Not By Works
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That's right, OSAS is not valid and Jesus will not force anyone into heaven.
The problem with OSAS as some perceive it like yourself to be, is that us greasy gracers that you think we've are believe that we say "Just say the sinners prayer and you are saved and that's it"
So if any one preached that then it is wrong.
That's different from Eternal Security.
Did not Jesus say that those the Father has given him that he would not lose one.
Did not Jesus say that the only work God requires is to believe or it is the work of God to belive.
Either way the result is the sin that the Holy Spirit
People come to genuine faith in Jesus.
They repent of the sin that Jesus said why he had to go back to the Father so that the Holy Spirit would come to convict the world of that sin .
The sin of unbelief in him.
So if that's the case and someone genuinely repents of that has not Jesus promised not to lose one of those God has given them, that no one can snatch him out of his hands.
If that's the case then we have a problem.
That problem is that Jesus is telling a lie, if he looses just one then it's a lie.
Yet we know he is not a liar.
The inference is that we can prise open his hands and when we do we are lost and until we go back to his hands we are lost.
Jesus does not give a flimsy handshake, he gives a firm one.
One that does not let go.
You say dead sheep that then became a live sheep.
Where does it say the sheep was dead.
Afterall why would Jesus carry a dead sheep on his shoulders and celebrate it?
The problem with OSAS as some perceive it like yourself to be, is that us greasy gracers that you think we've are believe that we say "Just say the sinners prayer and you are saved and that's it"
So if any one preached that then it is wrong.
That's different from Eternal Security.
Did not Jesus say that those the Father has given him that he would not lose one.
Did not Jesus say that the only work God requires is to believe or it is the work of God to belive.
Either way the result is the sin that the Holy Spirit
People come to genuine faith in Jesus.
They repent of the sin that Jesus said why he had to go back to the Father so that the Holy Spirit would come to convict the world of that sin .
The sin of unbelief in him.
So if that's the case and someone genuinely repents of that has not Jesus promised not to lose one of those God has given them, that no one can snatch him out of his hands.
If that's the case then we have a problem.
That problem is that Jesus is telling a lie, if he looses just one then it's a lie.
Yet we know he is not a liar.
The inference is that we can prise open his hands and when we do we are lost and until we go back to his hands we are lost.
Jesus does not give a flimsy handshake, he gives a firm one.
One that does not let go.
You say dead sheep that then became a live sheep.
Where does it say the sheep was dead.
Afterall why would Jesus carry a dead sheep on his shoulders and celebrate it?
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Total rubbish.
We have been here before.
I told you about my childhood.
And you said the same and committed me to hell.
My so called Christian foster dad tried many many times to sexually abuse me, penetrate me.
I asked you "If the first time he did this and if I did not forgive him and died moment later would I be in hell?
You said yes I would be.
Now you are telling me that have 1 unforgivness means that I have many more.
Truly shocking and condemning and judging.
We have been here before.
I told you about my childhood.
And you said the same and committed me to hell.
My so called Christian foster dad tried many many times to sexually abuse me, penetrate me.
I asked you "If the first time he did this and if I did not forgive him and died moment later would I be in hell?
You said yes I would be.
Now you are telling me that have 1 unforgivness means that I have many more.
Truly shocking and condemning and judging.
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No, but you have to teach and BE BORN AGAIN!
1 Corinthians 2:6-16 (NIV)
6 We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing.
7 No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began.
8 None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
9 However, as it is written: "No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him"--
10 but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God.
11 For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.
12 We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us.
13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.
14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment:
16 "For who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct him?" But we have the mind of Christ.
Now you just reminded me, if I remember right, you too refused to give us the Denomination or the Type of Church you go to, if it is Non-Denominational.
Almost all of the Mainline Denominations can agree on the central CORE of Beliefs. YET, you two cannot agree with the central CORE of Beliefs, and will not tell us what church you go to, so we can check them out via their Doctrinal Statement of Beliefs. Seems Strange to me:
Romans 1:16 (KJV)
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
1 Corinthians 2:6-16 (NIV)
6 We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing.
7 No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began.
8 None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
9 However, as it is written: "No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him"--
10 but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God.
11 For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.
12 We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us.
13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.
14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment:
16 "For who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct him?" But we have the mind of Christ.
Now you just reminded me, if I remember right, you too refused to give us the Denomination or the Type of Church you go to, if it is Non-Denominational.
Almost all of the Mainline Denominations can agree on the central CORE of Beliefs. YET, you two cannot agree with the central CORE of Beliefs, and will not tell us what church you go to, so we can check them out via their Doctrinal Statement of Beliefs. Seems Strange to me:
Romans 1:16 (KJV)
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
I agree VCO who on earth would not make a statement about what denomination they are affiliated with.
benher's fake gospel sounds so peculiar that I cannot make out from whom or where it comes from. I wish benher would end the suspense and tell us please,
benhur please tell us, "what Church denomination are you affiliated with", so we can know what theology you are teaching here on this "International Christian Forum" everyone here deserves to know.
benher's fake gospel sounds so peculiar that I cannot make out from whom or where it comes from. I wish benher would end the suspense and tell us please,
benhur please tell us, "what Church denomination are you affiliated with", so we can know what theology you are teaching here on this "International Christian Forum" everyone here deserves to know.
There you go again, assuming what you have been taught about OSAS, has been the TRUTH, and that Pastor did not know DIDDLY about our BELIEFS, only what his UNLEARNED Teacher taught him. Like I have told you numerous times, ASK US what we Believe, instead of Assuming that UNLEARNED Pastor knew what he was talking about, when describing OSAS Beliefs.
It is all about LOVE, not Works.
NO the Prodigal was NOT SAVED, he was still NOT BORN AGAIN. Sitting on a Pew does NOT MAKE YOU A CHRISTIAN.
Romans 10:14-17 (HCSB)
14 But how can they call on Him they have not believed in? And how can they believe without hearing about Him? And how can they hear without a preacher?
15 And how can they preach unless they are sent? As it is written: How beautiful are the feet of those who announce the gospel of good things!
16 But all did not obey the gospel. For Isaiah says, Lord, who has believed our message?
17 So faith comes from what is heard, and what is heard comes through the message about Christ.
He was one of those, who LEFT before he let the gospel message penetrate his heart. He was NOT YET BORN AGAIN.
Matthew12:31
Therefore I tell you, "every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men," but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.
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When I was young in the Lord, I backslide in every way possible.
I had to repent each time and come back to Him.
As I began to study more and more the Lord opened my eyes and showed me the truth.
The fear of the Lord is a fountain of life, to turn one away from the snares of death. Proverbs 14:27
Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.” John 8:31-32
JPT
I had to repent each time and come back to Him.
As I began to study more and more the Lord opened my eyes and showed me the truth.
The fear of the Lord is a fountain of life, to turn one away from the snares of death. Proverbs 14:27
Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.” John 8:31-32
JPT
Hi BillG, I have nothing but respect for you and your biblical insghts. Most of all I never ever wanted anything to happen that would come between you and I as brother's in Christ. Reconciliation accomplished.
Your a real stand up guy and I would be proud to serve in ministry with you anytime, anywhere, put it behind you bro and I will do the same. It's an honor to be your friend.
God bless
Your a real stand up guy and I would be proud to serve in ministry with you anytime, anywhere, put it behind you bro and I will do the same. It's an honor to be your friend.
God bless
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OSAS AND FAS ARE FALSE MAN MADE DOCTRINES THAT PROMOTES DISOBEDIENCE TO GOD AND REJECTS AND NULLIFIES GOD'S WORDS AND COMMANDS. (mark 7:6-13, Isaiah 5:20-24)
SO DO NOT LET ANYONE DECEIVE YOU...FOR THE WRATH OF GOD COMES ON THOSE WHO ARE DISOBEDIENT.(Ephesians 5:6)
OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST WHO IS THE SOURCE OF ETERNAL LIFE FOR THOSE WHO OBEY HIM (Hebrews 5:8-9) SAID:
Revelation 3:1-3 To the Church in Sardis “To the angel of the church in Sardis write: These are the words of him who holds the seven spirits of God and the seven stars. I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but you are dead. Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I HAVE NOT FOUND YOUR DEEDS COMPLETE in the sight of my God. Remember, therefore, what you have RECEIVED and HEARD ; OBEY IT and REPENT. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.
JESUS HAVE NOT FOUND THEIR DEEDS "COMPLETE" IN THE EYES OF GOD.
THEN HE TOLD THEM TO "OBEY" WHAT THEY RECEIVED AND HEARD AND TO REPENT.
JESUS WAS SPEAKING HERE TO ONE OF THE SEVEN CHURCHES WHO "RECEIVED AND HEARD" AND WE KNOW THAT THE "CHURCH" IS THE BODY OF CHRIST WHOM HE WILL SAVE. (eph 5:23)
WHY WILL HE SAY THAT THEIR DEEDS ARE NOT COMPLETE IF WORKS ARE NOT NECESSARY FOR SALVATION AND THAT "FAITH ALONE" SAVES?
WHY WOULD JESUS COMMAND THEM TO OBEY AND REPENT IF IT IS NO LONGER NECESSARY SINCE THEY ARE ALREADY SAVED ETERNALLY? (OSAS)
IS JESUS IGNORANT OF THIS DOCTRINE OR IS IT CONTRARY TO HIS TEACHINGS AND COMMANDS ( john 14:23-24) AND THEREFORE ARE JUST FALSE MAN MADE DOCTRINES THAT NULLIFIES GOD'S WORDS?
JESUS AND HIS FATHER REQUIRE SOME WORKS TO BE COMPLETED AND ASKED FOR OBEDIENCE AND REPENTANCE.
Romans 8:4 in order that the righteous REQUIREMENTS of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.
Malachi 3:14 “You have said, ‘It is futile to serve God. What did we gain by CARRYING OUT HIS REQUIREMENTS and going about like mourners before the Lord Almighty?
Matthew 19:17 “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. IF YOU WANT TO ENTER LIFE, OBEY THE COMMANDMENTS..”
GOD REQUIRES OBEDIENCE AND REPENTANCE IN OUR PART OTHERWISE HIS WRATH WILL COME ON THOSE WHO ARE "DISOBEDIENT".(eph 5:6 )
Luke 6:46 “Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?
John 14:15 “If you love me, you will obey what I command.
2 John 1:6 And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love.
DO NOT BE DECEIVED... GOD CANNOT BE MOCKED...WE SOW WHAT WE REAP...(Galatians 6:7-10)
"LET GOD BE TRUE..." (Romans 3:3-4)
SO DO NOT LET ANYONE DECEIVE YOU...FOR THE WRATH OF GOD COMES ON THOSE WHO ARE DISOBEDIENT.(Ephesians 5:6)
OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST WHO IS THE SOURCE OF ETERNAL LIFE FOR THOSE WHO OBEY HIM (Hebrews 5:8-9) SAID:
Revelation 3:1-3 To the Church in Sardis “To the angel of the church in Sardis write: These are the words of him who holds the seven spirits of God and the seven stars. I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but you are dead. Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I HAVE NOT FOUND YOUR DEEDS COMPLETE in the sight of my God. Remember, therefore, what you have RECEIVED and HEARD ; OBEY IT and REPENT. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.
JESUS HAVE NOT FOUND THEIR DEEDS "COMPLETE" IN THE EYES OF GOD.
THEN HE TOLD THEM TO "OBEY" WHAT THEY RECEIVED AND HEARD AND TO REPENT.
JESUS WAS SPEAKING HERE TO ONE OF THE SEVEN CHURCHES WHO "RECEIVED AND HEARD" AND WE KNOW THAT THE "CHURCH" IS THE BODY OF CHRIST WHOM HE WILL SAVE. (eph 5:23)
WHY WILL HE SAY THAT THEIR DEEDS ARE NOT COMPLETE IF WORKS ARE NOT NECESSARY FOR SALVATION AND THAT "FAITH ALONE" SAVES?
WHY WOULD JESUS COMMAND THEM TO OBEY AND REPENT IF IT IS NO LONGER NECESSARY SINCE THEY ARE ALREADY SAVED ETERNALLY? (OSAS)
IS JESUS IGNORANT OF THIS DOCTRINE OR IS IT CONTRARY TO HIS TEACHINGS AND COMMANDS ( john 14:23-24) AND THEREFORE ARE JUST FALSE MAN MADE DOCTRINES THAT NULLIFIES GOD'S WORDS?
JESUS AND HIS FATHER REQUIRE SOME WORKS TO BE COMPLETED AND ASKED FOR OBEDIENCE AND REPENTANCE.
Romans 8:4 in order that the righteous REQUIREMENTS of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.
Malachi 3:14 “You have said, ‘It is futile to serve God. What did we gain by CARRYING OUT HIS REQUIREMENTS and going about like mourners before the Lord Almighty?
Matthew 19:17 “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. IF YOU WANT TO ENTER LIFE, OBEY THE COMMANDMENTS..”
GOD REQUIRES OBEDIENCE AND REPENTANCE IN OUR PART OTHERWISE HIS WRATH WILL COME ON THOSE WHO ARE "DISOBEDIENT".(eph 5:6 )
Luke 6:46 “Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?
John 14:15 “If you love me, you will obey what I command.
2 John 1:6 And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love.
DO NOT BE DECEIVED... GOD CANNOT BE MOCKED...WE SOW WHAT WE REAP...(Galatians 6:7-10)
"LET GOD BE TRUE..." (Romans 3:3-4)
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ACTS; 3; 19; Repent ye therefore, and be converted,that your sins may be blotted out,when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of our Lord.. .................Upon conversion, your sins are blotted out, and if hey are blotted out, then there is no more sin in the future to blot out. All of it has been hidden, never to resurface again.
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