Why so much confusion about salvation?

[Magenta]

OK, so you're saying Jesus is a failure. Simple as that, He died for the whole world but only a few took up His offer so He was a big let down right!

Your ignorance is astounding, but not surprising. Why do you deny that repentance is necessary? I have already stated that salvation is contingent upon repentance. That does not make God or Jesus Christ a failure, in my view. It is your view that they failed.

 

[MarkWilliams]

Here's the scripture regarding being born dead in sin:

Eph 2:1) And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Eph 2:5) Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
Col 2:13) And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

Being born dead in sin does not mean we cannot choose to believe on Jesus Christ.

I beg to differ, it sounds to me like a dead man can do nothing to effect his salvation. I'm sure there are other passages that give even more credence to TULIP

 

[Magenta]

You will find "experts" on both sides of the argument. This debate has been raging for centuries.

He is already deceived by the so-called expert doctrines of men.

 

[Magenta]

I beg to differ, it sounds to me like a dead man can do nothing to effect his salvation.

You must think Jesus was wasting His breath to begin His earthly ministry by calling men to repentance and belief It does dovetail with your believing God and Jesus Christ were failures

 

[MarkWilliams]

Your ignorance is astounding, but not surprising. Why do you deny that repentance is necessary? I have already stated that salvation is contingent upon repentance. That does not make God or Jesus Christ a failure, in my view. It is your view that they failed.

You missed the elephant in the room again. The scripture says that we are all born dead in our sins, as dead people we don't have the ability to repent. We love our sins way too much to surrender our lives to a God we don't even believe in. No smart natural man will ever believe in God, because he is born carnal and he cannot receive spiritual things. they are utter foolishness until God opens your spiritual eyes.

 

[shrume]

The natural man does not receive the things of God, for they are foolishness to him. I'm just going of memory here so bare with me, Ill get the big guns out later.

You're looking for this:

1 Cor 2:
14) But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

I will lose none of those which the Father has given me

The Father gives to Jesus those who choose to believe.

He should have said i will lose none of those in the world. I could go on but I'll come back at a later time with a sharp sword.

I'll be here...

 

[MarkWilliams]

He is already deceived by the so-called expert doctrines of men.

Don't worry, you don't deceive me for a moment. You're a member of mankind right

 

[shrume]

I beg to differ, it sounds to me like a dead man can do nothing to effect his salvation. I'm sure there are other passages that give even more credence to TULIP

If you want to be a Calvinist, fine....

But God hath decreed that I do not believe Calvinism is true. Who are you to fight what God hath decreed?

 

[Magenta]

You missed the elephant in the room again. The scripture says that we are all born dead in our sins, as dead people we don't have the ability to repent. We love our sins way too much to surrender our lives to a God we don't even believe in. No smart natural man will ever believe in God, because he is born carnal and he cannot receive spiritual things. they are utter foolishness until God opens your spiritual eyes.

If we do no have the ability to repent, we are all dead in our sins. If we cannot receive spiritual things, we are all dead in our sins. You do not even see your contradictions, do you? I see you have come to conclusions while pretending you have not.

 

[shrume]

You missed the elephant in the room again. The scripture says that we are all born dead in our sins, as dead people we don't have the ability to repent.

That's where you're wrong.

God wants the wicked to turn from their evil ways so they might live (Eze 33:11).

We love our sins way too much to surrender our lives to a God we don't even believe in.

"The fool says in his heart 'there is no God'". Also, see Rom 1.

No smart natural man will ever believe in God

Lots of smart natural men have believed in God.

because he is born carnal and he cannot receive spiritual things. they are utter foolishness until God opens your spiritual eyes.

There are many aspects of spiritual truths that people cannot understand without having the spirit. But ANYONE can choose to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[MarkWilliams]

If you want to be a Calvinist, fine....

But God hath decreed that I do not believe Calvinism is true. Who are you to fight what God hath decreed?

OK, you will need to show me your colors. Please list the relevant scriptures which you think teach against Calvinist theology. No hurry, I've gotta go now but I'd like to see them later on.

 

[shrume]

OK, you will need to show me your colors. Please list the relevant scriptures which you think teach against Calvinist theology. No hurry, I've gotta go now but I'd like to see them later on.

I have already given you several. But I will provide more later. Right now I have some things to take care of, too.

Later.

 

[Magenta]

If you want to be a Calvinist, fine....

But God hath decreed that I do not believe Calvinism is true. Who are you to fight what God hath decreed?

They contradict themselves at every turn

 

[MarkWilliams]

If we do no have the ability to repent, we are all dead in our sins. If we cannot receive spiritual things, we are all dead in our sins. You do not even see your contradictions, do you? I see you have come to conclusions while pretending you have not.

Yes, we are all born dead in our sins and God chose to give some of us repentance, faith and salvation. We never would have chosen any of these if god simply left us dead in our sins like he does with the other 90% of the worlds population. You can't appreciate how blesses you are if you're truly saved.

 

[Magenta]

Yes, we are all born dead in our sins and God chose to give some of us repentance, faith and salvation. We never would have chosen any of these if god simply left us dead in our sins like he does with the other 90% of the worlds population. You can't appreciate how blesses you are if you're truly saved.

God draws all men to Himself. Your error is in thinking it is His failure that men do not respond.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

If He meant the whole world then I don't believe Him, because He failed since the majority are going to hell

Notice the word might. He provided a way for all to be saved, but no guarantees that all will avail themselves of it.

 

[dcontroversal]

"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

2889 [e] kosmon κόσμον, world, N-AMS

kosmos: order, the world
Original Word: κόσμος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: kosmos
Phonetic Spelling: (kos'-mos)
Short Definition: the world, universe
Definition: the world, universe; worldly affairs; the inhabitants of the world; adornment.

 

[dcontroversal]

and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.

2889 [e] kosmou κόσμου. world. N-GMS

kosmos: order, the world
Original Word: κόσμος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: kosmos
Phonetic Spelling: (kos'-mos)
Short Definition: the world, universe
Definition: the world, universe; worldly affairs; the inhabitants of the world; adornment.

 

[dcontroversal]

For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.

 

[Nehemiah6]

If He meant the whole world then I don't believe Him, because He failed since the majority are going to hell

That is an outrageous statement.

God and Christ do not fail. But sinners who fail to obey the Gospel fail to be saved.

There are two conditions that God has placed on receiving His salvation -- repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ. One of them is mentioned in the next verse:

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

How can you then talk about God's failure?

So if you do not believe the words of Christ as recorded in the Bible, then you are facing a very BIG PROBLEM.