Speaking in tongues
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okay...had to stop laughing at that one
the tower of Babel ... let's see
wasn't that God saying 'no folks. you are not reaching heaven today (or any other day really)
first appearance of tongues
well, if you want to get technical, that would be when God created humans with tongues
I can't take what you said seriously Roger. I honestly can't LOL!
ps...sorry about your ego
the tower of Babel ... let's see
wasn't that God saying 'no folks. you are not reaching heaven today (or any other day really)
first appearance of tongues
well, if you want to get technical, that would be when God created humans with tongues
I can't take what you said seriously Roger. I honestly can't LOL!
ps...sorry about your ego
The confusing of the languages in Genesis has nothing to do with the manifestation of speaking in tongues, which did not exist until the day of Pentecost.
In the record of the tower of Babel, God confused their languages. He made it so they could not understand each other so they could not continue in their project.
The manifestation of speaking in tongues is one of the nine manifestations of the gift of the holy spirit. It's purpose is to edify the believer, speak divine secrets to God, give thanks well, magnify God, and more. That was not the result of God confusing the languages at Babel.
I don't know about "always", but Paul does reference the record in Isaiah. The Assyrians had captured Israel and were speaking to Israel in Assyrian (which Israel did not understand), and it should have been a sign to them. Speaking in tongues should be a sign to unbelievers that the power of God is present. But he was not saying that the Assyrians were speaking in tongues.
In the record of the tower of Babel, God confused their languages. He made it so they could not understand each other so they could not continue in their project.
The manifestation of speaking in tongues is one of the nine manifestations of the gift of the holy spirit. It's purpose is to edify the believer, speak divine secrets to God, give thanks well, magnify God, and more. That was not the result of God confusing the languages at Babel.
I don't know about "always", but Paul does reference the record in Isaiah. The Assyrians had captured Israel and were speaking to Israel in Assyrian (which Israel did not understand), and it should have been a sign to them. Speaking in tongues should be a sign to unbelievers that the power of God is present. But he was not saying that the Assyrians were speaking in tongues.
Excuse me but if God had not confused the tongues of men for their evil thoughts there would have been no tongues at Pentecost.
You need to consider the scripture and understand that God uses the sign of unknown languages as a warning of judgment to Israel. Every time they were carried away into captivity it was by a people that had language they could not understand.
The gospel is to the Jew first then to the Gentile. Israel remains Gods elect among the nations. Us Gentiles are receiving the benefits of Israel rejecting God
For the cause of Christ
Roger
You need to consider the scripture and understand that God uses the sign of unknown languages as a warning of judgment to Israel. Every time they were carried away into captivity it was by a people that had language they could not understand.
The gospel is to the Jew first then to the Gentile. Israel remains Gods elect among the nations. Us Gentiles are receiving the benefits of Israel rejecting God
For the cause of Christ
Roger
C. H. Spurgeon asks the same question as the apostle Paul: “Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed?” Did ye receive him when ye believed? Are ye receiving him now that ye are believing in Christ Jesus?”
"You know, dear friends, when the Holy Spirit was given in the earliest ages, He showed His presence by certain miraculous signs. Some of those who received the Holy Spirit spake with tongues, others began to prophesy, and a third class received the gifts of healing. I am sure that if these powers were given now you would all be anxious to possess them. You would want to be healing or to be speaking in tongues, or to be working miracles by which you would benefit your fellow men and glorify God. Now be it never forgotten that those works of the Holy Spirit which are permanent must assuredly be of greater value than those which were transitory. We cannot suppose that the Holy Ghost brought forth the best wine at first and that His operations gradually deteriorated. It is a rule of the kingdom to keep the best wine to the last; and therefore, I conclude that you and I are not left to partake of the dregs, but that those gifts of the Holy Spirit which are at this time vouchsafed to the church of God are every way as valuable as those earlier miraculous gifts which are departed from us. The work of the Holy Spirit by which men are quickened from their death in sin is not inferior to the power which made men speak in tongues. Why, sirs, men might have the gifts of the Spirit as to miracles and yet might perish after all; but he that hath the spiritual gifts of the Holy Ghost shall never perish: they are saving blessings, and where they come they lift the man out of his sinful estate, and make him to be a child of God.
I would therefore press it upon you this morning that, as you would certainly inquire whether you had the gifts of healing and miracle-working, if such gifts were now given to believers, much more should you inquire whether you have those more permanent gifts of the Spirit which are this day open to you all, by the which you shall work no physical miracle, but shall achieve spiritual wonders of the grander sort. If we come to weigh spiritual operations, they are by no means secondary in the judgment of enlightened servants of God. Have ye then received the Spirit since you believed? Beloved, are you now receiving the Spirit? Are you living under his divine influence? Are you filled with his power? Put the question personally. I am afraid some professors will have to admit that they hardly know whether there be any Holy Ghost, and others will have to confess that though they have enjoyed a little of his saving work, yet they do not know much of his ennobling and sanctifying influence. We have none of us participated in his operations as we might have done: we have sipped where we might have drunk; we have drunk where we might have bathed; we have bathed up to the ankles where we might have found rivers to swim in. Alas, of many Christians it must be affirmed that they have been naked, and poor, and miserable when they might in the power of the Holy Spirit have been clad in golden garments, and have been rich and increased in goods. He waiteth to be gracious, but we linger in indifference, like those of whom we read, “they could not enter in because of unbelief.” There are many such cases, and therefore it is not improper that I should with all vehemence press home upon you the question of the apostle, “Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed?” Did ye receive him when ye believed? Are ye receiving him now that ye are believing in Christ Jesus?"
http://www.speak-in-tongues.com/2007/06/c-h-spurgeon-on-spiritual-gifts/
"You know, dear friends, when the Holy Spirit was given in the earliest ages, He showed His presence by certain miraculous signs. Some of those who received the Holy Spirit spake with tongues, others began to prophesy, and a third class received the gifts of healing. I am sure that if these powers were given now you would all be anxious to possess them. You would want to be healing or to be speaking in tongues, or to be working miracles by which you would benefit your fellow men and glorify God. Now be it never forgotten that those works of the Holy Spirit which are permanent must assuredly be of greater value than those which were transitory. We cannot suppose that the Holy Ghost brought forth the best wine at first and that His operations gradually deteriorated. It is a rule of the kingdom to keep the best wine to the last; and therefore, I conclude that you and I are not left to partake of the dregs, but that those gifts of the Holy Spirit which are at this time vouchsafed to the church of God are every way as valuable as those earlier miraculous gifts which are departed from us. The work of the Holy Spirit by which men are quickened from their death in sin is not inferior to the power which made men speak in tongues. Why, sirs, men might have the gifts of the Spirit as to miracles and yet might perish after all; but he that hath the spiritual gifts of the Holy Ghost shall never perish: they are saving blessings, and where they come they lift the man out of his sinful estate, and make him to be a child of God.
I would therefore press it upon you this morning that, as you would certainly inquire whether you had the gifts of healing and miracle-working, if such gifts were now given to believers, much more should you inquire whether you have those more permanent gifts of the Spirit which are this day open to you all, by the which you shall work no physical miracle, but shall achieve spiritual wonders of the grander sort. If we come to weigh spiritual operations, they are by no means secondary in the judgment of enlightened servants of God. Have ye then received the Spirit since you believed? Beloved, are you now receiving the Spirit? Are you living under his divine influence? Are you filled with his power? Put the question personally. I am afraid some professors will have to admit that they hardly know whether there be any Holy Ghost, and others will have to confess that though they have enjoyed a little of his saving work, yet they do not know much of his ennobling and sanctifying influence. We have none of us participated in his operations as we might have done: we have sipped where we might have drunk; we have drunk where we might have bathed; we have bathed up to the ankles where we might have found rivers to swim in. Alas, of many Christians it must be affirmed that they have been naked, and poor, and miserable when they might in the power of the Holy Spirit have been clad in golden garments, and have been rich and increased in goods. He waiteth to be gracious, but we linger in indifference, like those of whom we read, “they could not enter in because of unbelief.” There are many such cases, and therefore it is not improper that I should with all vehemence press home upon you the question of the apostle, “Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed?” Did ye receive him when ye believed? Are ye receiving him now that ye are believing in Christ Jesus?"
http://www.speak-in-tongues.com/2007/06/c-h-spurgeon-on-spiritual-gifts/
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How on God's green earth do you make that connection, Roger?
OK. But that still has nothing to do with the manifestation of speaking in tongues.
It was always God's intent to accept the gentiles.
Gen 18:18) Seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him?
Gen 22:18) And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.
Gen 26:4) And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
Ps 72:17) His name shall endure for ever: his name shall be continued as long as the sun: and men shall be blessed in him: all nations shall call him blessed.
Gal 3:8) And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
But you're going off on a tangent. The confusing of the languages in Genesis had absolutely nothing to do with the manifestation of speaking in tongues.
OK. But that still has nothing to do with the manifestation of speaking in tongues.
It was always God's intent to accept the gentiles.
Gen 18:18) Seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him?
Gen 22:18) And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.
Gen 26:4) And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
Ps 72:17) His name shall endure for ever: his name shall be continued as long as the sun: and men shall be blessed in him: all nations shall call him blessed.
Gal 3:8) And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
But you're going off on a tangent. The confusing of the languages in Genesis had absolutely nothing to do with the manifestation of speaking in tongues.
Tongues are languages. You are creating a false narrative based on a faulty knowledge of 1 Cor 12-14.
The OT is the history of mankind and it is presented through Israel as Gods chosen people. Chosen to be the vessels through which the world receives the word of God.
In biblical context Babel has everything to do with tongues. Only with the complete context can you arrive at the correct conclusion.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
The OT is the history of mankind and it is presented through Israel as Gods chosen people. Chosen to be the vessels through which the world receives the word of God.
In biblical context Babel has everything to do with tongues. Only with the complete context can you arrive at the correct conclusion.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
the tongues in Gen is not the same thing , as you know. The context is not even the samething . But it is not " You all" , I am very much knowning the Eternal exsistance of God Spirit when is seen in Gen chapter one .
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You cannot pick and choose which context you will receive and which you will reject. You must account for the context that changes your perception of a text as well as the context that supports your perception of a text.
I assume you received some systematic theology in seminary.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
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I like C.H
Charles Spurgeon maintained that the Holy Spirit must ignite a holy passion within him for the proclamation of the gospel.
" I. First, then, we are to view the power of the Spirit in the OUTWARD AND VISIBLE DISPLAYS OF IT. The power of the Sprit has not been dormant; it has exerted itself. Much has been done by the Spirit of God already; more than could have been accomplished by any being except the Infinite, Eternal, Almighty Jehovah, of whom the Holy Spirit is one person. There are four works which are the outward and manifest signs of the power of the Spirit; creation works; resurrection works; works of attestation, or of witness; and works of grace. Of each of these works I shall speak very briefly. "
after he spoke of two other what he called "the Spirit has manifested 1 omnipotence of his power in creation works; & 2. Holy Spirit's power is to be found in the resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ.
here is three:
The third of the works of the Holy Spirit, which have so wonderfully demonstrated his power, are attestation works. I mean by this—works of witnessing. When Jesus Christ went into the stream of baptism in the river Jordan, the Holy Spirit descended upon him like a dove, and proclaimed him God's beloved son. That was what I style an attestation work. And when afterwards Jesus Christ raised the dead, when he healed the leper, when he spoke to diseases and they fled apace, when demons rushed in thousands from those who were possessed of them, it was done by the power of the Spirit. The Spirit dwelt in Jesus without measure, and by that power all those miracles were worked. These were attestation works. And when Jesus Christ was gone, you will remember that master attestation of the Spirit, when he came like a rushing mighty wind upon the assembled apostles, and cloven tongues sat upon them; and you will remember how he attested their ministry, by giving them to speak with tongues as he gave them utterance; and how, also, miraculous deeds were wrought by them, how they taught, how Peter raised Dorcas, how he breathed life into Enticus, how great deeds were wrought by the apostles as well as their Master—so that "mighty signs and wonders were done by the Holy Ghost, and many believed thereby." Who will doubt the power of the Holy Spirit after that?
Yes amen
Charles Spurgeon maintained that the Holy Spirit must ignite a holy passion within him for the proclamation of the gospel.
" I. First, then, we are to view the power of the Spirit in the OUTWARD AND VISIBLE DISPLAYS OF IT. The power of the Sprit has not been dormant; it has exerted itself. Much has been done by the Spirit of God already; more than could have been accomplished by any being except the Infinite, Eternal, Almighty Jehovah, of whom the Holy Spirit is one person. There are four works which are the outward and manifest signs of the power of the Spirit; creation works; resurrection works; works of attestation, or of witness; and works of grace. Of each of these works I shall speak very briefly. "
after he spoke of two other what he called "the Spirit has manifested 1 omnipotence of his power in creation works; & 2. Holy Spirit's power is to be found in the resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ.
here is three:
The third of the works of the Holy Spirit, which have so wonderfully demonstrated his power, are attestation works. I mean by this—works of witnessing. When Jesus Christ went into the stream of baptism in the river Jordan, the Holy Spirit descended upon him like a dove, and proclaimed him God's beloved son. That was what I style an attestation work. And when afterwards Jesus Christ raised the dead, when he healed the leper, when he spoke to diseases and they fled apace, when demons rushed in thousands from those who were possessed of them, it was done by the power of the Spirit. The Spirit dwelt in Jesus without measure, and by that power all those miracles were worked. These were attestation works. And when Jesus Christ was gone, you will remember that master attestation of the Spirit, when he came like a rushing mighty wind upon the assembled apostles, and cloven tongues sat upon them; and you will remember how he attested their ministry, by giving them to speak with tongues as he gave them utterance; and how, also, miraculous deeds were wrought by them, how they taught, how Peter raised Dorcas, how he breathed life into Enticus, how great deeds were wrought by the apostles as well as their Master—so that "mighty signs and wonders were done by the Holy Ghost, and many believed thereby." Who will doubt the power of the Holy Spirit after that?
Yes amen
lol my dear friend the context of gen 11: 19 has notning to do with Acts the context is there in gen 11 where it stays . the context of tongues in Acts is from what Jesus said in ACts chapter 1:8 Acts 2 is the fullfillment of that and as we move through the Book of Acts the normintive can be seen. Gen 11 was not a normitive it was discriptive of God bring a type of Judgement on Nimrod. I am not picking an choosing the context of gen 11 stops at verse 9. in Verse 10 the geneology starts again. Oh yes I have my plack on the wall and still adding to it Authorial intent with in the circle of Context with in the sentance , verse, chapter book and all of the bible. You cannot innerject Gen 11 into Acts 2.
Authorial intent with in the circle of Context with in the sentance , verse, chapter book and all of the bible. You cannot innerject Gen 11 into Acts 2.-
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Yes they are.
Telling me I'm wrong doesn't help. Try and explain why you think I am "creating a false narrative".
OK, I generally agree.
All you're doing is making assertions and generalities, Roger.
There was no manifestation of speaking in tongues before the day of Pentecost. The gift of the Holy SPirit that we have today (since Pentecost) did not exist prior to Pentecost (John 7:39). There is no connection between God confusing the languages at Babel and the manifestation of speaking in tongues that began on the day of Pentecost.
Telling me I'm wrong doesn't help. Try and explain why you think I am "creating a false narrative".
OK, I generally agree.
All you're doing is making assertions and generalities, Roger.
There was no manifestation of speaking in tongues before the day of Pentecost. The gift of the Holy SPirit that we have today (since Pentecost) did not exist prior to Pentecost (John 7:39). There is no connection between God confusing the languages at Babel and the manifestation of speaking in tongues that began on the day of Pentecost.
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