Are Roman Catholics Christians

[shrume]

s...,

You can believe as you wish. But, that does not comply with G-d's word and won't work.

I try to believe what God's word says.

We must live a righteous life according to G-d's commandments.

We are to do that, yes.

But what saves us is faith in Jesus Christ.

I, for one, will not take a chance on a ...little...compliance.
Please show me with scriptures where....a little.... or some...... compliance with His law be acceptable ?

Rom 10:
9) That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10) For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Acts 16:
30) And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31) And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

 

[Paul1979]

Catholics believe in the Bible but never believe that all God's words are written in the Bible. these are called traditions.

but if you will investigate more about the Catholic faith and google Catholic Apologetic then you'll know that Catholic teachings have biblical basis.

I agree with you. I agree along the same lines. The idea that the Bible is entirely "God's Word" has been destructive for Western Tradition. I am currently reading about Martin Luther and the more I do, the more I come to the conclusion that Martin Luther has destroyed the foundation of Western Culture due to his attack on the Catholic Church and Aristotle. His attack on Aristotle has done tremendous damage. I am reading the Book the Light and the Cave by Arthur Herman and his account of Martin Luther is damning.

 

[MarkWilliams]

I agree with you. I agree along the same lines. The idea that the Bible is entirely "God's Word" has been destructive for Western Tradition. I am currently reading about Martin Luther and the more I do, the more I come to the conclusion that Martin Luther has destroyed the foundation of Western Culture due to his attack on the Catholic Church and Aristotle. His attack on Aristotle has done tremendous damage. I am reading the Book the Light and the Cave by Arthur Herman and his account of Martin Luther is damning.

Have you considered reading anything other than Roman Catholic rhetoric, you would be wise to read what some of the Reformers wrote as well so you can get a balanced view.
You will never see the whole picture if you only stick to one side of the story, all you will get is half of the picture if you do.

Mankind is in a Holy War for his soul, the powers of darkness are working hard in high places to deceive the whole world so that they can take as many souls as possible to hell with them.

The devil is roaming around like a hungry lion seeking to devour anyone who is not on their guard. The Bible says, my people are destroyed for their lack of knowledge. We can't afford to take this matter lightly, it's the most sobering and important matter for every person to deal with.

God has given us everything we need to know in His Word, the Holy Bible. Don't dismiss it as having no authority because you think it's not complete or it's inaccurate. Find these so called errors and study them and you will find the answers if you pray for God to give you wisdom.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I have studied Catholicism. Where Protestants go awry with Catholics is that there is a very large gap of misunderstandings and misconceptions.

Before I started looking into Catholicism, I listened to a lot of Protestant opinions on Catholics and many other topics and what I tend to find out after doing research on the topics, is that the general opinion that many Protestants have, tend to be wrong and misguided by misunderstandings and misconceptions.

Catholics are Christian, it is ludicrous to think that Protestants are the "true" Christians and that there were a 1,000 years of non-Christians who thought they were Christians and they called themselves Catholics. Did the Catholic Church have issues, yes! But so does Protestantism and that does not make Protestants non-Christians.

Where Protestants go awry with this is that Protestants don't tend to study Catholicism. Protestants tend to gut the Catholic faith, and then make strawman arguments concerning Catholics. When you actually study that time period, it is quite fascinating. There is a lot of intellectual wrangling that has formed the intellectual foundation of the modern world.

I read one Catholic author Robert Sugenis which changed my view of Catholics and I would recommend that anyone interested in understanding Catholicism read these three books: Not by Scripture Alone, Not by Faith Alone, and Not By Bread Alone. You will get a historical, biblical, traditional, and a Catholic understanding of these issues. But what I find interesting is that he brings a lot of information together and demonstrates why they believe they what they believe.

I study Philosophy and many of the Philosophers that I read, interestingly, many of them are Catholic. Like, Jean-Luc Marion, Emmanuel Levinas, Jean Louis Chretien, John Caputo, Gianni Vattimo, and others. What is sad is that the topics these guys cover, there are almost no Protestants.

Protestants have abandoned the intellect that Catholics still hold onto and Protestants are being left behind in the fields that are very important to understanding why the world is the way it is today, like Phenomenology, Psychology of Religion, The Death of God/Nihilism, Death of God Theology, Philosophy of Religion and Phenomenology, and other similar fields. Having studied these areas, to be fair, the only two Protestants that are looking into this are Aaron Simmons and Bruce Ellis Benson that I am aware of and are published. But Catholics are miles ahead in these areas and they are influencing the people that studying it, the other group that is just as influential are Athiest.

I would recommend, read up on the Catholic Church and their doctrines, and stop taking other peoples wrong opinions on these issues. Fulton Sheen stated:
“There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church, but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”

I have come to believe he is correct.

what church you belong to does not determine who gets to heaven, Catholic and protestant does not determine who will get to heaven, the gospel will determine who will get to heaven.

there are three basic gospels,

1. Works (salvation must be earned or maintained, faiht is in work, or self. not God)

2. Grace, I am saved because I am guilty, and God has redeemed me from my sins and sealed me based on my faith in his work. and that salvation is eternal (faith is completely in God)

3. Licentious - I am saved because I said a sinners prayer, thus I can live my life however I please. it does not matter (no faith)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The main question is, who are God's elect? Are they people God predetermined will be saved, and have no choice? Or are they people who freely choose to believe?

remove the have no choice, and both are correct.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I feel you won't come to the table with an unbiased attitude.

Same be can said of you my friend. This is not a very good argument.

 

[notuptome]

what church you belong to does not determine who gets to heaven, Catholic and protestant does not determine who will get to heaven, the gospel will determine who will get to heaven.

there are three basic gospels,

1. Works (salvation must be earned or maintained, faiht is in work, or self. not God)

2. Grace, I am saved because I am guilty, and God has redeemed me from my sins and sealed me based on my faith in his work. and that salvation is eternal (faith is completely in God)

3. Licentious - I am saved because I said a sinners prayer, thus I can live my life however I please. it does not matter (no faith)

Reminds me of what Jesus said about Israel. Ye think because you have the law that you are going to inherit heaven but it is the law that testifies of Christ.

Roman Catholicism is the Gentile version of Judaism. Elaborate ritual worship but denies the blood of Christ as the only acceptable sacrifice for sin. Religious ritual in place of Gods grace.

Due to mans pride rituals are more pleasing than the simple grace of God. Pride over humility.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Reminds me of what Jesus said about Israel. Ye think because you have the law that you are going to inherit heaven but it is the law that testifies of Christ.

Roman Catholicism is the Gentile version of Judaism. Elaborate ritual worship but denies the blood of Christ as the only acceptable sacrifice for sin. Religious ritual in place of Gods grace.

Due to mans pride rituals are more pleasing than the simple grace of God. Pride over humility.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

I agree

Satan took Gods people (the jews) and turned Gods truth into a religion of ritual and tradition, and the output was phariseeism or judaism

He did the same to the NT body, and turned Gods into tradition and ritual and the output was romanism (catholic or orthodox)

the church did not learn from the mistakes of the past. and made the same mistake they did.

 

[shrume]

remove the have no choice, and both are correct.

Nobody is individually pre-determined for salvation.

 

[Enoch987]

I think Catholics are Christian. And Jehovah Witnesses too.
Mormons are on the fringe. They have added too much to scripture.
Protestants pick and choose scripture.
The best example is Luke 9:35 where God says of Jesus, "This is my chosen Son."

 

[Paul1979]

Have you considered reading anything other than Roman Catholic rhetoric, you would be wise to read what some of the Reformers wrote as well so you can get a balanced view.
You will never see the whole picture if you only stick to one side of the story, all you will get is half of the picture if you do.

I do read both sides. I read Protestant Conservatives, Protestant Liberals, I read Biblical Scholars that do not associate with Christianity, I read Orthodox and Catholic authors.

One of my favorite authors is a Jewish Biblical Scholar out of University of Georgia, Richard Elliot Friedman, his book "Who Wrote the Bible (Old Testament)" is one of the most influential books I have read. At the same time, one of my favorite Conservative Authors is George Eldon Ladd, his books on the Kingdom has been a tremendous influence on my view of the NT. Just to round it out a bit, I read Peter Enns (considered Liberal by Conservatives), I am buying books by Karl Barth because I believe his insight theologically and his response to the German Death of God theology and World War II, is very helpful in where America is today.

To paint a picture of where I am coming from and what I believe is that, Protestantism is Nihilistic, and it goes back in part, to Martin Luther's attack on Aristotle. Catholic Europe spent a good thousand years trying to settle the issue and it was settled by Thomas Aquinas (Read: The Closing of the Western Mind by Charles Freeman) and Martin Luther attacked it and it unbalanced Europe and upended it. Which led to the Reformation, 30 years war, the establishment of the State over the Church, the French Revolution, The Enlightenment, The founding of America, Napoleon, Hegel and Marx and the founding of Communism and Marxism, the unification of Germany, Bismark, World War I and World War II, the Death of God theologically and philosophically. Everything that most Christians fight against or believe against, stems from Martin Luther. Within 50 years you had the Scientific Revolution which went after the central meaning of myth that has been established up to that point (See Jordan Peterson Maps of Meaning). In my post above I mentioned that I am reading the book "The Cave and the Light" by Arthur Herman and he documents the struggle between these two men from the past 3000 years.

 

[notuptome]

I do read both sides. I read Protestant Conservatives, Protestant Liberals, I read Biblical Scholars that do not associate with Christianity, I read Orthodox and Catholic authors.

You would do better to read the bible if you wish to understand Christianity. Of course if you have not personally received Christ as your Savior you are prevented from understanding anything beyond the gospel imperative to seek eternal life through Christ Who died for your sins and rose from the dead to seal His promise.

What part of John 3:16 do you not understand?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[OstrichSmiling]

Roman Catholics today follow what was decreed centuries ago by their Council of Trent. There are many decrees published in the Council's finding though what pertains to my answer are but two in particular. The CoT decreed Faith alone and those who ascribe to that should be anathema. Anathema meant cursed by their Pope.
The CoT also decreed those who believe Christ alone saves should be Anathema.
I think that is what causes my answer to be, no. Today's Roman Catholics are not Christians. There are over 1 billion Roman Catholics in the world.

 

[oldethennew]

real and true Christians, are Christian's...

 

[KristyLove]

Mathew 23:9 " And do not call anyone on earth father, for you have one Father who is in heaven...

 

[OstrichSmiling]

real and true Christians, are Christian's...

That's rather vague as to the question itself. Would you please clarify precisely concerning Roman Catholics?

 

[Paul1979]

You would do better to read the bible if you wish to understand Christianity. Of course if you have not personally received Christ as your Savior you are prevented from understanding anything beyond the gospel imperative to seek eternal life through Christ Who died for your sins and rose from the dead to seal His promise.

What part of John 3:16 do you not understand?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

I am sure you mean well and I will take your comment as such. But, it is absolutely condescending.

You know nothing about me and assumed a lot, not in evidence.

To be quite frank, it is that type of assumption that turns me off to Christianity. The reason is, you present a very simplistic understanding and then accept that to be the standard of what a "Christian" is.

I have met many Christians, who claim to have Jesus as their "Lord and Savior" and know nothing about the Bible and can't or don't understand the Gospel, so I do not buy your assertion at all.

The idea that all we need is the Bible is ludicrous. I do not at all buy into that anti-intellectualism and I have seen and study the effects of people who just use the Bible and the biggest culprit was Martin Luther because he used that same logic to undermine the Catholic Church and Western Intellect when he said "All we need is the Bible alone, we do not need Aristotle!" and proceeded to remove his influence from European Thought, which had damnable effects that we still live with today.

So I will keep reading what I read and what "Faith" I have, I will continue to build up.

 

[Jackson123]

I agree with you. I agree along the same lines. The idea that the Bible is entirely "God's Word" has been destructive for Western Tradition. I am currently reading about Martin Luther and the more I do, the more I come to the conclusion that Martin Luther has destroyed the foundation of Western Culture due to his attack on the Catholic Church and Aristotle. His attack on Aristotle has done tremendous damage. I am reading the Book the Light and the Cave by Arthur Herman and his account of Martin Luther is damning.

Jesus say:
All God word is in the 4 verses only

[37] Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. [38] This is the first and great commandment. [39] And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. [40] On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

We are talking about principle here. All God teaching is in the Bible, and all the Bible teaching are hang on those 2 commandments.

Some catholic teaching are not hang on those 2 commandment, so catholic is not Christian.

Catholic teach not all God word in the Bible, to create a reason for lie.

Example when she teach Islam and abraham worship the same God, people will ask a question, what part of the Bible teach that doctrine, catholic will say, not all God word in the Bible. It cover their original purpose wich just to lie, to mislead people, to bring people to hell

 

[MarkWilliams]

I am sure you mean well and I will take your comment as such. But, it is absolutely condescending.

You know nothing about me and assumed a lot, not in evidence.

To be quite frank, it is that type of assumption that turns me off to Christianity. The reason is, you present a very simplistic understanding and then accept that to be the standard of what a "Christian" is.

I have met many Christians, who claim to have Jesus as their "Lord and Savior" and know nothing about the Bible and can't or don't understand the Gospel, so I do not buy your assertion at all.

The idea that all we need is the Bible is ludicrous. I do not at all buy into that anti-intellectualism and I have seen and study the effects of people who just use the Bible and the biggest culprit was Martin Luther because he used that same logic to undermine the Catholic Church and Western Intellect when he said "All we need is the Bible alone, we do not need Aristotle!" and proceeded to remove his influence from European Thought, which had damnable effects that we still live with today.

So I will keep reading what I read and what "Faith" I have, I will continue to build up.

The Gospel of Jesus Christ is very simple, God deliberately made it simple so those who are wise in their own eyes will reject it because they are looking for something complicated to deal with their complicated mind.

God has deliberately hid the truth from the proud and wise, He takes pleasure in revealing the truth to the simple and humble. The so called "Smart, Intelligent, highly educated, wise guys" are lost in their own confusion, God said they are always learning but never coming to the knowledge of the truth.

It pleases God to leave the proud like yourself in your blind and lost state, you will continue chasing knowledge but you will never find the truth. And when you die, you will be cast into hell where you will be tormented day and night for ever and ever. Because you rejected the name of the only One who could save you from your sins. You relied on your own understanding and wisdom, you rejected Gods command to repent and surrender your life and will to Him.

Cursed is he who trusts in man, for the heart of man is wicked above all things. Who is to know it, lean not on your own understanding but live by every word that proceeds from the moth of God.

 

[preston39]

I try to believe what God's word says.


We are to do that, yes.

But what saves us is faith in Jesus Christ.


Rom 10:
9) That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10) For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Acts 16:
30) And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31) And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

s....,

If you are saying ...faith...keeps us from doing the other things...and it should.....I would agree. But, hopefully you are not suggesting that we can have faith and do whatever else one wishes as a life style...? That won't work.
I am suspicious of your definition because you maintain with the crazy OSAS belief. Notwithstanding the fact that one cannot be declared saved until G-d passes judgment...after our death.