Is eternal torment in hell fire Biblical

[MarkWilliams]

I have no problem with anyone believing death is a state of existing. I allow men to believe what they believe. I don't believe death is a state of existing. I believe it is a state of not existing. I believe death and life are opposites.

I believe there are two deaths possible for every man. And I just don't believe the second death is existence/life of any sort.

But what I mostly don't believe is that men are born with eternal life within them. And I believe the only eternal life there is is in Jesus. I believe He IS eternal life and that no man will experience eternal life without or apart from Him. I believe the only life a man experiences apart from Jesus, (who IS eternal life), is a brief and temporary life on earth.

As a Christian I don't have the privilege of having my own opinion. I have been commanded to believe every word that proceeds from the mouth of God, no matter how difficult it is to accept.
The bible tells us not to lean on our own understanding, it tells us men who trust men are cursed.
We are commanded to live by faith, I believe it's because the supernatural things of God are too deep and to big for us to understand them so we need to accept them by faith.

 

[Magenta]

I have no problem with anyone believing death is a state of existing. I allow men to believe what they believe. I don't believe death is a state of existing. I believe it is a state of not existing. I believe death and life are opposites.

So do I. Nothing could be plainer!

I believe there are two deaths possible for every man. And I just don't believe the second death is existence/life of any sort.

Neither do I

But what I mostly don't believe is that men are born with eternal life within them. And I believe the only eternal life there is is in Jesus. I believe He IS eternal life and that no man will experience eternal life without or apart from Him. I believe the only life a man experiences apart from Jesus, (who IS eternal life), is a brief and temporary life on earth.

Too many promote the lie of Satan at the heart of the fall of all creation

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Your right, we tend to hold on to our views as if they were the only ones that matter. A wise person appreciates correction, so it's a good thing that we can learn from each others experience and strengths

Some of us have been talking about you amongst ourselves markwilliams. You have grabbed our hearts with your openness and meekness. We don't want you to be ruined by the ones who get nasty with each other in here and who act arrogantly in the discussions. We've prayed for you. You have refreshed us with your lack of any sort of guile. We feel protective of you.

It's okay to disagree. It's never okay to do it in arrogance and without love and a bearing with each other. You will learn who to ignore because they are always slinging nastiness and always desiring to speak and never listen and consider.

We are very happy to have you as our brother. We have thanked God for giving you to us. You have taught us already even though you may think you haven't.

 

[Magenta]

In the New Testament, "perish", "destroy", "destruction" DO NOT mean annihilation, but eternal ruin, eternal loss of well being, eternal torment in the Lake of Fire. No one is vaporized.

Therefore we have these solemn words of Christ in Matthew 5:
29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

I am surprised you have any limbs left And how can you see to type? Obviously you are not doing as Jesus solemnly said.

 

[MarkWilliams]

Some of us have been talking about you amongst ourselves markwilliams. You have grabbed our hearts with your openness and meekness. We don't want you to be ruined by the ones who get nasty with each other in here and who act arrogantly in the discussions. We've prayed for you. You have refreshed us with your lack of any sort of guile. We feel protective of you.

It's okay to disagree. It's never okay to do it in arrogance and without love and a bearing with each other. You will learn who to ignore because they are always slinging nastiness and always desiring to speak and never listen and consider.

We are very happy to have you as our brother. We have thanked God for giving you to us. You have taught us already even though you may think you haven't.

Jesus taught us not to judge each other, I believe we're all on different stages of our journey with the Lord. He taught us to love our neighbour as ourselves, so I would be a hypocrite if I abused someone for having a different view.
Let every man be a liar and let God be true, it's not my job to give the increase. We plant and water while God gives the increase, I have been blessed to learn so much in such a short time thanks to my brothers and sisters here.

 

[Magenta]

As a Christian I don't have the privilege of having my own opinion. I have been commanded to believe every word that proceeds from the mouth of God, no matter how difficult it is to accept.
The bible tells us not to lean on our own understanding, it tells us men who trust men are cursed.
We are commanded to live by faith, I believe it's because the supernatural things of God are too deep and to big for us to understand them so we need to accept them by faith.

As believers, none of us needs to worry about hell. Perfect love casts out fear. We have placed our faith in the propitiatory sacrifice Jesus Christ made on our behalf out of His great love for us, when He poured out His righteous blood on the cross to save us from the consequence of sin (death) that we might have a life more abundant through Him

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

As a Christian I don't have the privilege of having my own opinion. I have been commanded to believe every word that proceeds from the mouth of God, no matter how difficult it is to accept.
The bible tells us not to lean on our own understanding, it tells us men who trust men are cursed.
We are commanded to live by faith, I believe it's because the supernatural things of God are too deep and to big for us to understand them so we need to accept them by faith.

You don't know me well yet. Nothing I stated has been arrived at without scriptures. It is not just my own opinions.
You may come to see that you disagree with my interpretation of some scriptures, but you will also come to see that what I think has been come to WITH scriptures. I haven't given them all, but I do have the scriptures that have formed my opinions.

Every scripture has another one that is in tension to it. They appear to be conflicting to us, but they can be fit together. I am always working to fit them together in understanding rather than trying to choose one to favor over the other. And if I can't fit them together, I refuse to state one but ignore the other one that seems to conflict.

 

[MarkWilliams]

As believers, none of us needs to worry about hell. Perfect love casts out fear. We have placed our faith in the propitiatory sacrifice Jesus Christ made on our behalf out of His great love for us, when He poured out His righteous blood on the cross to save us from the consequence of sin (death) that we might have a life more abundant through Him

That's a very comforting thought but I'm not concerned about my salvation. I trust Jesus 100% when He said He woulkd lose none of those which the Father gave Him.
My concern is for those who don't know the Lord as their savior and those who made a profession of faith but left room for doubt such as my late brother.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

That's a very comforting thought but I'm not concerned about my salvation. I trust Jesus 100% when He said He woulkd lose none of those which the Father gave Him.
My concern is for those who don't know the Lord as their savior and those who made a profession of faith but left room for doubt such as my late brother.

You have to trust Him with everyone else as much as you trust Him with yourself. He is merciful and good and can be trusted to always do what is right.

I've really enjoyed talking with all of you in here today. It's 2 a.m. here! Time for old ladies to sleep!

 

[MarkWilliams]

You don't know me well yet. Nothing I stated has been arrived at without scriptures. It is not just my own opinions.
You may come to see that you disagree with my interpretation of some scriptures, but you will also come to see that what I think has been come to WITH scriptures. I haven't given them all, but I do have the scriptures that have formed my opinions.

Every scripture has another one that is in tension to it. They appear to be conflicting to us, but they can be fit together. I am always working to fit them together in understanding rather than trying to choose one to favor over the other. And if I can't fit them together, I refuse to state one but ignore the other one that seems to conflict.

I'm sure you would agree there are some scriptures are written in such a way that only the Holy Spirit can reveal their true meaning to us. They are not discerned, using one's intellect or wealth of knoledge. God has deliberatley chosen to be that way so certain people wouldn't be able to recieve them.
The Holy Scriptures are given to Gods people, the reprobate scoff and laugh at them and call them foolishness. Just as the Bible said they would, the word of God is foolishness to those who are perishing.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Too many promote the lie of Satan at the heart of the fall of all creation

This rattled me a bit.
It IS a sort of continuation of that lie...
Yikes moment...

 

[OneFaith]

So you would say that folks can't claim that the Bible says that those who died outside of Christ will cease to exist in the lake of fire which is the second death. I can see why the idea of annihilation is attractive, it's a good plan B for those who are false believers

Every soul will never cease to exist whether they obey God or not, it is only a matter of where they will exist- heaven or hell.

 

[Magenta]

That's a very comforting thought but I'm not concerned about my salvation. I trust Jesus 100% when He said He woulkd lose none of those which the Father gave Him.
My concern is for those who don't know the Lord as their savior and those who made a profession of faith but left room for doubt such as my late brother.

I am very sorry to hear about your brother's passing Some of your questions may never be answered to your satisfaction during this life time. My condolences to you, your family, and all who loved your brother. I pray that love sustains you.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

I'm sure you would agree there are some scriptures are written in such a way that only the Holy Spirit can reveal their true meaning to us. They are not discerned, using one's intellect or wealth of knoledge. God has deliberatley chosen to be that way so certain people wouldn't be able to recieve them.
The Holy Scriptures are given to Gods people, the reprobate scoff and laugh at them and call them foolishness. Just as the Bible said they would, the word of God is foolishness to those who are perishing.

I agree. He reveals the spirit of the word.

He is always teaching us. Even when you hear all of the differing opinions and interpretations of scripture in here, He is guiding you and renewing your mind and thinking, so that you will arrive at a balanced view rather than veering to one extreme and ignoring the other. You will see a lot of arguing over the two extremes rather than fitting the verses together. There are ditches on both sides of the road that a man can fall into.

 

[Magenta]

This rattled me a bit.
It IS a sort of continuation of that lie...
Yikes moment...

It is EXACTLY the lie: And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die.

 

[Nehemiah6]

I am surprised you have any limbs left And how can you see to type? Obviously you are not doing as Jesus solemnly said.

Why did you dodge the issue with this smart remark? Focus on the truth about Hell (Gehenna = Lake of Fire). There is no annihilation in the Lake of Fire, and no one is vaporized.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

So you would say that folks can't claim that the Bible says that those who died outside of Christ will cease to exist in the lake of fire which is the second death. I can see why the idea of annihilation is attractive, it's a good plan B for those who are false believers

I don't think false believers have that plan B ever enter their minds.

And I don't think ceasing to exist, to live, is an attractive thought at all. Most men would rather live in great miseries than to part with their life. If it weren't so, they would not fight dying so strenuously.

 

[Magenta]

There are ditches on both sides of the road that a man can fall into.

One mile of road, two miles of ditches

 

[Magenta]

Why did you dodge the issue with this smart remark? Focus on the truth about Hell (Gehenna = Lake of Fire). There is no annihilation in the Lake of Fire, and no one is vaporized.

Why must you make up things to try to make a point?

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

It is EXACTLY the lie: And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die.

Yes, you're right. It is exactly.
Except...men are applying it to other men rather than themselves...
What would be the purpose of that...?