Speaking in tongues

[notuptome]

lol my dear friend the context of gen 11: 19 has notning to do with Acts the context is there in gen 11 where it stays . the context of tongues in Acts is from what Jesus said in ACts chapter 1:8 Acts 2 is the fullfillment of that and as we move through the Book of Acts the normintive can be seen. Gen 11 was not a normitive it was discriptive of God bring a type of Judgement on Nimrod. I am not picking an choosing the context of gen 11 stops at verse 9. in Verse 10 the geneology starts again. Oh yes I have my plack on the wall and still adding to it Authorial intent with in the circle of Context with in the sentance , verse, chapter book and all of the bible. You cannot innerject Gen 11 into Acts 2.

You must continue the context. Jews see unknown languages as a sign of impending judgment from Jehovah God. Tongues are not what they are perceived to be by the modern Gentile church. Tongues have never been normative. Tongues are a sign gift in Acts and Corinthians.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[shrume]

Well I think most Pentecostals have their soteriology correct. Catholics on the other hand have an incorrect soteriology and the most of them are certainly not saved. They need to hear the simple gospel message given in love every time we have the opportunity.

Based on whose judgment, Roger?

 

[notuptome]

You have to take into consideration those who call themselves Pentecostals are not all the same. UPC is oneness and outside of orthodox Christianity. Also you are not saved if you do not speak in tongues or baptized in Jesus name only. That is error. They are not Trinitarians too.

There are fringes on all denominations. It is easy to see those who have such errors in their doctrine. Those who have a false gospel are in need of salvation first then they can be discipled in the faith.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

Based on whose judgment, Roger?

False gospel. Based almost entirely on works. Grace administered by the church through the sacraments. Not grace given by God through His word and His Son Jesus.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[CS1]

You must continue the context. Jews see unknown languages as a sign of impending judgment from Jehovah God. Tongues are not what they are perceived to be by the modern Gentile church. Tongues have never been normative. Tongues are a sign gift in Acts and Corinthians.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Then why was that Not conveyed at Pentecost by Peter and insight given ? Why did he speak that this was that spoken by the Prophet Joel? Oh yes they are a normative Jesus spoke about them in Mark Acts showed the manifestation many times in the book. And Paul taught on them in 1cor 12, 13, and 14 .



There is more Normative in the gift of tongues then there is proof of Babel having context with Acts.

 

[shrume]

False gospel. Based almost entirely on works. Grace administered by the church through the sacraments. Not grace given by God through His word and His Son Jesus.

Suppose there is an old Catholic lady, been a Catholic her entire life, never known anything different, loved the Lord with everything that she is, been as faithful as the sun rising, faithful in prayer, gave of her time and finances.

You have no problem sentencing her to hell because she did not know the truth?

I think God is far more merciful and understanding than you give Him credit for, Roger.

 

[notuptome]

Suppose there is an old Catholic lady, been a Catholic her entire life, never known anything different, loved the Lord with everything that she is, been as faithful as the sun rising, faithful in prayer, gave of her time and finances.

You have no problem sentencing her to hell because she did not know the truth?

I think God is far more merciful and understanding than you give Him credit for, Roger.

Well if she does not receive Christ as her Savior and she is left to rely upon her righteousness then she will be in hell right along side the priest who told her not to pay any attention to that protestant gospel.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

Then why was that Not conveyed at Pentecost by Peter and insight given ? Why did he speak that this was that spoken by the Prophet Joel? Oh yes they are a normative Jesus spoke about them in Mark Acts showed the manifestation many times in the book. And Paul taught on them in 1cor 12, 13, and 14 .



There is more Normative in the gift of tongues then there is proof of Babel having context with Acts.

I know you cannot admit to the connection but it is there big as day.

The tongues in Acts appear quite different from the account in 1 Cor 12-14.

We can argue about the long ending of Mark but that will not be profitable. We have no account of Jesus ever praying or speaking in tongues. Jesus when asked by the apostles to teach them to pray did not teach tongues even though it was a perfect opportunity if that were the intent of prayer.

Pentecost is only a partial fulfillment of Joel 2. It should be noted that only one part of Joel 2 is addressed to all mankind while the rest is addressed to Israel in particular. All flesh receives the Holy Spirit at salvation Jew or Gentile.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[shrume]

Well if she does not receive Christ as her Savior and she is left to rely upon her righteousness then she will be in hell right along side the priest who told her not to pay any attention to that protestant gospel.

You apparently did not read what I wrote, or maybe I was not clear.

I said "loved the Lord with everything that she is", and according to what she understood, she did receive Christ as her Savior.

I think God is far more merciful, forgiving, and understanding than you give Him credit for, Roger.

 

[CS1]

I know you cannot admit to the connection but it is there big as day.

The tongues in Acts appear quite different from the account in 1 Cor 12-14.

We can argue about the long ending of Mark but that will not be profitable. We have no account of Jesus ever praying or speaking in tongues. Jesus when asked by the apostles to teach them to pray did not teach tongues even though it was a perfect opportunity if that were the intent of prayer.

Pentecost is only a partial fulfillment of Joel 2. It should be noted that only one part of Joel 2 is addressed to all mankind while the rest is addressed to Israel in particular. All flesh receives the Holy Spirit at salvation Jew or Gentile.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

there are more simularities to acts and 1cor 12, 13, and 14. as we see the Church come to be . gen 11 is not the church at all LOL.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Tongues are languages. You are creating a false narrative based on a faulty knowledge of 1 Cor 12-14.

The OT is the history of mankind and it is presented through Israel as Gods chosen people. Chosen to be the vessels through which the world receives the word of God.

In biblical context Babel has everything to do with tongues. Only with the complete context can you arrive at the correct conclusion.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

this is so far out that honestly I was thinking maybe you were joking

I actually understand the connection you are making. I do

but this teaching is not biblical and not from the Holy Spirit

we may be looking at a classic case of human reasoning trying very hard to explain why they, that is personally, do not believe

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Roger...I don't think you are thinking about your latest 'revelation' about the tower of Babel very clearly

there is a distinct contrast that you are dismissing

the tower of Babel represented the desire of men to reach God...to be God if you will and God scattered them

the day of Pentecost and tongues as described in the NT is the desire of God to fill those who respond to Him with His Spirit

you are truly making a grave error here and I no longer find it amusing if this is actually part of your doctrine on tongues

the spirit at the tower of Babel was confusion and separation but the Spirit on the day of Pentecost was unity, blessing from God and eternal life to those who accepted the message given by Peter

 

[notuptome]

there are more simularities to acts and 1cor 12, 13, and 14. as we see the Church come to be . gen 11 is not the church at all LOL.

Well then why don't you enlighten me on the similarities?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

Roger...I don't think you are thinking about your latest 'revelation' about the tower of Babel very clearly

there is a distinct contrast that you are dismissing

the tower of Babel represented the desire of men to reach God...to be God if you will and God scattered them

the day of Pentecost and tongues as described in the NT is the desire of God to fill those who respond to Him with His Spirit

you are truly making a grave error here and I no longer find it amusing if this is actually part of your doctrine on tongues

the spirit at the tower of Babel was confusion and separation but the Spirit on the day of Pentecost was unity, blessing from God and eternal life to those who accepted the message given by Peter

The giving of the Holy Spirit to witness of the saving grace of God at Pentecost was a sign to the apostate Jews not a sign of unity. You are applying rose colored glasses to the actual event. The tongues at Pentecost were heard in the ears of not the hearers in the tongues of the speakers. Tongues today based on a faulty understanding of 1 Cor is tongues in the mouth of the speaker and the hearers requiring interpretation.

Babel was judgment because of the evil in men's hearts. God used men of unknown languages to carry Israel into captivity when they became apostate. this is what the appearance of tongues at Pentecost and in Acts would have signaled to the Jews present. When Peter and Paul reported back to James and the others in Jerusalem they testified to the appearance of tongues to show that the Gentiles were receiving the same Holy Spirit as the Jews. Gentiles being added to the church was judgment of God on Israel because they denied their Messiah. Gentiles inherited the blessing God intended for Israel.

We are bound to bible history and it is centered on Israel not us Gentiles.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

You apparently did not read what I wrote, or maybe I was not clear.

I said "loved the Lord with everything that she is", and according to what she understood, she did receive Christ as her Savior.

I think God is far more merciful, forgiving, and understanding than you give Him credit for, Roger.

You do not believe God. Jesus said no man comes to the Father but by Me. God is not a respecter of persons. No amount of self righteousness will satisfy the righteousness demanded by God.

Read Romans 3 lately? None are good not even your little old Catholic lady. She is not innocent but guilty before God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[7seasrekeyed]

The giving of the Holy Spirit to witness of the saving grace of God at Pentecost was a sign to the apostate Jews not a sign of unity. You are applying rose colored glasses to the actual event. The tongues at Pentecost were heard in the ears of not the hearers in the tongues of the speakers. Tongues today based on a faulty understanding of 1 Cor is tongues in the mouth of the speaker and the hearers requiring interpretation.

Babel was judgment because of the evil in men's hearts. God used men of unknown languages to carry Israel into captivity when they became apostate. this is what the appearance of tongues at Pentecost and in Acts would have signaled to the Jews present. When Peter and Paul reported back to James and the others in Jerusalem they testified to the appearance of tongues to show that the Gentiles were receiving the same Holy Spirit as the Jews. Gentiles being added to the church was judgment of God on Israel because they denied their Messiah. Gentiles inherited the blessing God intended for Israel.

We are bound to bible history and it is centered on Israel not us Gentiles.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

do you understand how Christians are described as being one? the ONLY way they could ever possibly be so, is by the Holy Spirit who purposes to do the will of God within each believer

you are way off base and I hesitate to say it, but you almost seem to dismiss the Holy Spirit altogether except as you might see Him
enlightening you. only what you think is enlightment is confusion such as your tower of Babel theories

if you actually think, as you have been hinting at, that the Holy Spirit on Pentecost was some kind of judgement, as you say I have rose colored glasses on, then I conclude that your understanding has been darkened

we are not bound to an historical rendition of scripture

do you not know that the the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

and even now this is so

I begin to understand your opposition now better than I have before and I am sorry that you are so determined to prove God wrong

you do yourself harm in this crusade of yours

 

[shrume]

You do not believe God.

I do believe God.

Jesus said no man comes to the Father but by Me.

That woman will be saved because she believes on the Lord Jesus Christ.

God is not a respecter of persons. No amount of self righteousness will satisfy the righteousness demanded by God.

Yes, God will even save you, assuming you believe on Christ.

Read Romans 3 lately? None are good not even your little old Catholic lady. She is not innocent but guilty before God.

All of us are.

You're a dour man, Roger.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Well if she does not receive Christ as her Savior and she is left to rely upon her righteousness then she will be in hell right along side the priest who told her not to pay any attention to that protestant gospel.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

What about those who are judged according to their works? . . . "each person was judged according to what they had done"

 

[DDDo]

What lack of evidence?
Millions can and do pray in tongues.
Pretty good evidence in the real world.

Millions make nonsense noises and pretend it's tongues. There's no evidence they're really speaking in tongues. Those millions don't even know what biblical tongues is. It's not an unknown language. It's not a language of angels. It's not a prayer language. It's a human language given by God to communicate with other humans. And, it has ceased because it is no longer needed.

 

[Dino246]

Millions make nonsense noises and pretend it's tongues. There's no evidence they're really speaking in tongues. Those millions don't even know what biblical tongues is. It's not an unknown language. It's not a language of angels. It's not a prayer language. It's a human language given by God to communicate with other humans. And, it has ceased because it is no longer needed.

On what basis do you declare that "it has ceased because it is no longer needed"?