Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
823
113
I agree it is insanity, Thats why we need God in the first place. lol

Remember we are born babes in Christ, a babe has to learn to trust God, by taking steps of faith. And many never grow up they remains babes sadly.

and yes he increases your faith by proving trustworthy. So how could you lose faith in eternity based on grace, if he proves trustworthy in this lifetime every time you take those steps of faith. If anything, every time you do things by your own power (self) you fail. and sometimes, that failure is real bad. so if anything, you lose faiht in self. and your faith in God grows.
I never said you could lose faith.
Just because God says those who endure in trust to the end will be saved does not therefore mean that they will not endure in trust to the end...
 

MarkWilliams

Active member
Jun 13, 2018
408
174
43
I would rather stick to our discussion of enduring to the end to be saved.

but to answer you, The bible says our works will be tried by fire,, Some will get great reward. some will see it burnt up. David committed adultery many times over and murder, Yet david will recieve great reward and have a high [;ace in heaven. sp sin to me is not the issue. bearing fruit is
So you're saying that abstaining from sin is important but bearing fruit is very important as well.
That brings to mind the parable of the talents, I remember the master called the unfruitful servant wicked and He cast him into the outer darkness if i remember correctly. That shows how seriously God takes our obligation to be fruitful, we are not given this life to just get by and try to enjoy it. We should be doing everything in our power to glorify God in everything we do.
I think that's the sort of thing you mean by bearing fruit.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
I never said you could lose faith.
Just because God says those who endure in trust to the end will be saved does not therefore mean that they will not endure in trust to the end...
I just do not understand this line of reasoning at all. In context of what God was talking about, this makes no sense to me.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
So you're saying that abstaining from sin is important but bearing fruit is very important as well.
That brings to mind the parable of the talents, I remember the master called the unfruitful servant wicked and He cast him into the outer darkness if i remember correctly. That shows how seriously God takes our obligation to be fruitful, we are not given this life to just get by and try to enjoy it. We should be doing everything in our power to glorify God in everything we do.
I think that's the sort of thing you mean by bearing fruit.
the man who had all his reward burnt, yet escaped the flames through the fire and was still saved.

How much fruit did he produce?

15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
 
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
823
113
I just do not understand this line of reasoning at all. In context of what God was talking about, this makes no sense to me.
That's because you think that enduring to the end is a damnable work of the flesh.
I think enduring to the end is a wonderful work of God.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
That's because you think that enduring to the end is a damnable work of the flesh.
I think enduring to the end is a wonderful work of God.

No, I think enduring to the end is what it is, Suffering through tribulation, not giving up. and trusting God to carry me through to the end when he returns, And if I survive, I get to witness my lord coming with his robes dipped in blood, Watch him destroy evil, Watch him heal the earth, and watch him set up his throne in Jerusalem.

I do not know about you, But if I have this opportunity, it will give me extra hope to endure even harder, Because I only have to endure a short time (3.5 years)
 
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
823
113
Okay then. You think it means: but the one who remains physically alive to the end will remain physically alive to the end.

I think it means: because there will be no love from men and heinousnous toward each other, the love of many will grow cold, but he who endures in love and faith in God to the end will be saved.

It's okay that we disagree. :)
 
J

Jeremiah74

Guest
Revelation 22:14
14“Blessed are those doing His commands, so that the authority shall be theirs unto the tree of life, and to enter through the gates into the city
Where do we find his commands?
The Torah
 
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
823
113
Revelation 22:14
14“Blessed are those doing His commands, so that the authority shall be theirs unto the tree of life, and to enter through the gates into the city
Where do we find his commands?
The Torah
We don't follow the letter of the law, which leads to death. We have a new and lifegiving way of following the Spirit. He is a true jew who is one inwardly. The flesh/letter avails a man nothing. It is the spirit that avails a man.
The word is spirit because God is Spirit. The words I give you are spirit and truth.

The torah says not to murder. Jesus says anger in my heart is murder and that my righteousness must exceed the righteousness of teachers of the law written on tablets of stone.
 

MarkWilliams

Active member
Jun 13, 2018
408
174
43
the man who had all his reward burnt, yet escaped the flames through the fire and was still saved.

How much fruit did he produce?

15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
Very sobering verses of scripture,
Revelation 22:14
14“Blessed are those doing His commands, so that the authority shall be theirs unto the tree of life, and to enter through the gates into the city
Where do we find his commands?
The Torah
Can I ask if you are a Jew, I'm only asking because I've never heard a Christian referring to the Torah fro instruction. I have nothing against Jews, I actually have a lot of respect for them, because they have to keep something like 531 laws and that would be very hard work.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Okay then. You think it means: but the one who remains physically alive to the end will remain physically alive to the end.

I think it means: because there will be no love from men and heinousnous toward each other, the love of many will grow cold, but he who endures in love and faith in God to the end will be saved.

It's okay that we disagree. :)
The way you put it sounds aweful, and I would not really agree as it misses the whole point I was trying to make.

I think it means God giving the people at the time of great tribulation, Of which Jesus said, will be worse than any tribulation the earth has ever faced or will ever face, hope to continue to endure to trust him,

God is full of giving people hope to carry on. He does it in many places. this is one of them .
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
121
63
One thing that amazes me is how many believe that just because someone names Christ that they are a Christian....

The many that come before the throne of God boasting of their works, their right to enter the kingdom based upon said works and claim to know JESUS undoubtedly believed they were Christian as well.

As much as many like to deny this absolute truth it is the truth nonetheless....

If one believes into a false gospel which has no power to save, they are no more Christian than any other lost man on the street....
And as you have said, that is 90% of Christians, except for your little band of righteous followers of Jesus. Sorry that we other Christians even hope for salvation.
 
J

Jeremiah74

Guest
We don't follow the letter of the law, which leads to death. We have a new and lifegiving way of following the Spirit. He is a true jew who is one inwardly. The flesh/letter avails a man nothing. It is the spirit that avails a man.
The word is spirit because God is Spirit. The words I give you are spirit and truth.

The torah says not to murder. Jesus says anger in my heart is murder and that my righteousness must exceed the righteousness of teachers of the law written on tablets of stone.

2 Peter 3:14-17
14 So then, beloved ones, looking forward to this, do your utmost to be found by Him in peace, spotless and blameless,

15 and reckon the patience of our Master as deliverance, as also our beloved brother Paul wrote to you, according to the wisdom given to him,

16 as also in all his letters, speaking in them concerning these matters, in which some are hard to understand,a which those who are untaught and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do also the other Scriptures.

17 You, then, beloved ones, being forewarned, watch, lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the delusion of thelawlessness,
 
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
823
113
2 Peter 3:14-17
14 So then, beloved ones, looking forward to this, do your utmost to be found by Him in peace, spotless and blameless,

15 and reckon the patience of our Master as deliverance, as also our beloved brother Paul wrote to you, according to the wisdom given to him,

16 as also in all his letters, speaking in them concerning these matters, in which some are hard to understand,a which those who are untaught and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do also the other Scriptures.

17 You, then, beloved ones, being forewarned, watch, lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the delusion of thelawlessness,
If one follows the Spirit and walks in the Spirit, they will not have the anger in their heart that leads to outwardly murdering.
If one follows the law, they will not murder outwardly and will commend themselves for following the law while inside they are filthy.

If the inside of the cup is clean, the outside will be as well.
If the outside of the cup is clean, it is possible for the inside to be full of dead mans bones.

It is what comes from within a man that defiles him.
 
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
823
113
There is no law against the Spirit.
If you follow the Spirit you will not satisfy the lust of the flesh.
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
121
63
Don't assume you can earn your salvation by your ability to remain faithful. As quite a few in here have done.
So is it OK to do some good works without thinking that you are earning your salvation?

How does remaining faithful and enduring to the end manifest itself? This is a serious question, I would like to know what you think a person is like who is remaining faithful and enduring to the end. Thank you.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
2 Peter 3:14-17
14 So then, beloved ones, looking forward to this, do your utmost to be found by Him in peace, spotless and blameless,

15 and reckon the patience of our Master as deliverance, as also our beloved brother Paul wrote to you, according to the wisdom given to him,

16 as also in all his letters, speaking in them concerning these matters, in which some are hard to understand,a which those who are untaught and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do also the other Scriptures.

17 You, then, beloved ones, being forewarned, watch, lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the delusion of thelawlessness,
what are you trying to say?
 
J

Jeremiah74

Guest
If God does not change, neither will His Law. “My covenant I will not break, nor alter the word that has gone out of My lips” (Psalm 89:34). “I know that everything God does will endure forever; nothing can be added to it and nothing taken from it” (Ecclesiastes 3:14). “The works of his hands are faithful and just; all his precepts are trustworthy. They are steadfast for ever and ever, done in faithfulness and uprightness” (Psalm 111:7, 8).

God gave His Law to the Israelites at Mt. Sinai. Amid thunder and lightning, a thick cloud covered the mountain, and a trumpet blasted. Smoke billowed up as from a furnace and the whole mountain shook as the trumpet grew louder and louder. Moses led the Israelites out of their camp to meet with God, and every one of them trembled. Then God spoke (Exodus 19:16-19, 20:1). If this Law were to be changed, it would be reasonable to expect God Himself to announce it, and give reasons for its alteration, amid the same amount of ceremony. Yet there is no indication in Scripture of such an announcement.