Will you go to Heaven?

[Ralph-]

Dude you have calvinitis, you need to get out more, and take some pills to get healed of that illness, it has you blind to what people really are saying

calvin did not start eternal security, whoever told you that lied to you.

Calvin is responsible for once saved always saved being accepted by the church. It had been soundly rejected by the church up until his time.

 

[Magenta]

Then you're saying he doesn't agree with John. Interesting.

At least I gave him the benefit of the doubt that he simply did not know what John said.

That is not what I am saying at all, and you are being dishonest to even suggest it, for it is clear I am disagreeing with you, and it is YOUR assertion that Dan disagrees with John. Nor did you give him the benefit of the doubt as you again dishonestly claim. Your lies never end, do they? You flat out stated that "I think it's more a matter of you did not know John said this." The rest of us know you are wrong in this, as you are in so many of your other obnoxious proclamations.

 

[claysmithr]

the bible tells me I'm saved because I trust in jesus

 

[mailmandan]

You said this:Why did you say this if you knew that the Bible says anybody can know if they have measured up to the standard of saving faith?

My comment was directed toward works-salvationists, who are seeking salvation based on the merits of their performance/works.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

I do know I will go to heaven

I can't wait to meet my Father

 

[Ralph-]

My comment was directed toward works-salvationists, who are seeking salvation based on the merits of their performance/works.

Yes, I was aware of that.

Why would they not know, like us, that they can know they are saved by if the Holy Spirit can be seen in their behavior?

 

[UnderGrace]

I'm surprised that you of all people don't know more about Calvinism.

Once saved always saved is infiltrating the present day church because of Calvin.

Ohh Ralphie, I know way more than I need to know, but that is not the point now is it, the point is that Calvin did not introduce eternal assurance of salvation, but rather he espoused the "preservation of the saints" which are two very different teachings.

Now you should really differentiate the two in order to have a reasonable conversation on the topic.

Capisci?

 

[UnderGrace]

And Calvin got it from Augustine, and Augustine got it from the Manichaean gnostics he followed for 9 years.

Well I do have to agree on this, not about OSAS part, but that Calvin was highly influenced by Augustine.

 

[so-jesus-e-deus]

Do you know you will go to heaven?

Only he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved (Matt 24.13).

 

[pottersclay]

Salvation is found in Christ alone. It is not a gift handed out to one and not the other nor is it earned on ones merit. Jesus is that gift of life.
Jesus said of himself...he is the way...the truth..the life.... Salvation is not given to us to possess but it is found in Christ.
He is the lover of your soul......he is the resurrection....so how is you relationship with him....are you a friend or foe? Are you a faithful servant or a wicked one? Jesus secured your salvation, it could never be lost. Do you know him ? Does he know you?

 

[Deade]

I do know I will go to heaven

I can't wait to meet my Father

Nobody is going to heaven. Heaven (the Kingdom of) is coming to earth. At least until the 1000 years are over. But even then New Jerusalem will be here.

Rev. 5:10: "And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth."

Rev. 20:6: "Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."

 

[mailmandan]

Yes, I was aware of that.

Why would they not know, like us, that they can know they are saved by if the Holy Spirit can be seen in their behavior?

How can the Holy Spirit be seen in someone's behavior if they are not saved and have not received the Holy Spirit? Prior to my conversion, while still attending the Roman Catholic church, I had no absolute assurance of salvation. I just had my fingers crossed.

 

[mailmandan]

Ohh Ralphie, I know way more than I need to know, but that is not the point now is it, the point is that Calvin did not introduce eternal assurance of salvation, but rather he espoused the "preservation of the saints" which are two very different teachings.

Now you should really differentiate the two in order to have a reasonable conversation on the topic.

Capisci?

And "preservation of the saints" certainly predates Calvin.

Psalm 37:28 - For the Lord loves justice, And does not forsake His saints; They are preserved forever, But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off.

Jude 1:1 - Jude, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, To those who are called, sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

Nobody is going to heaven. Heaven (the Kingdom of) is coming to earth. At least until the 1000 years are over. But even then New Jerusalem will be here.

Rev. 5:10: "And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth."

Rev. 20:6: "Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."

hahaha fair enough bro

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Calvin is responsible for once saved always saved being accepted by the church. It had been soundly rejected by the church up until his time.

Yeah, the church of Rome is pretty trustworthy! Attend mass lately?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

And "preservation of the saints" certainly predates Calvin.

Psalm 37:28 - For the Lord loves justice, And does not forsake His saints; They are preserved forever, But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off.

Jude 1:1 - Jude, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, To those who are called, sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ.

Ouch, that has to hurt the nosas people, nothing like scriptur. Proving a point

 

[Ralph-]

Yeah, the church of Rome is pretty trustworthy! Attend mass lately?

It was rejected before the corruption of the Roman church.

Oh, by the way....

You have said repeatedly that people can't and won't depart from the Lord because he never gives them any reason to. So what reason did God give the Galatians for departing from him? How did God let them down to cause them to turn to the law and away from trust in Him?

 

[Ralph-]

Ouch, that has to hurt the nosas people, nothing like scriptur. Proving a point

Everybody who believes (present tense) is persevered in Christ. The promise is to those who continue in Christ, not for those who fall away. Like the Galatians.

Christ is like a hurricane shelter. You have to enter into the shelter to be saved from the storm. You have to stay in the shelter to continue to be safe from the storm. The shelter is sure. The shelter will last forever. And nobody can expel you from the shelter. The only thing that can remove the safety of the shelter is if you walk away from it.

 

[Ralph-]

How can the Holy Spirit be seen in someone's behavior if they are not saved and have not received the Holy Spirit?

Exactly!
Think about what you just said.

Prior to my conversion, while still attending the Roman Catholic church, I had no absolute assurance of salvation.

That's what John is saying. You can't have assurance of salvation if you don't look like a saved person. Unbelievers are the one's who can't look like a saved person so they can't have any assurance of salvation. Only believers who walk by the Spirit can have the assurance of salvation. The new nature shows us to have saving faith in Christ and is what gives us peace about the coming Judgment and the assurance that we'll pass through safely.

The changed nature is the assurance we are new creations through faith in Christ. Without the visible evidence of being a new creation you can't have the assurance that you are a new creation in Christ.

 

[Ralph-]

Nobody is going to heaven. Heaven (the Kingdom of) is coming to earth. At least until the 1000 years are over. But even then New Jerusalem will be here.

Rev. 5:10: "And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth."

Rev. 20:6: "Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."

"and (he) showed me the holy city, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God"-Revelation 21:10

We are the precious stones of the temple of God. We are the new Jerusalem where God dwells that comes down out of heaven.