Is eternal torment in hell fire Biblical
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People will say that death does not mean death 
Death becomes not death but rather existence. Albeit an existence of torture, but an existence nevertheless.
Death is the opposite of existence.
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Hello Stunnedbygrace,
I think that the problem is not understanding the definition of life and death, which are both states of conscious existence.
The word "death" throws people off in that they relate it to non-existence. However, the combined scriptures do not support this.
Both life and death are states of existence in their relation to God. Death is an existing, conscious state in separation from God and punishment in the lake of fire. It has nothing to do with unconsciousness, non-existence or annihilation. For example, scripture states that those who worship the beast, his image and receive his mark, the smoke of their torment will ascend up forever and ever and they will have no rest day or night. An individual would have to be existing in order to experience that state of torment.
We also have the information that can be gleaned from the rich man and Lazarus, where both men were said to have died, yet their spirits were in Sheol/Hades conscious and aware. Abraham, Lazarus and the rest of the OT saints were in a place of comfort. While the rich man and others were said to be in torment in flame. The point being that, after the death of their bodies their spirits were/are conscious and aware.
Then we have Jesus on the cross saying to the man next to him, "today you will be with me in paradise." This would beg the question that, since Jesus and the man died that very day, how could Jesus promise that the man that he would be with him in paradise. One would have to be existing in order to experience paradise. Jesus was speaking about their spirits departing from the body and going to the same place that Abraham and Lazarus were, that place of comfort. And of course after three days, Jesus spirit returned to his body and he rose up.
We also have an example of the future opening of the 5th seal where there will be the souls of those under the altar who will have been killed by those on the earth. They are conscious and aware and are having a conversation with the Lord and are given white robes to wear.
It is by the comparing and cross-referencing of scripture that we can come to a right conclusion on every Biblical topic.
I think that the problem is not understanding the definition of life and death, which are both states of conscious existence.
The word "death" throws people off in that they relate it to non-existence. However, the combined scriptures do not support this.
Both life and death are states of existence in their relation to God. Death is an existing, conscious state in separation from God and punishment in the lake of fire. It has nothing to do with unconsciousness, non-existence or annihilation. For example, scripture states that those who worship the beast, his image and receive his mark, the smoke of their torment will ascend up forever and ever and they will have no rest day or night. An individual would have to be existing in order to experience that state of torment.
We also have the information that can be gleaned from the rich man and Lazarus, where both men were said to have died, yet their spirits were in Sheol/Hades conscious and aware. Abraham, Lazarus and the rest of the OT saints were in a place of comfort. While the rich man and others were said to be in torment in flame. The point being that, after the death of their bodies their spirits were/are conscious and aware.
Then we have Jesus on the cross saying to the man next to him, "today you will be with me in paradise." This would beg the question that, since Jesus and the man died that very day, how could Jesus promise that the man that he would be with him in paradise. One would have to be existing in order to experience paradise. Jesus was speaking about their spirits departing from the body and going to the same place that Abraham and Lazarus were, that place of comfort. And of course after three days, Jesus spirit returned to his body and he rose up.
We also have an example of the future opening of the 5th seal where there will be the souls of those under the altar who will have been killed by those on the earth. They are conscious and aware and are having a conversation with the Lord and are given white robes to wear.
It is by the comparing and cross-referencing of scripture that we can come to a right conclusion on every Biblical topic.
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Good point PennEd. I also make mention of the fact that, for all of these people who have committed suicide, their intention is to be free of their problems in this life by fading to black and becoming non-existent. If annihilation in the lake of fire were true, then God would be giving those people exactly what they wanted in the first place. It wouldn't be much of a punishment at all to simply be annihilated.
Thank you Mark for saying so. It is refreshing to hear, since there are many who say that I am speaking from my own understand instead of through scripture, even though I always provide the scripture to back up my claim.
Regarding your pastor's teachings, my prayer has been that God would bless you with the knowledge of His word as you search for the answers.
Regarding your pastor's teachings, my prayer has been that God would bless you with the knowledge of His word as you search for the answers.
Oh my gosh, penned!! Where have you been?? Hi there.
What verse are you referring to here?
Hi there.What verse are you referring to here?
Matthew 26:24 is one place.
If Judas ceases to have conscious existence, it would be exactly as if he had never been born. So why would Jesus day it would be better for him if he had never been born? Jesus is also describing that his punishment is going to be worse than others.