Not By Works

dcontroversal · Jun 30, 2018

Gabriel2020 said:

AMEN...he took ALL of my sin on the cross and IMPUTED his righteousness dia faith....I have been born again of incorruptable SEED that does not SIN (THE SPIRIT BORN FROM ABOVE) and where sin abounds, GRACE abounds the more <---written to believers......

TruthTalk · Jun 30, 2018

justpassinthrough said:

There are still consequences for our sin; If you get caught robbing a bank you will go to prison. Can God forgive this sin, yes He can. I can see you have a problem with "the eternal security of the believer." Salvation begins the moment you are born again; practical sanctification and the pursuit of holy living is our daily walk with Christ as He abides in us and we abide in Him.

Do you think that God forgave Adam and Eve "all of their sin"

Romans5:20
Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

Romans8:1
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,

1John1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

Matthew12:31
Therefore I tell you, "every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men," but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.

fredoheaven · Jun 30, 2018

VCO said:

Very true anyone who reject Christ and his gospel to be recieve by faith alone is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.

Seohce · Jun 30, 2018

Seohce said:

OSAS AND FAS ARE FALSE MAN MADE DOCTRINES THAT PROMOTES DISOBEDIENCE TO GOD AND REJECTS AND NULLIFIES GOD'S WORDS AND COMMANDS. (mark 7:6-13, Isaiah 5:20-24)

SO DO NOT LET ANYONE DECEIVE YOU...FOR THE WRATH OF GOD COMES ON THOSE WHO ARE DISOBEDIENT.(Ephesians 5:6)

OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST WHO IS THE SOURCE OF ETERNAL LIFE FOR THOSE WHO OBEY HIM (Hebrews 5:8-9) SAID:

Revelation 3:1-3 To the Church in Sardis “To the angel of the church in Sardis write: These are the words of him who holds the seven spirits of God and the seven stars. I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but you are dead. Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I HAVE NOT FOUND YOUR DEEDS COMPLETE in the sight of my God. Remember, therefore, what you have RECEIVED and HEARD ; OBEY IT and REPENT. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.

JESUS HAVE NOT FOUND THEIR DEEDS "COMPLETE" IN THE EYES OF GOD.

THEN HE TOLD THEM TO "OBEY" WHAT THEY RECEIVED AND HEARD AND TO REPENT.

JESUS WAS SPEAKING HERE TO ONE OF THE SEVEN CHURCHES WHO "RECEIVED AND HEARD" AND WE KNOW THAT THE "CHURCH" IS THE BODY OF CHRIST WHOM HE WILL SAVE. (eph 5:23)

WHY WILL HE SAY THAT THEIR DEEDS ARE NOT COMPLETE IF WORKS ARE NOT NECESSARY FOR SALVATION AND THAT "FAITH ALONE" SAVES?

WHY WOULD JESUS COMMAND THEM TO OBEY AND REPENT IF IT IS NO LONGER NECESSARY SINCE THEY ARE ALREADY SAVED ETERNALLY? (OSAS)

IS JESUS IGNORANT OF THIS DOCTRINE OR IS IT CONTRARY TO HIS TEACHINGS AND COMMANDS ( john 14:23-24) AND THEREFORE ARE JUST FALSE MAN MADE DOCTRINES THAT NULLIFIES GOD'S WORDS?

JESUS AND HIS FATHER REQUIRE SOME WORKS TO BE COMPLETED AND ASKED FOR OBEDIENCE AND REPENTANCE.

Romans 8:4 in order that the righteous REQUIREMENTS of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.

Malachi 3:14 “You have said, ‘It is futile to serve God. What did we gain by CARRYING OUT HIS REQUIREMENTS and going about like mourners before the Lord Almighty?

Matthew 19:17 “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. IF YOU WANT TO ENTER LIFE, OBEY THE COMMANDMENTS..”

GOD REQUIRES OBEDIENCE AND REPENTANCE IN OUR PART OTHERWISE HIS WRATH WILL COME ON THOSE WHO ARE "DISOBEDIENT".(eph 5:6 )

Luke 6:46 “Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?

John 14:15 “If you love me, you will obey what I command.

2 John 1:6 And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love.

DO NOT BE DECEIVED... GOD CANNOT BE MOCKED...WE SOW WHAT WE REAP...(Galatians 6:7-10)

"LET GOD BE TRUE..." (Romans 3:3-4)

"WE REAP WHAT WE SOW"... SORRY!

Galatians 6:7-10 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers.

Seohce · Jun 30, 2018

TruthTalk said:

Matthew 6:9-15 “This, then, is how you should pray: “‘Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name, your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give us today our daily bread. Forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one.’ For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.

Romans 3:3-4 What if some did not have faith? Will their lack of faith nullify God’s faithfulness? Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written: “So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge.”

justpassinthrough · Jun 30, 2018

Gabriel2020 said:

No mention of future sins.

Yes all your sins you have committed are forgiven.

Now if you sin, then you need to confess your sin to be forgiven.

If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9

OSAS = Heresy.

Thanks for proving that OSAS is a doctrine of demons.

Here is the truth.

He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4

JPT

justpassinthrough · Jun 30, 2018

TruthTalk said:

Yes.

We need to confess our sins, to be forgiven.

JPT

justpassinthrough · Jun 30, 2018

Not one single one of you guys who believe OSAS has answered my question to define what lost means.

His sheep can indeed become lost.

4 “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? 5 And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ 7 I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.
Luke 15:4-7

if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it?

For the rational Christian, who desires to know and walk in truth, all that is needed is to simply read this passage of scripture, to know that OSAS is a lie from hell.

I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.

A Christian who becomes lost, is as a sinner in need of repentance.

The prodigal son, same thing -

32 It was right that we should make merry and be glad, for your brother was dead and is alive again, and was lost and is found.’ ”
Luke 15:32

for your brother was dead and is alive again, and was lost and is found.’

JPT

justpassinthrough · Jun 30, 2018

fredoheaven said:

Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, is calling the Holy Spirit the devil.

24 Now when the Pharisees heard it they said, “This fellow does not cast out demons except by Beelzebub, the ruler of the demons.”

25 But Jesus knew their thoughts, and said to them: “Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation, and every city or house divided against itself will not stand. 26 If Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then will his kingdom stand? 27 And if I cast out demons by Beelzebub, by whom do your sons cast them out? Therefore they shall be your judges. 28 But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, surely the kingdom of God has come upon you. 29 Or how can one enter a strong man’s house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man? And then he will plunder his house. 30 He who is not with Me is against Me, and he who does not gather with Me scatters abroad.

31 “Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men,but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. 32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come. Matthew 12:24-32

but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.

These Pharisee's were calling the Spirit, by which Jesus was casting out devils, the Devil.

JPT

VCO · Jun 30, 2018

fredoheaven said:

Did you just say what I think you said?

So where is your LOVE?

Titus 3:4-7 (HCSB)
4 But when the goodness of God and His love for mankind appeared,
5 He saved us— not by works of righteousness that we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewal by the Holy Spirit.
6 He poured out this ⌊Spirit⌋ on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
7 so that having been justified by His grace, we may become heirs with the hope of eternal life.

John 10:25-30 (HCSB)
25 “I did tell you and you don’t believe,” Jesus answered them. “The works that I do in My Father’s name testify about Me.
26 But you don’t believe because you are not My sheep.
27 My sheep hear My voice, I know them, and they follow Me.
28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish—ever! No one will snatch them out of My hand.
29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all. No one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
30 The Father and I are one.”

2 John 1:2 (HCSB)
2 because of the truth that remains in us and will be with us forever.

Ephesians 2:1-9 (HCSB)
1 And you were dead in your trespasses and sins
2 in which you previously walked according to the ways of this world, according to the ruler who exercises authority over the lower heavens, the spirit now working in the disobedient.
3 We too all previously lived among them in our fleshly desires, carrying out the inclinations of our flesh and thoughts, and we were by nature children under wrath as the others were also.
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love that He had for us,
5 made us alive with the Messiah even though we were dead in trespasses. You are saved by grace!
6 Together with Christ Jesus He also raised us up and seated us in the heavens,
7 so that in the coming ages He might display the immeasurable riches of His grace through ⌊His⌋ kindness to us in Christ Jesus.
8 For you are saved by grace through faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is God’s gift—
9 not from works, so that no one can boast.

Acts 15:10-11 (HCSB)
10 Now then, why are you testing God by putting a yoke on the disciples’ necks that neither our ancestors nor we have been able to bear?
11 On the contrary, we believe we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus in the same way they are.”

2 Timothy 1:7-9 (NJB)
7 God did not give us a spirit of timidity, but the Spirit of power and love and self-control.
8 So you are never to be ashamed of witnessing to our Lord, or ashamed of me for being his prisoner; but share in my hardships for the sake of the gospel, relying on the power of God
9 who has saved us and called us to be holy—not because of anything we ourselves had done but for his own purpose and by his own grace. This grace had already been granted to us, in Christ Jesus, before the beginning of time,

Galatians 2:16 (HCSB)
16 know that no one is justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ. And we have believed in Christ Jesus so that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no human being will be justified.

John 5:24 (CSBBible)
24 "Truly I tell you, anyone who hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not come under judgment but has passed from death to life.

John 3:36 (ESV)
36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

Romans 9:31-32 (HCSB)
31 But Israel, pursuing the law for righteousness, has not achieved ⌊the righteousness⌋ of the law.
32 Why is that? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone.

Malachi 3:6 (HCSB)
6 “Because I, Yahweh, have not changed,
you descendants of Jacob have not been destroyed.

SO WHERE DO OUR GOOD WORKS COME INTO PLAY?

IT DOES NOT COUNT FOR SALVATION, 0% OF THEM;

IT IS HOW WE ARE LOVE GOD AND OUR BRETHREN AFTER WE ARE SAVED BY HIM.

Seohce · Jul 1, 2018

VCR

VCO said:

OSAS AND FAS ARE FALSE MAN MADE DOCTRINES THAT PROMOTES DISOBEDIENCE TO GOD AND REJECTS AND NULLIFIES GOD'S WORDS AND COMMANDS. (mark 7:6-13, Isaiah 5:20-24)

SO DO NOT LET ANYONE DECEIVE YOU...FOR THE WRATH OF GOD COMES ON THOSE WHO ARE DISOBEDIENT.(Ephesians 5:6)

OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST WHO IS THE SOURCE OF ETERNAL LIFE FOR THOSE WHO OBEY HIM (Hebrews 5:8-9) SAID:

Revelation 3:1-3 To the Church in Sardis “To the angel of the church in Sardis write: These are the words of him who holds the seven spirits of God and the seven stars. I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but you are dead. Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I HAVE NOT FOUND YOUR DEEDS COMPLETE in the sight of my God. Remember, therefore, what you have RECEIVED and HEARD ; OBEY IT and REPENT. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.

JESUS HAVE NOT FOUND THEIR DEEDS "COMPLETE" IN THE EYES OF GOD.

THEN HE TOLD THEM TO "OBEY" WHAT THEY RECEIVED AND HEARD AND TO REPENT.

JESUS WAS SPEAKING HERE TO ONE OF THE SEVEN CHURCHES AND WE KNOW THAT THE "CHURCH" IS THE BODY OF CHRIST WHOM HE WILL SAVE. (eph 5:23)

WHY WILL HE SAY THAT THEIR DEEDS ARE NOT COMPLETE IF WORKS ARE NOT NECESSARY FOR SALVATION AND THAT "FAITH ALONE" SAVES?

WHY WOULD JESUS COMMAND THEM TO OBEY AND REPENT IF IT
IS NO LONGER NECESSARY SINCE THEY ARE SAVED ETERNALLY? (OSAS)

IS JESUS IGNORANT OF THIS DOCTRINE OR IS IT CONTRARY TO HIS TEACHINGS AND COMMANDS AND THEREFORE ARE JUST FALSE MAN MADE DOCTRINE THAT NULLIFIES GOD'S WORDS?

JESUS AND HIS FATHER REQUIRE SOME WORKS TO BE COMPLETED AND ASKED FOR OBEDIENCE AND REPENTANCE.

Romans 8:4 in order that the righteous REQUIREMENTS of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.

Malachi 3:14 “You have said, ‘It is futile to serve God. What did we gain by CARRYING OUT HIS REQUIREMENTS and going about like mourners before the Lord Almighty?

GOD REQUIRES OBEDIENCE AND REPENTANCE IN OUR PART OTHERWISE HIS WRATH WILL COME ON THOSE WHO ARE "DISOBEDIENT".(eph 5:6 )

Luke 6:46 “Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?

John 14:15 “If you love me, you will obey what I command.

2 John 1:6 And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love.

DO NOT BE DECEIVED... GOD CANNOT BE MOCKED...WE REAP WHAT WE SOW...(Galatians 6:7-10)

NOW IF FAITH ALONE SAVES AND ONCE SAVED, YOU ARE ALWAYS SAVED, DOES THIS PASSAGE BELOW CONTRADICT THESE FALSE MAN MADE DOCTRINE OR DO YOU REJECT IT OR TWIST IT TO MEAN SOMETHING ELSE THAT WOULD FIT YOUR DOCTRINE?

Matthew 24:9-14 “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. At that time MANY WILL TURN AWAY FROM THE FAITH and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, THE LOVE OF MOST WILL GROW COLD, but HE WHO STANDS FIRM TO THE END WILL BE SAVED . And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

MANY WHO HAS FAITH WILL TURN AWAY FROM THEIR FAITH.

ARE THEY STILL SAVED AFTER TURNING AWAY FROM THEIR FAITH(ALONE)?

DO YOU MOCK GOD AND REJECT THESE VERSES BELOW?

Galatians 6:7-10 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature WILL REAP DESTRUCTION; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit WILL REAP ETERNAL LIFE. Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers.

James 2:26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD..

"LET GOD BE TRUE..." (Romans 3:3-4)

mailmandan · Jul 1, 2018

justpassinthrough said:

Those who teach salvation by works are neither in Him or remain in Him.

The Greek word for "abide" is "meno" which means to remain, tarry, not to depart, continue to be present.

In John 15, Jesus mentions branches that bear no fruit and branches that bear fruit (vs. 2) but Jesus says nothing about branches that bear fruit but then stopped bearing fruit. *When Jesus spoke these words in John 15, how many people at that time, prior to Him being glorified had received the Holy Spirit and were baptized by one Spirit into one body? - (the body of Christ? - 1 Corinthians 12:13). - 0

John 7:38 - He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water. 39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified. So "in Me" is part of the metaphor of the vine, (in the vine) not in the body of Christ under the New Covenant which was not yet fully established.

In John 15, we see two kinds of connections with Christ as the vine (the merely cosmic which bears no fruit and the spiritual and vital which bears fruit). - https://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/robertsons-word-pictures/john/john-15.html

Without that vital union with Christ, there can be no life and no productivity. Those who profess to know Christ but whose relationship to Him is self-attached, He neither elected them, nor saved them, nor sustains them. Eventually, the spiritually dead self-attached branches (like Judas Iscariot) are cut off.

*Under the New Covenant, people who are saved have been baptized by one Spirit into one body and are in the body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12:13). Yet prior to that? (John 7:38,39) You need to rightly divide the word of truth.

Those who do not remain in Christ were never truly in Christ to begin with (1 John 2:19). It never ceases to amaze me to see how it's works-salvationists who primarily grind on this topic and continue to relentlessly attack the OSAS doctrine.

You are turning this into works salvation. To keep (guard, watch over, keep intact) His commandments is the demonstrative evidence of abiding in Him. Here is another descriptive passage of scripture. 1 John 2:3 - By this we know that we have come to know Him, (demonstrative evidence) if we keep (guard, watch over, keep intact) His commandments. 4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep (guard, watch over, keep intact) His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

*ONLY BELIEVERS ABIDE in Christ and love is also the demonstrative evidence of abiding in Christ. 1 John 4:12 - No one has seen God at any time. If we love one another, (demonstrative evidence) God abides in us, and His love has been perfected in us. 13 By this we know that we abide in Him, and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit. 14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son as Savior of the world. 15 Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God. 16 And we have known and believed the love that God has for us. God is love, and he who abides in love abides in God, and God in him.

mailmandan · Jul 1, 2018

justpassinthrough said:

I've heard another argument that being made "alive again" foreshadows the "born again" experience that Jesus spoke of in John 3:3. Of course Jesus wasn't talking about being born again spiritually again and again. We are born once physically and born "again" once spiritually. People in the NOSAS camp interpret this parable as the prodigal son was spiritually alive, then spiritually died (lost his salvation) and was spiritually alive again (regained his salvation).

I find it interesting that certain translations of Luke 15:32 simply say your brother was dead, and is alive; he was lost, and is found (ESV); your brother was dead, but now he is alive. He was lost, but now he is found (NCV); this brother of yours was dead and has come to life; he was lost and has been found (NRS); this brother of yours was dead and has begun to live, and was lost and has been found (NAS).

Regardless of what eternal IN-securists believe about this parable, in the end, the prodigal son came to his senses and returned to his father. All is well and nothing is mentioned about the prodigal son going to hell.

mailmandan · Jul 1, 2018

justpassinthrough said:

Acts 13:39 - and by Him everyone who believes is justified from ALL things (not merely some things) from which you could not be justified by the law of Moses.

gb9 · Jul 1, 2018

it is also noteworthy to mention that in the Hebrew culture, the son asking the father for his share while the father is still alive is like saying that he wishes his father was dead.

now, if my son came to me, and said " I wish you were dead, give me my money". then left the country, It would feel like he died. not talking, not seeing each other.

the father , based on the son's actions, thought he would never see him again. so, when he said " he was dead , now he is alive', that is how he felt.

justpassinthrough · Jul 1, 2018

VCO said:

Those who are in Him, must abide or remain in Him or be cast into the fire and burned.

Here is how we abide in Him.

Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.
1 John 3:24

JPT

Chester · Jul 1, 2018

mailmandan said:

That verse does not say future sins are forgiven!

dcontroversal · Jul 1, 2018

TruthTalk said:

Amen....the blood, mercy, grace and forgiveness found in Christ for a believer is preemptive.....yes we will answer, be judged, lose rewards, squander rewards, maybe be put in the wilderness (no peace in this life), temporarily lose fellowship (just like when we make a family member of friend mad, grieve the Holy Spirit etc. by sin, unfaithfulness, riotous living etc.......but our Spiritual birth is secure, born from above by the power of the Holy Spirit, is of INCORRUPTABLE SEED, and the gift of eternal life is IRREVOCABLE......those who devalue these truths and say ONE can lose it do NOT know the God of Heaven and or Jesus by the faith accurately described in the bible....there are so many promises and verses of scripture that must be rejected, denied, chinked under the bus, twisted out of context etc. to believe it can be lost that if it were true (and it is not) we might as well chunk the bible, because it is not worth the paper it is written on.......!

in·cor·rupt·i·ble
ˌinkəˈrəptəb(ə)l/
adjective

1.
not susceptible to corruption, especially by bribery.
synonyms:honest, honorable, trustworthy, principled, high-principled, unbribable, moral, ethical, good, virtuous
"an incorruptible man"

2.
not subject to death or decay; everlasting.
synonyms:imperishable, indestructible, in

ir·rev·o·ca·ble
əˈrevəkəb(ə)l/
adjective

not able to be changed, reversed, or recovered; final.
"an irrevocable step"
synonyms:irreversible, unalterable, unchangeable, immutable, final, binding, permanent, carved in stone;
peremptory
"an irrevocable commitment"

dcontroversal · Jul 1, 2018

mailmandan said:

And I will add....

a. He was only perceived as dead by his actions, but was very much alive during the whole process
b. The fact that he was son NEVER changed though out the whole process

The salvation losers and I must keep it myself group also takes Hebrews out of context as well...those who did not enter into rest because of unbelief when they said we cannot take the land were made to wander until God raised up a new generation....they had been delivered by faith (the blood struck) they had the picture of immersion (Red Sea) and were still led by God dia the pillar of fire/smoke, were sustained, given a way to worship, etc....WHAT they miss is the simple fact that there is a position of rest afforded believers in this life and that when we walk unfaithfully before the Lord he will remove the blessings and place of rest that can be found (nothing will go our proverbial way) and he does this to chasten us.....another thing they miss was the timing of Hebrews...THEY WERE UNDER THE LAW not GRACE and the Hebrews even MUST be viewed in this light <----very little mercy under the LAW compared to the OUTBOUNDING grace of God under the New Covenant.........

dcontroversal · Jul 1, 2018

Chester said:

You would have Christ take up a permanent residence on the cross wouldn't you....

Justified<---legally declared INNOCENT
Where sin abounds <---GRACE DID ABOUND THE MORE-->written to BELIEVERS

How many times do you need t be dipped in the blood of Christ to be covered? 1, 2, 3, 50, every time you sin?

WHEN I SEE THE BLOOD I WILL PASS OVER YOU and HE saved you at YOUR WORST when LOST IN SIN and DEAD!

Not By Works

Banned

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Banned

Banned

Banned