Not By Works

[TruthTalk]

Welcome to the "Kinder Gentler", "Not by Works" thread.

I am trying to do my part to tone down the dialog as was advised by RoboOp.

But I remain steadfast in "contending for the Faith" until God takes me home.

God bless you all....

Jude1:3
"Dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt compelled to write and
urge you to "contend for the faith" that was once for all entrusted to God's holy people.

 

[MarkWilliams]

Romans 2:5-10 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing
up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be
revealed. God “will give to each person according to what he has done.” To those who by
persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. But for
those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and
anger. There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew,
then for the Genttile; but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew,
then for the Gentile.

There's no condemnation for those who are in Christ, God's wrath has already been poured out on Jesus instead of us. True believers have nothing to fear, the above was written for the unbelievers

 

[VCO]

But the Bible says "Whosoever is born of God does not commit sin; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. " (1 John 3:9)

Looks like you're in some trouble.

Here is MacArthur's Commentary on 1 John 3:9:

3:9

The fourth reason why Christians cannot practice sin is because it is incompatible with the ministry of the Holy Spirit, who has imparted a new nature to the believer (John 3:5-8). born of God. John wrote here of the new birth (John 3:7). When people become Christians, God makes them new creatures with new natures (2 Cor. 5:17). Believers have God’s characteristics because they have been born into God’s family. This new nature exhibits the habitual character of righteousness produced by the Holy Spirit (Gal. 5:22-24). John repeats this phrase twice for emphasis. His seed. The New Birth involves the acquisition of a seed, which refers to the principle of God’s life imparted to the believer at salvation’s New Birth. John uses this image of a planted seed to picture the divine element involved in being born again. See notes on 1 Peter 1:23-25. remains. The word conveys the idea of the permanence of the New Birth which cannot be reversed, for those who are truly born again are permanently transformed into a new creation (2 Cor. 5:17; Gal. 6:15; Eph. 2:10). he cannot sin. This phrase once again conveys the impossibility of habitual sinning (see vv. 4, 6).


The MacArthur Bible Commentary.

J. Vernon McGee's Commentary:

"Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin." A child of God is given a new nature, and that new nature does not and will not commit sin. The reason that the prodigal son could not stay in the pigpen is that he was not a pig. He was a son of the Father, and he longed for the Father's house. If you are a child of God, you will want to be in the Father's house, and you will long for it.

"Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin" -- unfortunately, this gives a wrong impression here. The idea is not just one act of sin; the idea is that he does not live in sin. John has said earlier in chapter 2, "If any man [any Christian man] sin, we have an advocate with the Father" -- the believer will sin. However, John makes it very clear that it is God's will that we live without sin: "My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not" (1John 2:1). Sin is anything contrary to the will of God, but when sin comes into our lives, John says that we have an advocate with the Father, and "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness" (1John 1:9). Again, John is talking to believers, and he is saying that believers will sin. Therefore, when John says, "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin," he is saying that that new nature will not continue to live in a pigpen -- never, under any circumstances will it do that.


"For his seed remaineth in him." If you are a child of God, you have a divine nature.


Thru The Bible with J. Vernon McGee.

Dallas Theological Seminary's Commentary:

3:9. As was pointed out in connection with verse 6, adding such phrases as "continue to" and "go on" to John's statements about sinning is not justified on the basis of the Greek text. As before, the statements are absolute. One who is born of God (cf. 2:29; 4:7; 5:1, 4, 18) does not sin precisely because God's seed remains in him, and he cannot sin because he has been born of God. "God's seed" is His nature, given to each believer at salvation (John 1:13; 2 Peter 1:4). The point here is that the child partakes of the nature of his Parent. The thought of a sinless Parent who begets a child who only sins a little is far from the author's mind. As always, John dealt in stark contrasts. All sin is devilish (1 John 3:8); it does not stem from the believer's regenerate nature, God's seed, but the child of God cannot and does not sin. The explanation here is the same as that given in verse 6. The "new man" (or "new self"; Eph. 4:24; Col. 3:10) is an absolutely perfect new creation. By insisting on this point, John was seeking to refute a false conception about sin. Sin is not, nor ever can be, anything but satanic. It can never spring from what a Christian truly is at the level of his regenerate being.


The Bible Knowledge Commentary: An Exposition of the Scriptures by Dallas Seminary Faculty.

Quoting the Believer's Bible Commentary:

3:9 Verse nine repeats the impossibility of one who has been born of God going on in sin. Some Bible students think that this verse refers to the believer's new nature, and that while the old nature can and does sin, the new nature cannot sin. However, we believe that here again the apostle is contrasting the regenerate man with the unregenerate, and is speaking of constant or habitual behavior. The believer does not have the sin habit. He does not defiantly continue in sin.

The reason is that His seed remains in him. There is considerable disagreement among Bible students as to the meaning of this latter expression also. Some think that this seed refers to the new nature, others to the Holy Spirit, and still others to the word of God. All of these are true, and therefore are possible explanations. We take it that the seed refers to the new life which is imparted to the believer at the time of conversion. Here, then, is a statement that the divine life remains in the believer. He is eternally secure. Rather than being an excuse for the Christian to go out and sin, his eternal security is a guarantee he will not go on sinning. He cannot sin habitually because he has been born of God. This divine relationship precludes the possibility of continuance in sin as a lifestyle.


Believer's Bible Commentary: A Thorough, Yet Easy-to-Read Bible Commentary That Turns Complicated Theology Into Practical Understanding.

There are several commentaries by Conservative Evangelicals. I believe that last one is easiest to understand. If it was literally meaning we will NEVER EVER TO SIN AGAIN, then, why do we NEED an ADVOCATE IN HEAVEN, in 1 John 2:1? If we NEVER SIN AGAIN after we repent, then WHY is the word CONFESS in 1 John 1:9, in the PRESENT TENSE implying it is an ongoing thing to CONFESS every new sin we commit? If we can never sin again, then wasn't PAUL talking about his personal sin, a COMPLETE WASTE OF TIME, in Rom. 7:13-25?

In 1 John 3:9, it is CLEAR, that it is referring to the end of a Habitually Sinful Lifestyle, while the Propensity to SIN, our SIN NATURE, is in us until we get that GLORIFIED BODY at the Resurrection that cannot even think sin.

 

[EarthsGuest]

It does not get any plainer..........Our righteous works have ZERO to do with Salvation!

English Standard Version
he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,

Berean Study Bible
He saved us, not by the righteous deeds we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of new birth and renewal by the Holy Spirit.

Berean Literal Bible
He saved us, not by works in righteousness that we did, but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,

New American Standard Bible
He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,

King James Bible
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Then why bother doing anything?
Something obviously has to be done, otherwise you're going to be at the bottom rank.

But you can't approach the Lord by faith or work's, but by love. You see true love work's for his benefit and not your own selfish desire to faith it in.

 

[PS]

The five without oil, "the Holy Spirit", were watching, but their lamps were out of oil, they were hangers on, not saved.
But I understand your position and disagree.

1. The five were without "the Holy Spirit" They were believers waiting for the Bridegroom.
2. were watching. Were sleeping.
3. were hangers-on. Foolish believers waiting for the Bridegroom.
4. not saved. Lazy.

Everything you say is wrong.

 

[PS]

It took me a long time before I found a Church that faithfully preaches the Word of God.

My Pastor is highly educated and a very faithful teacher, nobody in our Church or anyone else has ever found a single fault with his preaching. We all benefit from his diligent studies and wealth of Biblical knowledge, so I have been blessed to be under his ministry. He is a Calvinist through and through, because Calvinism is 100% Biblical. It's far more faithful to the true meaning of Holy Scripture than any other views.

I have heard many arguments and debates by highly qualified Doctors of theology, and all of the faithful ones agree with Calvinism. Only those who like to twist the scriptures to suit their own narrow minded agenda will disagree with it.

Calvin was not Jesus.

 

[PS]

Welcome to the "Kinder Gentler", "Not by Works" thread.

I am trying to do my part to tone down the dialog as was advised by RoboOp.

But I remain steadfast in "contending for the Faith" until God takes me home.

God bless you all....

Jude1:3
"Dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt compelled to write and
urge you to "contend for the faith" that was once for all entrusted to God's holy people.

Goodbye.

 

[MarkWilliams]

Then why bother doing anything?
Something obviously has to be done, otherwise you're going to be at the bottom rank.

But you can't approach the Lord by faith or work's, but by love. You see true love work's for his benefit and not your own selfish desire to faith it in.

When a person is saved, they do everything that Jesus commands them to do, even if that means being executed for your faith. That's why we bother to do anything, it's all about obedience. Do you believe the Gospel of Jesus Christ?

 

[EarthsGuest]

When a person is saved, they do everything that Jesus commands them to do, even if that means being executed for your faith. That's why we bother to do anything, it's all about obedience. Do you believe the Gospel of Jesus Christ?

Is there any better gospel?

 

[BillG]

Election is a very controversial subject. God knows his elect and we are not God to say "such and such were never saved" as you have said regarding those in John and Jude.

It's not controversial.
Those verses I posted are in the Bible and written by John & Jude.

Eternal Security is also controversial but It doesn't stop you posting verses that you believe negate ES, or interpreting parables to the same.

 

[MarkWilliams]

Is there any better gospel?

There is another false Gospel and most Christians believe it. It says you need to repent, you need to have faith, you need to obey and you need to believe.

 

[EarthsGuest]

There is another false Gospel and most Christians believe it. It says you need to repent, you need to have faith, you need to obey and you need to believe.

1 Corinthians 13:13 NIV
And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

 

[MarkWilliams]

1 Corinthians 13:13 NIV
And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

Sadly love doesn't save, only those who believe in Jesus are saved. Nothing else will be accepted, if you believe you have kept the whole law and your salvation is 100% guaranteed.

 

[Budman]

Sorry Budman but why is PS in some trouble.
He has said he does sin

As PS seems to be another "works to retain salvation" adherent, I try to show the contradiction between what they claim for themselves and what the insist others do. The verse I quoted was in regard to the two natures we possess.

I simply wanted to show he couldn't have his cake and eat it too.

 

[Seohce]

Hi BillG, PS is a false teacher and a deceiver big time, be very careful when you read his posts they are very deceptive.

2 Timothy 2:14-19 A workman Approved by God Keep reminding them of these things. Warn them before God against quarreling about words; it is of no value, and only ruins those who listen. Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth. Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly. Their teaching will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, who have wandered away from the truth. They say that the resurrection has already taken place, and they destroy the faith of some. Nevertheless, God’s solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: “The Lord knows those who are his,” and, “Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness.”

 

[BillG]

As PS seems to be another "works to retain salvation" adherent, I try to show the contradiction between what they claim for themselves and what the insist others do. The verse I quoted was in regard to the two natures we possess.

I simply wanted to show he couldn't have his cake and eat it too.

Thanks for clarifying

 

[EarthsGuest]

Sadly love doesn't save, only those who believe in Jesus are saved. Nothing else will be accepted, if you believe you have kept the whole law and your salvation is 100% guaranteed.

Love is the only thing that saves us friend.

 

[BillG]

Love is the only thing that saves us friend.

I thought it was Jesus

 

[justpassinthrough]

How do you ever expect to arrive at the truth, when YOUR FIRST STATEMENT IS AN ERROR.


LOVE IS OBEDIENCE, it says so:

1 John 5:3 (HCSB)
3 For this is what love for God is: to keep His commands. Now His commands are not a burden,

1 John 4:8 (NJB)
8 Whoever fails to love does not know God, because God is love.

• Love requires obedience.

 

[justpassinthrough]

Love requires obedience.

Where does it say, Love requires obedience? It does not. You are teaching a false gospel to all these lovely people here.

1Corinthians13:4-8
4) Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud.
5)It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.
6} Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.
7) It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
8) Love never fails.

If you love Me, keep My commandments.
John 14:15


JPT