Will you go to Heaven?

[Magenta]

You don't sound like you have assurance of salvation. The believer is but assumed? From the first day of my conversion until now, I have complete assurance of salvation.

Those who truly believe in the name of the Son of God can know they have eternal life, just as God promises.

I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. 1 John 5:13

It seems some do not know, and want to deny others knowing, as well Despite the clear teaching of Scripture, too! So sad.

 

[Seedz]

Can someone be unsaved if they went from believing to not believing? Or does believing mean that you don't ever change your mind and if you did/do, you never believed in the first place?

 

[Seedz]

I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. 1 John 5:13

It seems some do not know, and want to deny others knowing, as well Despite the clear teaching of Scripture, too! So sad.

Both sides use scripture to defend their views. Hence why whole denominations/movements arise

 

[Magenta]

Both sides use scripture to defend their views. Hence why whole denominations/movements arise

Where is the verse that says we cannot know whether or not we are saved?

 

[mailmandan]

Where is the verse that says we cannot know whether or not we are saved?

There is no such verse. The "sin of presumption" is taught by the RCC, but there is not a verse in the Bible that backs up their argument.

 

[Ralph-]

If you think people can lose their salvation.... Have you lost yours?

No.

If not how have you stayed saved?

By continuing to trust in Christ. The very same trusting I started doing back in 1986 and which continues to this day.

If you have how did you get it back and get to go to heaven now?

Once you lose your salvation God does not allow that person to come back to repentance. That puts Christ to open shame. He doesn't allow it.

Do you know you will go to heaven?

As long as I continue to believe and I produce the fruit of the Spirit I have both the security of salvation and the assurance that I really do have it.


Any more questions?

 

[Ralph-]

People who trust in their works/performance as the basis for assurance of receiving eternal life could NEVER have absolute assurance because they could NEVER know for sure if they MEASURED UP and that is the whole deception!

It's interesting that you do not agree with John:

"
14We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love each other.


18Dear children, let us not love with words or speech but with actions and in truth.

19This is how we know that we belong to the truth and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence: 20If our hearts condemn us, we know that God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything.


24The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.

1 John 3:14,18-19,24


But I think it's more a matter of you did not know John said this.


Security comes from trusting in Christ. Assurance that you are secure in Christ comes from being a changed person who loves as God loves.

 

[Ralph-]

There is no such verse. The "sin of presumption" is taught by the RCC, but there is not a verse in the Bible that backs up their argument.

Did you know that classic Calvinism teaches that one can never truly know they are of the elect?

 

[mailmandan]

Did you know that classic Calvinism teaches that one can never truly know they are of the elect?

Nope. I never really dove deep into Calvinism. I understand the 5 points of Calvinism, but that's as far as I care to go.

 

[Ralph-]

...if I spill milk on the rug (my euphemism for sin) I won't get kicked out of the house for it, but I know I better say I'm sorry for it (and mean it!), and God still may give me a whippin'.

True.

Forfeiture of salvation comes from leaving the house, not from sinning in the house.

 

[Ralph-]

Nope. I never really dove deep into Calvinism. I understand the 5 points of Calvinism, but that's as far as I care to go.

You should check it out since what you believe about not losing your salvation comes from Calvin starting in the 16 century or thereabouts. .

 

[Ralph-]

The great divide between the haves and the have nots is the full revelation and acceptance of all that Christ's work accomplished. There is a chasm between the two, a worker that rests and one that works without rest. The toil is hard for the latter, and peace is found in the sweat of their brow. For the former, however, is rest found in Christ unto the good works prepared beforehand. Their sweat is in conformity to His will. The other is as filthy rags.

You cannot be justified by God through the shedding of His blood, and then try and find merit in self-righteousness (no matter how admirable the endeavor is to walk in holiness). Eternal security is through Christ, and anyone who reads and comprehends the work of Christ finds solace.

There are interpretations of scripture that would consider Christ's blood as common and ineffectual to truly save us from sin and reconcile us to God. To grant forgiveness and eternal redemption (Hebrews 9:12). They see that Christ offers eternal life, but that life is only given at the end (of theirs) they say. Ah, but does not the man that have Christ have eternal life (1 John 5:11)? This is faith, to believe in the One that the Father sent.

Why are you equating not believing in once saved always saved with the works gospel?

You have to get out of the narrow doctrinal box that the church has put you into. Not believing in once saved always saved does not have to only mean thinking salvation is earned on the merit of doing righteous work. Continuing in the security of Christ is conditioned on your believing/trusting, not on the performance of righteous works.

 

[Ralph-]

Thanks to God's promise to those who BELIEVE, I can KNOW that I am going to Heaven. Praise God!

That's how it works.

Your believing is what lays hold of the security of Christ's sacrifice and ministry. Continue believing and you will continue to be secure in Christ.

 

[Ralph-]

Can someone be unsaved if they went from believing to not believing?

That is exactly how on forfeits their salvation: Stop trusting in Christ.

Or does believing mean that you don't ever change your mind....

I wish that was the case but 1) the Bible tells us to keep believing, and 2) simple observation shows that people who once believed later changed their mind and went back to unbelief.

and if you did/do, you never believed in the first place?

It is possible that the person who stops trusting in Christ actually never really did to begin with. That is certainly one of the things that could have occurred.

 

[Ralph-]

Both sides use scripture to defend their views. Hence why whole denominations/movements arise

All you have to do is put the two seemingly contradictory passages of scripture side by side and you can see which one can not be true if it makes the other one false. Try it.


The passages interpreted to defend 'once saved always saved' make the passages used to defend 'not once saved always saved' false. But the 'not once saved always saved' passages do not make the 'once saved always saved' passages false. That is how you know which argument is true and which one is not.

This works with many if not all disputable doctrines.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

You should check it out since what you believe about not losing your salvation comes from Calvin starting in the 16 century or thereabouts. .

And Calvin got it from Augustine, and Augustine got it from the Manichaean gnostics he followed for 9 years.

 

[SpoonJuly]

No.



By continuing to trust in Christ. The very same trusting I started doing back in 1986 and which continues to this day.




Once you lose your salvation God does not allow that person to come back to repentance. That puts Christ to open shame. He doesn't allow it.



As long as I continue to believe and I produce the fruit of the Spirit I have both the security of salvation and the assurance that I really do have it.


Any more questions?

So you base your salvation on yourself.
YOU continue to be saved because YOU continue to believe and PRODUCE fruit.
That is works based salvation.
Deny if all you wish, does not change the fact that you believe in WORKS for salvation.

 

[mailmandan]

You should check it out since what you believe about not losing your salvation comes from Calvin starting in the 16 century or thereabouts.

I formed my beliefs from Scripture and not from Calvin.

 

[JGIG]

If someone believes they have lost thier salvation, would a OSAS believer tell them:

No, you can't lose something you never had.
Trying to get use to this new format. I will try it again.

If someone believes they have lost their salvation, would a OSAS believer tell them:

1. No, you are mistaken. You must never have had salvation to begin with. You simply had a false assurance of salvation.

2. No, you are mistaken. You can not lose salvation under any condition. You are simply having a false sense of damnation.

3. Something else.

 

[Magenta]

It's interesting that you do not agree with John:

"
14We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love each other.

18Dear children, let us not love with words or speech but with actions and in truth.

19This is how we know that we belong to the truth and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence: 20If our hearts condemn us, we know that God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything.

24The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.

1 John 3:14,18-19,24

But I think it's more a matter of you did not know John said this.

The rest of us know you are wrong about Dan "not knowing" Your ignorance is showing.