you believe to be in error, I am not yet able to pin down exactly what your position is ? I'm assuming that you speak in tongues given your position thus far ? What are they to you Dino ? Earthly languages ? Angelic language(s) ? Does it or should it even matter in your opinion ?

 

[garee]

I wanted to ask you .. What do you consider the correct and intended meaning of Paul's words in 1 Corinthians 13:1 .. specifically in regards to tongues ? Was Paul making reference to an angelic language in your view ?

I ask because although I've read posts of yours saying what you believe to be in error, I am not yet able to pin down exactly what your position is ? I'm assuming that you speak in tongues given your position thus far ? What are they to you Dino ? Earthly languages ? Angelic language(s) ? Does it or should it even matter in your opinion ?

Angels are messenger that bring the word of God (prophecy) .They do not have their own language. unless they are fallen angels that do not do the will of God. they would be like natural man who opposes the will of God .

 

[calibob]

Paul was not writing a literary treaste to be picked apart by english students and professors he was writing to the church at Corinth. Not in english either

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Praying is seeking .We seek to do his will in whatever we eat, drink, work, play or whatever moment he leads us

1 Corinthians 10:31 Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.

What do you think it means to pray without ceasing? Glory in our own flesh by making a noise . HMMMMMMM like chanting?

this is really not one of your better posts garee

praying is whatever we make it.

you know? sometimes you just sit yourself down and have a good heart to heart with God

it's called relationship and the reason we can do that, is because Jesus has paved the way for us to be able to do so

and what's with the chanting? who is chanting here? I don't think anyone is a Franciscan monk in this thread

 

[garee]

this is really not one of your better posts garee

praying is whatever we make it.

you know? sometimes you just sit yourself down and have a good heart to heart with God

it's called relationship and the reason we can do that, is because Jesus has paved the way for us to be able to do so

and what's with the chanting? who is chanting here? I don't think anyone is a Franciscan monk in this thread

Sorry if I offended you.

Praying is seeking siting down having that soul to soul, or heart to heart talk with God.

The Hmmmm chant was in respect to those who make a noise and call it praying in tongues.

 

[calibob]

Sorry if I offended you.

Praying is seeking siting down having that soul to soul, or heart to heart talk with God.

The Hmmmm chant was in respect to those who make a noise and call it praying in tongues.

chanting is a form of brainwashing and often used to disengage the thought process from logical form of thought and make those who practice it suceptible to hypnotic influence. Zen Buddists, Hare Krishnas Moonies and many other cults have been very sucessful using this technique.. It is not of God.

 

[Dino246]

I wanted to ask you .. What do you consider the correct and intended meaning of Paul's words in 1 Corinthians 13:1 .. specifically in regards to tongues ? Was Paul making reference to an angelic language in your view ?

I ask because although I've read posts of yours saying what you believe to be in error, I am not yet able to pin down exactly what your position is ? I'm assuming that you speak in tongues given your position thus far ? What are they to you Dino ? Earthly languages ? Angelic language(s) ? Does it or should it even matter in your opinion ?

Regarding 1 Cor 13:1, Paul's main point was that any ability, expressed in the absence of love, has no value. I believe that Paul did, in fact, know whether angels had their own language, because he had been "caught up to heaven". However, I don't think that the angels' ability or inability to speak their own language has any bearing at all on the gift of tongues. Paul's point is not clear enough that it can be used as proof that speaking in tongues is speaking in angelic language. It only suggests the possibility.

 

[Dino246]

Praying is seeking .We seek to do his will in whatever we eat, drink, work, play or whatever moment he leads us

1 Corinthians 10:31 Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.

What do you think it means to pray without ceasing? Glory in our own flesh by making a noise . HMMMMMMM like chanting?

Your sarcastic characterization of the beliefs of others reflects negatively on you. If and when I advocate such things, then feel free to criticize them. Until then, when you respond to me, perhaps you can contain yourself to responding to what I actually write.

 

[Noose]

Another proof that everything ceased, even evangelism:

1 Corinthians 12:28
And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, and those with gifts of healing, helping, administration, and various tongues


Jer 31:
33“This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel
after that time,” declares the Lord.
“I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
34No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,”

So are we in the new covenant or not or will there be another covenant?

 

[PS]

Another proof that everything ceased, even evangelism:

1 Corinthians 12:28
And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, and those with gifts of healing, helping, administration, and various tongues


Jer 31:
33“This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel
after that time,” declares the Lord.
“I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
34No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,”

So are we in the new covenant or not or will there be another covenant?

We are living in New Covenant days that offer free forgiveness of sins.

And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins. (Mat 1:21)

For this is my covenant unto them when I shall take away their sins. (Rom 11:27)

To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. (Act 10:43)

Unfortunately, mankind as a whole remains oblivious and uncaring, hence the malaise we see today.

 

[Dino246]

Another proof that everything ceased, even evangelism:

1 Corinthians 12:28
And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, and those with gifts of healing, helping, administration, and various tongues


Jer 31:
33“This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel
after that time,” declares the Lord.
“I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
34No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,”

So are we in the new covenant or not or will there be another covenant?

You claim that teaching will not be needed, and that we shall all know the Lord, and yet you are on this forum attempting to teach others. That's a self-defeating argument.

Also, not all prophecy has been fulfilled yet.

 

[Noose]

You claim that teaching will not be needed, and that we shall all know the Lord, and yet you are on this forum attempting to teach others. That's a self-defeating argument.

Also, not all prophecy has been fulfilled yet.

I'm not teaching others even if i do they won't listen, but i'm cautioning them and i'm trying to reason and test the spirits.
It is not my claim, it is the word of God.

This is the thing:
Even though teaching is continuing today, we are forced to wonder where it comes from- God teaches and the teaching is within the hearts of the believers.
Even though claims of healing and even resurrection are happening today, we are wondering where they are from- For God heals within the hearts of believers, not a man going to heal another man.

And the most obvious one, modern tongues- where is it from.

The kingdom of God doesn't come with observable signs.