Not By Works

[benhur]

So what............more like 90% does not believe it....we have had this dance before....and like I have said...your Jesus is not found in scripture........

So 90% of Christians believe in the wrong Jesus? Wow! Geesh! Wow!

 

[ljs]

No, I just did not go into all the details of what it means to repent, one of which is to make amends with the person you harmed. In your case asking for forgiveness, which may also include restitution for suffering you have endured by his hand. So the act of repentance is not a simple 'please God forgive me' and Jesus waves his hand and declares you forgiven.

I am sure there are sins that you will not confess before you die, and God will deal with that, primarily with his grace and mercy, but your heart has got to be in the right place. If you are humble and submissive to the Lord and you forgive your trespassers and you generally repent of your sins, then God will be with you and will save you from your sins as He has promised.

You have a good heart, I would not be afraid for you. But endure to the end and do the good works that Jesus has prepared for you to do and all will be well.

Repent means to change your mind , go from unbelief to belief
And remember that God's requirement for entry into his heaven is PERFECTION
How are we made perfect ??

 

[dcontroversal]

So 90% of Christians believe in the wrong Jesus? Wow! Geesh! Wow!

Take up with him....the number is plenteous that comes before his throne pushing the same dogma that you push while fully expecting the right to enter based upon their claim of knowing him and all the wonderful works they have done in his name.....YOUR dogma exactly.......bad day for all who clam to know him and have the right to enter based upon what they have done and their wonderful works in his name.......

 

[ljs]

I believe that the difference is that you recognize that you have quenched the HS and in your own way, you have repented and have allowed the HS to return. We all sin, but we all have the capacity to repent and get back into reconciliation with God. He is a merciful God.

Wow , the Holy Spirit doesnt come in and out of us when we sin , and we have already been reconciled to God thru his son , the moment we believed

 

[dcontroversal]

Repent means to change your mind , go from unbelief to belief
And remember that God's requirement for entry into his heaven is PERFECTION
How are we made perfect ??

Only one way....having the righteousness of Christ imputed to our account by faith without the works/deeds of the law.....

 

[ljs]

thats not what ben believes unfortunately for him

 

[benhur]

Take up with him....the number is plenteous that comes before his throne pushing the same dogma that you push while fully expecting the right to enter based upon their claim of knowing him and all the wonderful works they have done in his name.....YOUR dogma exactly.......bad day for all who clam to know him and have the right to enter based upon what they have done and their wonderful works in his name.......

It will be a bad day for those that think they have the right to salvation based upon what they have done and their wonderful works in his name. You know very well that that is not what I have ever said, so it will not be a bad day for me, thank you.

But it will be a bad day for a person who believes and lives the gospel for a time, but then due to the pressures of the world turns from Jesus and denies the HS. That is the person that will have a bad day. The saved, that finds themselves unsaved, and unknown.

If through your faithlessness, Jesus deletes your name out of the book of life, that is in affect saying I knew you, but now I do not know you. So do not deny the HS, and your testimony of Jesus and you will be OK.

Even though you said what you say, I forgive you, and tell you that my Lord is the same Lord as your Lord. It is OK, we think a little differently, but we are brothers in Christ, and I will fight right beside you to defend Jesus's name. Don't ever forget that.

 

[benhur]

thats not what ben believes unfortunately for him

I do believe that, but I also believe we have to live the law of Christ. A lot of Christians don't even know there is a law of Christ.

 

[benhur]

Repent means to change your mind , go from unbelief to belief
And remember that God's requirement for entry into his heaven is PERFECTION
How are we made perfect ??

James says that our faith is made perfect by good works.

Of course our final perfection will only be accomplished by the grace of Jesus Christ.

 

[benhur]

You were never saved to begin with, because you never had faith.

If you are savedm and do alot if works, then your faith weekend, and your works fall away, are you still saved?

Not necessarily. It depends on the direction you continue on. If you recognize your weakened faith, and repent and get back on the right path, you will be forgiven and all is right. If you continue to slide to the point of denying the HS, you will not be forgiven and will not have eternal life.

Jesus will force no man to heaven.

 

[benhur]

Wow , the Holy Spirit doesnt come in and out of us when we sin , and we have already been reconciled to God thru his son , the moment we believed

If you make the decision to go into a porn movie and the HS is yelling at you to stop, and you push the prompting out of your mind and go in and enjoy a porn movie, the HS is not going to go with you into that movie.

On a more dangerous scale, if you decide to kill a person, and you plan and are in the act of execution and the HS is yelling at you not to continue and you shove the promptings of the HS out of your head and then kill another human being, is the HS going to be with you when you pull the trigger?

There are myriads of possible times that the HS prompts you to do the right thing, do you do the right or do you go right ahead and do the wrong? How long will the HS be with you if you make the wrong choice time after time, after time, after time, until you deny the HS?

 

[VCO]

So 90% of Christians believe in the wrong Jesus? Wow! Geesh! Wow!

A Jesus of their own mind and liking. NOT THE REAL JESUS.

Matthew 7:13-23 (NKJV)
13 "Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction [of hell], and there are many who go in by it.
14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.
15 "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves.
16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles?
17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit.
19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.
21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven,
but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22 Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?'
23 And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'

 

[NoNameMcgee]

ok ben

im not at home yet but ill start now

you asked how

Matthew 6:14-15
14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

__________

fits into the promise of eternal security

this indeed is a conditional promise ben

in that regard you understand it completely

14 is the promise
15 is the condition

but what you dont understand

is what this promise is speaking of...

it is speaking to those who are already saved

forever

and the punishment to those who are currently His (He is their Father)

who do not forgive men

is when their works are tried by fire
they will not endure it

they will burn up.....

how i know this is regarding treasures in heaven? well first of all



16 Moreover when ye fast, be not, as the hypocrites, of a sad countenance: for they disfigure their faces, that they may appear unto men to fast. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

17 But thou, when thou fastest, anoint thine head, and wash thy face;

18 That thou appear not unto men to fast, but unto thy Father which is in secret: and thy Father, which seeth in secret, shall reward thee openly.

19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:

20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:

21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.


This is Jesus explaining the difference of earning treasures in heaven and on earth as part of the same message

1 corinthians 3
11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.


here is the same principal being shown again



God would need to break His promises to make matthew 6 mean what YOU THINK it means


here is another one of His promises that paired with the principal im showing you
should clearly show you

once you are His

you are saved
forever


john 6
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
___________
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.



the promise here is eternal security
37-39
and the condition is 40

to all those who believe on Jesus

OK, thank you for that.

Just explain in your own words, not a bunch of scriptures: If he was speaking to those that were saved, why did he give them this promise and condition?

IOW if they are saved and secure eternally, why tell them that if they do not forgive, God will not forgive them?
Remember that if God does not forgive their sins, they will not be with Him in the KOG or have eternal life.

If they are 'saved' why they sermon on forgiveness?

i did also use my words to explain that chapter

a large point of that speech is to show His children (saved forever as He has promised) how even though they are saved
their actions still have consequences.... the chastening of a loving father will not only continue until the child is corrected

but also his wasted efforts earn no spiritual rewards

let me use an example

lets say joe is a loving father to a son

and he wants to use his son for lawn work and pay him accordingly

well lets say his son is holding a grudge against the neighbors son

and refuses to forgive him or mow their lawn

you will not only punish him until he gets in line

youre not going to pay him if he does not do the job....


the reason Jesus is telling His saved believers to not be like the hypcrits and do works for show
is because
this is an issue of the heart and having a pure and true relationship with God

but the verse has nothing to do with the loss of salvation

God is not a liar and keeps His promises

 

[NoNameMcgee]

OK, I believe that.

if someone believes that

and also believe He casts His own out when He said He wouldn't that would make them double minded

and they would have to believe that God goes back on His promises (which God specifically says He does not do)

so that someone is either calling God a liar

or just lacking knowledge regarding the promises of God

 

[TruthTalk]

So 90% of Christians believe in the wrong Jesus? Wow! Geesh! Wow!

Please give proof of 90% of Christians believe as you do, no proof at all, just believe your word for everything.
This will never happen in an eternity of eternities.

 

[TruthTalk]

i did also use my words to explain that chapter

a large point of that speech is to show His children (saved forever as He has promised) how even though they are saved
their actions still have consequences.... the chastening of a loving father will not only continue until the child is corrected

but also his wasted efforts earn no spiritual rewards

let me use an example

lets say joe is a loving father to a son

and he wants to use his son for lawn work and pay him accordingly

well lets say his son is holding a grudge against the neighbors son

and refuses to forgive him or mow their lawn

you will not only punish him until he gets in line

youre not going to pay him if he does not do the job....


the reason Jesus is telling His saved believers to not be like the hypcrits and do works for show
is because
this is an issue of the heart and having a pure and true relationship with God

but the verse has nothing to do with the loss of salvation

God is not a liar and keeps His promises

Amen and thank you Mcgee,

"God is not a liar and keeps His promises"

 

[TruthTalk]

if someone believes that

and also believe He casts His own out when He said He wouldn't that would make them double minded

and they would have to believe that God goes back on His promises (which God specifically says He does not do)

so that someone is either calling God a liar

or just lacking knowledge regarding the promises of God

Amen Mcgee,

A promise of God, "never will I leave you or forsake you"

Hebrews:13:5

Keep your lives free from the love of money and be content with what you have, because God has said, "Never will I leave you; never will I forsake you."​

 

[TruthTalk]

A Jesus of their own mind and liking. NOT THE REAL JESUS.

Matthew 7:13-23 (NKJV)
13 "Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction [of hell], and there are many who go in by it.
14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.
15 "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves.
16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles?
17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit.
19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.
21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven,
but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22 Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?'
23 And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'

Hi VCO, It upsets me to read some of the misinterpretations of the bible and I believe it does to you to. Some people on this forum have not developed shills of interpretation. Consequently they have made up a Jesus from their own mind/imagination and then try to force feed young Christians to believe their garbage.

​

Matthew15:9,14
"They worship me in vain; their teachings are merely human rules."

"Let them alone; they are blind guides of the blind. And if a blind man guides a blind man, both will fall into a pit."

 

[VCO]

Hi VCO, It upsets me to read some of the misinterpretations of the bible and I believe it does to you to. Some people on this forum have not developed shills of interpretation. Consequently they have made up a Jesus from their own mind/imagination and then try to force feed young Christians to believe their garbage.

​

Matthew15:9,14
"They worship me in vain; their teachings are merely human rules."

"Let them alone; they are blind guides of the blind. And if a blind man guides a blind man, both will fall into a pit."

Yes, it does. And they ignore the first rule of interpretation, "READ THE CONTEXT."

 

[TruthTalk]

Yes, it does. And they ignore the first rule of interpretation, "READ THE CONTEXT."

"READ THE CONTEXT." .....