Is it true as is or is it not?

[oldethennew]

real or robotic/elec. influenced???
'sad face'!

 

[CS1]

I do not see the Biblical context to this thread Please post it in New od Mis fourm Thank you

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Okay that was the first time I had a thread that I posted censored and removed without explanation. I was going to point out, what I see as a flaw in many people's interpretation of scripture, but since they did not allow me the opportunity, I'll try to do that in this post.

There are many statements or proclamations Jesus made that He himself said were true, but I have noticed that many have to add to what Jesus said to make it what they believe to be the truth rather than leaving it as is.

For example in Mark 11: 23 and 24 Jesus said "for verily I say unto you that whosoever shall say unto this mountain be thou removed and be thou cast into the sea and shall not doubt in his heart but she'll believe that those things which he said shall come to pass he shall have whatsoever he saith.
Therefore I say unto you what things soever you desire When you pray believe that you receive them and you shall have them."

And again in John 14 verses 12 through 14 he States "verily verily I say unto you he that believeth on me the works that I do shall he do also and Greater Works than these shall he do because I go onto my father.
And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name that will I do that the father may be glorified in the son.
If you shall ask anything in my name I will do it."

With many here on CC, they add 1st John 5 verses 14 and 15 which states "and this is the confidence that we have in him that if we ask anything according to his will he heareth us:
And if we know that he hear us whatsoever we ask we know that we have the petitions that we desire of him."

And so they will add this scripture to the promises of Jesus to make it what they believed to be the truth.

What I would like to know is why add to scripture that Jesus said was the truth, as is?

Basically what they are saying when they have to add to scripture that Jesus already said was true, is that he spoke a half-truth, and in order to make it the whole truth or the whole counsel of God, they inject the will of God into those promises to somehow keep it in the context in which it was made, but that is only for the promises regarding the Believers getting what they want, such as healing for either themselves or a loved one.

For some reason they do not apply it to scripture dealing with salvation.

So the example below is basically what they are saying Jesus is doing.

I tell you this is a true statement and it actually happened.

A few years ago I fasted for nine straight months eating nothing but drinking water only.

I know most of you would say right off the bat that the statement I made is preposterous and impossible in the natural. Which, in and of itself, is impossible.

Like I said the above statement is true I did Fast for 9 months eating no food but drinking water only,...
That is, I did so before 6 in the evening, every day for 9 months.

And even that is not the whole truth because I started out fasting until 11 in the morning and I worked my way up to 6 in the evening. Each month bumping it back 1 hour.

Is there anyone here reading this that would say my first statement was true?

It was the truth, but it was a lie at the same time, because it was only half the truth, and deceptive at the same time.

That is how I see those who add the will of God to scripture like those written above.

How do you see it, in light of my example?

I don't think the problem most of the time is adding to scripture...at least concerning what you brought up, healing.
I think the problem more often is running with a scripture WITHOUT taking into account the scripture that is in tension to the one they really like.

And there is always one or two in tension to the chosen scripture.

God is both merciful and severe.

We will have whatever we ask, but also we ask and don't receive because we ask with wrong motives.

Always answer a fool in his folly. Never answer a fool in his folly.

Without the verses in tension to, we are lopsided.

 

[notuptome]

Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

What is it you hope to bargain with God to obtain?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[CS1]

I don't think the problem most of the time is adding to scripture...at least concerning what you brought up, healing.
I think the problem more often is running with a scripture WITHOUT taking into account the scripture that is in tension to the one they really like.

And there is always one or two in tension to the chosen scripture.

God is both merciful and severe.

We will have whatever we ask, but also we ask and don't receive because we ask with wrong motives.

Always answer a fool in his folly. Never answer a fool in his folly.

Without the verses in tension to, we are lopsided.

I see the biblical context

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

The odd thing is that I've never done that to the best of my knowledge. My problem is more seeing two verses that seem to war with one another and not being able to put it to rest until they no longer war with each other. I see the seeming contradictions. I say seeming contradictions.

I'm like a dog with a bone until I can understand them together.

 

[SaintMichaels]

Okay that was the first time I had a thread that I posted censored and removed without explanation. I was going to point out, what I see as a flaw in many people's interpretation of scripture, but since they did not allow me the opportunity, I'll try to do that in this post.

There are many statements or proclamations Jesus made that He himself said were true, but I have noticed that many have to add to what Jesus said to make it what they believe to be the truth rather than leaving it as is.

For example in Mark 11: 23 and 24 Jesus said "for verily I say unto you that whosoever shall say unto this mountain be thou removed and be thou cast into the sea and shall not doubt in his heart but she'll believe that those things which he said shall come to pass he shall have whatsoever he saith.
Therefore I say unto you what things soever you desire When you pray believe that you receive them and you shall have them."

And again in John 14 verses 12 through 14 he States "verily verily I say unto you he that believeth on me the works that I do shall he do also and Greater Works than these shall he do because I go onto my father.
And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name that will I do that the father may be glorified in the son.
If you shall ask anything in my name I will do it."

With many here on CC, they add 1st John 5 verses 14 and 15 which states "and this is the confidence that we have in him that if we ask anything according to his will he heareth us:
And if we know that he hear us whatsoever we ask we know that we have the petitions that we desire of him."

And so they will add this scripture to the promises of Jesus to make it what they believed to be the truth.

What I would like to know is why add to scripture that Jesus said was the truth, as is?

Basically what they are saying when they have to add to scripture that Jesus already said was true, is that he spoke a half-truth, and in order to make it the whole truth or the whole counsel of God, they inject the will of God into those promises to somehow keep it in the context in which it was made, but that is only for the promises regarding the Believers getting what they want, such as healing for either themselves or a loved one.

For some reason they do not apply it to scripture dealing with salvation.

So the example below is basically what they are saying Jesus is doing.

I tell you this is a true statement and it actually happened.

A few years ago I fasted for nine straight months eating nothing but drinking water only.

I know most of you would say right off the bat that the statement I made is preposterous and impossible in the natural. Which, in and of itself, is impossible.

Like I said the above statement is true I did Fast for 9 months eating no food but drinking water only,...
That is, I did so before 6 in the evening, every day for 9 months.

And even that is not the whole truth because I started out fasting until 11 in the morning and I worked my way up to 6 in the evening. Each month bumping it back 1 hour.

Is there anyone here reading this that would say my first statement was true?

It was the truth, but it was a lie at the same time, because it was only half the truth, and deceptive at the same time.

That is how I see those who add the will of God to scripture like those written above.

How do you see it, in light of my example?

Okay that was the first time I had a thread that I posted censored and removed without explanation. I was going to point out, what I see as a flaw in many people's interpretation of scripture, but since they did not allow me the opportunity, I'll try to do that in this post.

There are many statements or proclamations Jesus made that He himself said were true, but I have noticed that many have to add to what Jesus said to make it what they believe to be the truth rather than leaving it as is.

For example in Mark 11: 23 and 24 Jesus said "for verily I say unto you that whosoever shall say unto this mountain be thou removed and be thou cast into the sea and shall not doubt in his heart but she'll believe that those things which he said shall come to pass he shall have whatsoever he saith.
Therefore I say unto you what things soever you desire When you pray believe that you receive them and you shall have them."

And again in John 14 verses 12 through 14 he States "verily verily I say unto you he that believeth on me the works that I do shall he do also and Greater Works than these shall he do because I go onto my father.
And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name that will I do that the father may be glorified in the son.
If you shall ask anything in my name I will do it."

With many here on CC, they add 1st John 5 verses 14 and 15 which states "and this is the confidence that we have in him that if we ask anything according to his will he heareth us:
And if we know that he hear us whatsoever we ask we know that we have the petitions that we desire of him."

And so they will add this scripture to the promises of Jesus to make it what they believed to be the truth.

What I would like to know is why add to scripture that Jesus said was the truth, as is?

Basically what they are saying when they have to add to scripture that Jesus already said was true, is that he spoke a half-truth, and in order to make it the whole truth or the whole counsel of God, they inject the will of God into those promises to somehow keep it in the context in which it was made, but that is only for the promises regarding the Believers getting what they want, such as healing for either themselves or a loved one.

For some reason they do not apply it to scripture dealing with salvation.

So the example below is basically what they are saying Jesus is doing.

I tell you this is a true statement and it actually happened.

A few years ago I fasted for nine straight months eating nothing but drinking water only.

I know most of you would say right off the bat that the statement I made is preposterous and impossible in the natural. Which, in and of itself, is impossible.

Like I said the above statement is true I did Fast for 9 months eating no food but drinking water only,...
That is, I did so before 6 in the evening, every day for 9 months.

And even that is not the whole truth because I started out fasting until 11 in the morning and I worked my way up to 6 in the evening. Each month bumping it back 1 hour.

Is there anyone here reading this that would say my first statement was true?

It was the truth, but it was a lie at the same time, because it was only half the truth, and deceptive at the same time.

That is how I see those who add the will of God to scripture like those written above.

How do you see it, in light of my example?

I don't see anything amiss in using scriptures to help further the message in other scriptures that contain the teachings of Jesus.

Jesus ministry was mostly in parables. About 1/3rd of the Synoptic gospels are in parable form.

What isn't often discussed is that those parables were familiar to his Jewish followers as that which is contained in the Torah, what we call the old testament. So in a sense Jesus would use the ancient writings , scriptures, in order to embellish his own teachings in the new age of the Messiah of prophecy arrived.

 

[Adstar]

Your whole argument is nonsensical and full of holes.

To say that you are not adding to the word of God because what you are adding two a verse is part of the word of God is silly and itself.

You're not clarifying the verses in question but changing them and pulling them out of context.

Why is it so hard to accept the truth as it is written?

The will of God is already written in the verses of question, all you have to do is accepted as truth the way it is written.

The truth is based on the way all the Word of God is written and when we consider the other verses and bring them into a harmonious message with the guidance of the Holy Spirit.. Then we have the true Message of God.. But there are thousands of false doctrines built of one verse and many cults started from just one verse. and many heresies created from selecting certain verses and ignoring others..

 

[garee]

Yes, I am that stupid that I do believe since G-d created that mountain HE COULD LITERALLY MOVE IT!!!! My Big DADDY (G-d)!?! ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE AND JUST YOU WAIT ONE DAY MT. OLIVES WILL SPLIT IN HALF!!! TELL ME THAT IS NOT MOVING A MOUNTAIN!!!! But He MOVES THE METAPHORICAL ONE TOO!!!!

Splitting a mountain which represents the kingdoms of denomination of this world would also be a metaphor . Without parable using metaphors the word of God speaks not .

The kingdoms or sects of this world will become the kingdoms of God in the new heavens and earth. Splitting mountains is a reference just as dividing the goats from the sheep in another parable .

Revelation 11:15And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever

 

[DevotiontoBible]

You mean you don't?
The mountain that Jesus was speaking about was a literal mountain when he said, this mountain, to the people, even as the tree that he cursed to death was a literal tree.

The question is, are the scriptures true as is or do they have to have the will of God added to every single one that defies logic?

Apparently you do not believe what is written, but have called into question the validity and truthfulness of Jesus's Proclamation.

I have stated in the past that my wife did The Impossible by driving her car without any gas in the tank, twice. And no, it was not a hybrid car or an electric car it was an internal combustion engine type only that requires fuel to run.

When Jesus said that nothing shall be impossible to them that believe, he meant what he said.

Why don't we add the same scripture to the Salvation promises as that which is added to the promises that I mentioned in the original post?

Such as, in John 3: 15 it is written "that who so ever believes in Jesus should not perish but have eternal life". That is until, you factor in the will of God,

So you will have eternal life When You Believe,... IF it's God's will for you.

Again it is written, for by grace you are saved through faith, IF it is the will of God for you.

The Mormons have the same bad habit. They have added a word to first John 1: 1.

They know that there is no Greek word for the letter A and so have added that 2 verse 1 so that it reads "in the beginning was the word and the Word was with God and the Word was "a" god.

So I have done with them as I have done here and that is I've applied there logic to the scripture in this way.
"In the beginning was the word and the Word was with a god and the Word was a god.
The same was in the beginning with a god."

It should be more than obvious that adding the will of God to every scripture is a perversion of the scripture and it is not in the context of the scriptures that it's being applied to.

If it is a perversion to the Salvation scriptures then it is equally a perversion to scriptures that declare that God will give you whatsoever YOU desire or want.

Again, the whole reason why the will of God is added to scripture is to explain away people's failure to receive from God the things they asked for, like healing for themselves or a loved one.

If Jesus was being literal then why didn't the Apostles and early church make Israel a treeless low level flat plains?

 

[KDM1]

If Jesus was being literal then why didn't the Apostles and early church make Israel a treeless low level flat plains?

Im not familiar with that in the Bible but Israel was treeless for literally 2000 years.

 

[mcubed]

Splitting a mountain which represents the kingdoms of denomination of this world would also be a metaphor . Without parable using metaphors the word of God speaks not .

The kingdoms or sects of this world will become the kingdoms of God in the new heavens and earth. Splitting mountains is a reference just as dividing the goats from the sheep in another parable .

Revelation 11:15And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever

Ok. Personally I believe where the Scripture can be taken literally it should be. I think it is true but I will give you maybe the splitting is metaphorical.... That still does not take take away the Creator of a mountain can do whatever He wants with that litteral mountain....

 

[KDM1]

Ok. Personally I believe where the Scripture can be taken literally it should be. I think it is true but I will give you maybe the splitting is metaphorical.... That still does not take take away the Creator of a mountain can do whatever He wants with that litteral mountain....

The splitting is literal, they found a massive fault line beneath the Mt. of Olives not long ago and said when it goes it will move the land.

 

[Latour]

Okay that was the first time I had a thread that I posted censored and removed without explanation. I was going to point out, what I see as a flaw in many people's interpretation of scripture, but since they did not allow me the opportunity, I'll try to do that in this post.

There are many statements or proclamations Jesus made that He himself said were true, but I have noticed that many have to add to what Jesus said to make it what they believe to be the truth rather than leaving it as is.

For example in Mark 11: 23 and 24 Jesus said "for verily I say unto you that whosoever shall say unto this mountain be thou removed and be thou cast into the sea and shall not doubt in his heart but she'll believe that those things which he said shall come to pass he shall have whatsoever he saith.
Therefore I say unto you what things soever you desire When you pray believe that you receive them and you shall have them."

And again in John 14 verses 12 through 14 he States "verily verily I say unto you he that believeth on me the works that I do shall he do also and Greater Works than these shall he do because I go onto my father.
And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name that will I do that the father may be glorified in the son.
If you shall ask anything in my name I will do it."

With many here on CC, they add 1st John 5 verses 14 and 15 which states "and this is the confidence that we have in him that if we ask anything according to his will he heareth us:
And if we know that he hear us whatsoever we ask we know that we have the petitions that we desire of him."

And so they will add this scripture to the promises of Jesus to make it what they believed to be the truth.

What I would like to know is why add to scripture that Jesus said was the truth, as is?

Basically what they are saying when they have to add to scripture that Jesus already said was true, is that he spoke a half-truth, and in order to make it the whole truth or the whole counsel of God, they inject the will of God into those promises to somehow keep it in the context in which it was made, but that is only for the promises regarding the Believers getting what they want, such as healing for either themselves or a loved one.

For some reason they do not apply it to scripture dealing with salvation.

So the example below is basically what they are saying Jesus is doing.

I tell you this is a true statement and it actually happened.

A few years ago I fasted for nine straight months eating nothing but drinking water only.

I know most of you would say right off the bat that the statement I made is preposterous and impossible in the natural. Which, in and of itself, is impossible.

Like I said the above statement is true I did Fast for 9 months eating no food but drinking water only,...
That is, I did so before 6 in the evening, every day for 9 months.

And even that is not the whole truth because I started out fasting until 11 in the morning and I worked my way up to 6 in the evening. Each month bumping it back 1 hour.

Is there anyone here reading this that would say my first statement was true?

It was the truth, but it was a lie at the same time, because it was only half the truth, and deceptive at the same time.

That is how I see those who add the will of God to scripture like those written above.

How do you see it, in light of my example?

Agreed! Most people have certain verses they like and deny the existence of other verses that overthrow their take on things. Modern Christians have not learned much about the faith they supposedly adhere to. There is no understanding of spiritual things...just baby stuff.
Jesus shows us what the faith OF Jesus is. It takes us someplace. It is NOT human belief. Human belief is what most people think faith is...but this has no power except to deceive.

Faith translates us into God's presence. Like Enoch who by faith pleased God and was taken up to heaven

Faith pleases God and results in our going to be in Zion where Jesus is so that we are then seated with Him in heavenly places. From there we walk as He walked and do as He did.

The mountain that Jesus is referring to is Mount Zion...the abode of God. The sea is the world. So as we exercise the faith OF Christ God moves the power from Zion into the world. This is the witness of the true church of Christ.

Peace

 

[know1]

I don't see anything amiss in using scriptures to help further the message in other scriptures that contain the teachings of Jesus.

Jesus ministry was mostly in parables. About 1/3rd of the Synoptic gospels are in parable form.

What isn't often discussed is that those parables were familiar to his Jewish followers as that which is contained in the Torah, what we call the old testament. So in a sense Jesus would use the ancient writings , scriptures, in order to embellish his own teachings in the new age of the Messiah of prophecy arrived.

There is, when it changes the context of the scripture.

For example, in Romans 10 verses 9 and 10 God says believe and confess that Jesus is the Christ and you shall be born again.

Now let's add 1st John 5 verses 14 and 15 to make it the whole Council of God so as to give us a better understanding of what God is talking about.

So let's say you have a person who wants to be born again, and so you let them know that God will save them if it is his will, because after all it is part of the word of God and you never know what God's going to do.

The truth is, no one knows if a person, first of all, has been called of God, and secondly, that it's God's will for them to be saved.

If you don't know it's his will to heal his children then you certainly don't know if it's his will to save a heathen or unbeliever.

By adding the scripture that talks about the will of God to some promises that are hard to accept and not to those that deal with the saving grace or forgiveness of God, First shows bias, and second shows they're not interested in properly interpreting the word of God to obtain the truth, but are more interested and making the word of God say what they want it to say or what lines up with their Doctrine.

This is not rightly dividing the word of God to obtain the truth, and neither is it in the context of the scriptures in question.

 

[know1]

Agreed! Most people have certain verses they like and deny the existence of other verses that overthrow their take on things. Modern Christians have not learned much about the faith they supposedly adhere to. There is no understanding of spiritual things...just baby stuff.
Jesus shows us what the faith OF Jesus is. It takes us someplace. It is NOT human belief. Human belief is what most people think faith is...but this has no power except to deceive.

Faith translates us into God's presence. Like Enoch who by faith pleased God and was taken up to heaven

Faith pleases God and results in our going to be in Zion where Jesus is so that we are then seated with Him in heavenly places. From there we walk as He walked and do as He did.

The mountain that Jesus is referring to is Mount Zion...the abode of God. The sea is the world. So as we exercise the faith OF Christ God moves the power from Zion into the world. This is the witness of the true church of Christ.

Peace

I have found that most Christians are not interested in learning what faith is nor do I care to know how it works.

I agree the most Believers are baby Christian that can only handle milk and not the meat of the word.

I find it interesting that you believe that Faith translates us into God's presence, because I've been saying for years that Faith moves us into the kingdom of God.

I am convinced that we can move in and out of the kingdom of God bye our faith or lack thereof.

There are many scriptures I talked about going in and out of Christ and the kingdom of God.

If Faith brought us into the kingdom of God, by God's grace, then it is possible to Fall From Grace in certain areas where we lack faith.

Interesting concept concerning the mountain and sea. I can't say I've heard that one before.

 

[know1]

Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

What is it you hope to bargain with God to obtain?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

First off, I don't hope for anything because I don't get anything whenever I hope for it, and secondly, I don't bargain with God, I ask and sometimes I demand and I get it based on the Promises of his word, because that is his will.

I say again, if you don't know what God is going to do, you will have no faith in God doing or giving you your request because you will have absolutely no confidence that it was granted to you.

Again if you did the same with the Salvation scriptures telling others that you don't know what God's going to do, then neither you nor the person you're telling would have any faith or confidence in God to perform that word because again, you don't know what he will do, and therefore you cannot have any faith in God or his word because it's always up in the air of uncertainty.

And that is one reason why so many people fall and fall away from believing.

 

[know1]

I have found that most Christians are not interested in learning what faith is nor do I care to know how it works.

I agree the most Believers are baby Christian that can
w

I have found that most Christians are not interested in learning what faith is nor do I care to know how it works.

I agree the most Believers are baby Christian that can only handle milk and not the meat of the word.

I find it interesting that you believe that Faith translates us into God's presence, because I've been saying for years that Faith moves us into the kingdom of God.

I am convinced that we can move in and out of the kingdom of God bye our faith or lack thereof.

There are many scriptures I talked about going in and out of Christ and the kingdom of God.

If Faith brought us into the kingdom of God, by God's grace, then it is possible to Fall From Grace in certain areas where we lack faith.

Interesting concept concerning the mountain and sea. I can't say I've heard that one before.

The first line should read, that they don't care to know how it works, not me.

 

[Deade]

That's not going to tell you to do something that you have absolutely no faith for in the first place.

That's why you don't hear him tell you to go lay hands on the sick and they shall recover or to raise the Dead or move a mountain.

You answer oldthenew this way? You do not know anything about this person's faith. All she stated was the following:

i'll move the 'mountain' if The Holy Spirit tells me to,
but until then, I'm leaving it alone...

You understand that moving a mountain just because you can, would be asking amiss. Maybe to show off?

 

[Deade]

Deade.. The power of the Holy Spirit will cause a mountain to be removed and cast into the sea... We could never move a mountain by our will.. But if our willis aligned with the will of God that mountain will be cast into the sea..

I never said that God can't move a mountain. He is God, He can move the whole earth. I just surmised what would be the point in moving a mountain.