Why so much confusion about salvation?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
If you are not saved through faith in Jesus Christ alone why bother being Christian? The main difference between Christianity and the world religions is that they all rely on works for salvation. Its not a free gift. One has to be ''good enough'' to be accepted by whatever God is believed in. This is also a popular misconception among none believers and those who advocate adhering to aspects of Judaism.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dcontroversal and Nehemiah6
tanakh said:
If you are not saved through faith in Jesus Christ alone why bother being Christian? The main difference between Christianity and the world religions is that they all rely on works for salvation. Its not a free gift. One has to be ''good enough'' to be accepted by whatever God is believed in. This is also a popular misconception among none believers and those who advocate adhering to aspects of Judaism.
Click to expand...

t....,

That is a catch 22; one is not/cannot be a Christian unless he is repented and baptized..
 
tanakh said:
If you are not saved through faith in Jesus Christ alone why bother being Christian? The main difference between Christianity and the world religions is that they all rely on works for salvation. Its not a free gift. One has to be ''good enough'' to be accepted by whatever God is believed in. This is also a popular misconception among none believers and those who advocate adhering to aspects of Judaism.
Click to expand...
This is so fundamental, yet there are many who simply cannot grasp this truth.

Yes, all others religions (including False Christianity) teach their adherents that they must earn their salvation. It is only Bible Christianity which proclaims that no one can earn their salvation, therefore eternal life is God's GIFT to those who repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

Undoubtedly it is not easy for sinful human beings to understand the infinite grace of God. According to the world "There is no free lunch". But that grace is offered to sinners only because of who Christ is and what He has accomplished for our salvation.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Embankment
Nehemiah6 said:
That is an outrageous statement.

God and Christ do not fail. But sinners who fail to obey the Gospel fail to be saved.

There are two conditions that God has placed on receiving His salvation -- repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ. One of them is mentioned in the next verse:

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

How can you then talk about God's failure?

So if you do not believe the words of Christ as recorded in the Bible, then you are facing a very BIG PROBLEM.
Click to expand...
I guess it comes down to which scriptures you want to go with, as they can be understood in a way that supports both opposing views. Some rad like there's a limited predestined number to be saved, while others sound like the whole world will be saved.
 
MarkWilliams said:
I guess it comes down to which scriptures you want to go with, as they can be understood in a way that supports both opposing views. Some rad like there's a limited predestined number to be saved, while others sound like the whole world will be saved.
Click to expand...

Or maybe you're not understanding what both are saying.....yeah...I think that is it.....
 
MarkWilliams said:
They fully oppose each other, you can't have it both ways. You only fool yourself when you try
Click to expand...

No actually BOTH are biblical when viewed in context and when all scripture is taken into context regardless of you ability to see it or even understand it....

This is what you said....
Some rad like there's a limited predestined number to be saved, while others sound like the whole world will be saved.

The bible makes it clear that Christ is the savior of the WHOLE WORLD and that it is OPEN unto ALL MEN and God would have ALL men be saved and come unto the knowledge of the truth...

IT also states that MANY are called but FEW CHOSEN

It also states that those he calls he justifies, those he justifies he sanctifies

It also states that GOD predetermined before the casting down of the world that ALL who would come to him through Christ WOULD be RECEIVED (CHOSEN) in Christ as full grown sons and that this was done before the casting down of the world...

I can think of a plethora of scripture that proves the concepts that you are not grasping....
 
  • Like
Reactions: eternally-gratefull
MarkWilliams said:
They fully oppose each other, you can't have it both ways. You only fool yourself when you try
Click to expand...
MarkWilliams said:
They fully oppose each other, you can't have it both ways. You only fool yourself when you try
Click to expand...


M....,

You possess a major problem with scriptural understanding.

I would highly recommend that you discard what you think you understand of scriptures and begin with the NT and study the Bible again. As you progress...mark down an area that is not clear and then proceed to find a complete explanation of that question. When you complete a thorough study you will have a different understanding of scriptures than what you illustrate here.

Just trying to help.
 
preston39 said:
M....,

You possess a major problem with scriptural understanding.

I would highly recommend that you discard what you think you understand of scriptures and begin with the NT and study the Bible again. As you progress...mark down an area that is not clear and then proceed to find a complete explanation of that question. When you complete a thorough study you will have a different understanding of scriptures than what you illustrate here.

Just trying to help.
Click to expand...
You can study all you like and you will still have to chose one of the opposing views. The best and most experienced Bible theologians take opposing views on the question of salvation by election or works.
 
MarkWilliams said:
I guess it comes down to which scriptures you want to go with, as they can be understood in a way that supports both opposing views. Some rad like there's a limited predestined number to be saved, while others sound like the whole world will be saved.
Click to expand...
God has one CONSISTENT PLAN OF SALVATION and all Scriptures from Genesis to Revelation will conform to that plan. So there are no conflicting Scriptures.

1. Salvation is for all humanity, therefore the Gospel must be preached to "every creature".

2. Consequently God does not choose some for salvation.

3. But all must repent and believe -- all must obey the Gospel to be saved.

4. Those who obey the Gospel are saved.

5. Those who do not are damned.

6. God is no respecter of persons
 
MarkWilliams said:
You can study all you like and you will still have to chose one of the opposing views. The best and most experienced Bible theologians take opposing views on the question of salvation by election or works.
Click to expand...

M...,

Your lack of biblical understanding allows you to think that way. Be guided by the Bible.

See you are addressing an item not with The Bible....but, human views. Be guided by your study of scriptures as revealed by the Holy Spirit.
 
Nehemiah6 said:
God has one CONSISTENT PLAN OF SALVATION and all Scriptures from Genesis to Revelation will conform to that plan. So there are no conflicting Scriptures.

1. Salvation is for all humanity, therefore the Gospel must be preached to "every creature".

2. Consequently God does not choose some for salvation.

3. But all must repent and believe -- all must obey the Gospel to be saved.

4. Those who obey the Gospel are saved.

5. Those who do not are damned.

6. God is no respecter of persons
Click to expand...

1Cor. 15:22

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

Who are the all in Christ ??

Sure God is not a respecter of persons but we need to define this word from the Bible and not from our understanding.
 
carl11 said:
1Cor. 15:22

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

Who are the all in Christ ??

Sure God is not a respecter of persons but we need to define this word from the Bible and not from our understanding.
Click to expand...
Obviously the "all" here is a reference to "all who are in Christ". Which means all children of God, not the unsaved.

Those who are saved have responded to the Gospel and believed on the Lord Jesus Christ. They were not chosen for salvation while others were chosen for damnation.
 
Nehemiah6 said:
God has one CONSISTENT PLAN OF SALVATION and all Scriptures from Genesis to Revelation will conform to that plan. So there are no conflicting Scriptures.

1. Salvation is for all humanity, therefore the Gospel must be preached to "every creature".

2. Consequently God does not choose some for salvation.

3. But all must repent and believe -- all must obey the Gospel to be saved.

4. Those who obey the Gospel are saved.

5. Those who do not are damned.

6. God is no respecter of persons
Click to expand...
Your right, there are no conflicting Scriptures. But there are many different ways to understanding, that's why the Church is split into many different confessions of faith.
I agree with the Calvinist view because it makes the most sense to me, the Bible says we are born dead in our sin so a dead man can't choose to believe until God gives him life and the truth.
The Gospel is foolishness to intelligent people, it's only for the simple. An intelligent person will never choose to believe or repent, the things are foolishness to those who are perishing.
Salvation is 100% of God, all we contribute is a dead corpse. He is the author and finisher of our faith
 
Nehemiah6 said:
Obviously the "all" here is a reference to "all who are in Christ". Which means all children of God, not the unsaved.

Those who are saved have responded to the Gospel and believed on the Lord Jesus Christ. They were not chosen for salvation while others were chosen for damnation.
Click to expand...
How do you get around the, "I have chosen some to honor and others to dishonor" and Esau I have hated, whilst he was still in the womb.
 
MarkWilliams said:
I agree with the Calvinist view because it makes the most sense to me...
Click to expand...
Except that it teaches limited atonement -- that Christ died only for the elect. That contradicts God, Christ, and the Bible. Anything which contradicts God cannot be from God.

1 JOHN 2
1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

What does this means? It means that Jesus Christ the righteous is the TOTALLY SATISFACTORY SACRIFICE (propitiation) not only for our sins (the sins of believers) but for the sins of THE WHOLE WORLD. (all the inhabitants of the world). So there goes Calvinism and its false gospel.
 
Nehemiah6 said:
Except that it teaches limited atonement -- that Christ died only for the elect. That contradicts God, Christ, and the Bible. Anything which contradicts God cannot be from God.

1 JOHN 2
1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

What does this means? It means that Jesus Christ the righteous is the TOTALLY SATISFACTORY SACRIFICE (propitiation) not only for our sins (the sins of believers) but for the sins of THE WHOLE WORLD. (all the inhabitants of the world). So there goes Calvinism and its false gospel.
Click to expand...

But if it is every single person in the world then Hitler would be saved person, Jack the Ripper also and so forth.
 
Nehemiah6 said:
Except that it teaches limited atonement -- that Christ died only for the elect. That contradicts God, Christ, and the Bible. Anything which contradicts God cannot be from God.

1 JOHN 2
1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

What does this means? It means that Jesus Christ the righteous is the TOTALLY SATISFACTORY SACRIFICE (propitiation) not only for our sins (the sins of believers) but for the sins of THE WHOLE WORLD. (all the inhabitants of the world). So there goes Calvinism and its false gospel.
Click to expand...
That's taking a position of ignorence, you don't accept the whole counsel of God. The world in that sens means, the Gentiles as well.
He said, I will not lose any the Father has given me.
Also, according to you Jesus failed in His attempt to save the world. He wasted His time dying on the cross, He suffered so much only to fail. I don't believe in a loser Jesus, the Jesus I believe is a victorious King of Kings. He perfectly accomplished, the work His Father gave Him to do. He saved those who's names are written in the Lambs book of life. The rest are condemned to eternal torment in hell fire
 
carl11 said:
But if it is every single person in the world then Hitler would be saved person, Jack the Ripper also and so forth.
Click to expand...
Have you forgotten what God's conditions are for sinners to be saved? Every single person must meet those conditions.

Your confusion (and that of many others) is that because Christ died for the sins of the whole world, everyone MUST BE AUTOMATICALLY saved. But that is not what is taught in Scripture. Both Calvinism and Universalism are false.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back