Not By Works

[BillG]

I have always maintined that works will not save you.

I agree with you that works are evidence of salvation. IOW if you have good works that is evidence that you are saved. By the same token, if you do not have good works, that is evidence you are not saved.

Peter didn't have good works when he denied Jesus.
Was he saved?

David didn't have good works when he took another man's wife then had him killed.
What did God say about David?

The same David who took a censunagainst Gods will and if memory serves me the same David who ate the shewbread.

 

[BillG]

So you are crying on the forum that you have answered every question that I have given you. So I give you a simple question to answer and then you rant and rave about having already answered it and give no explanation about how it fits into your theology.

So stop crying and look at my simple question and answer it simply, no 2 page document that you worked on for 2 years and cut and paste. Just how do you believe Matthew 6:14-15, and how does it work into your 'saved' theology.

If you have answered it before, indulge me one more minute and answer again. It may be worth your time to help such a sinner as I.

Says the man who has not responded to most of my questions and responses to your posts.

 

[benhur]

They might be , not for me to judge anothers salvation

Scripture talks about " quenching the Holy Spirit " so thats what that person you described would be doing , but quenching doesnt mean not saved or losing it

Do you think that 'quenching' means to put out the HS? Like you quench a fire, or you quench your thirst? I believe quenching does mean to put out. So if you quench the HS, you are putting the HS out of your life.

If one does not do the works that Jesus has created for them, they are quenching the HS and if they do that long enough, I believe the HS will no longer indwell with them and they will lose their salvation altogether.

 

[benhur]

Peter didn't have good works when he denied Jesus.
Was he saved?

David didn't have good works when he took another man's wife then had him killed.
What did God say about David?

The same David who took a censunagainst Gods will and if memory serves me the same David who ate the shewbread.

You have given some bad things that people did. Did they repent of these things, and did they come back to Jesus? Yes. He is a forgiving God, as long as you repent and search for him again.

 

[ljs]

Do you think that 'quenching' means to put out the HS? Like you quench a fire, or you quench your thirst? I believe quenching does mean to put out. So if you quench the HS, you are putting the HS out of your life.

If one does not do the works that Jesus has created for them, they are quenching the HS and if they do that long enough, I believe the HS will no longer indwell with them and they will lose their salvation altogether.

Well since scripture says we are sealed by the Holy Spirit the moment we believe , and doesnt talk about unsealing due to anything we do , i dont believe the Holy Spirit ever leaves a believer.

I think to quench him means to hinder him , keep him from leading you

If what you say were true , then all of us would have lost our salvation , because none of us are perfect in our walk , we have all quenched the Holy Spirit at times

 

[NoNameMcgee]

So you are crying on the forum that you have answered every question that I have given you. So I give you a simple question to answer and then you rant and rave about having already answered it and give no explanation about how it fits into your theology.

So stop crying and look at my simple question and answer it simply, no 2 page document that you worked on for 2 years and cut and paste. Just how do you believe Matthew 6:14-15, and how does it work into your 'saved' theology.

If you have answered it before, indulge me one more minute and answer again. It may be worth your time to help such a sinner as I.

your jabs like "crying" dont effect me

i have taken the time now twice to not only explain the out of context verse you just posted


but provided whole chapters with my own personal commentary (so far most of matthew 6,7,8 and all of hebrews 10.... just for you)

you then lied and say i ignored scriptures


right now i see youre trying to provoke me
nah

lol i aint even upset at you

and im taking the time to figure out this search engine.... it seems buggy

but ill re-post my last answer if i can find it in between my bits of downtime at work

if i cant figure it out before i get home

ill type out the context all over again

even if i know you will reject the same answer to your same question

 

[oldethennew]

don't ever try and explain the Grace or Eternal Forgiveness of God,
once He has called, chosen, and elected you, ...

if you 'choose' to 'quench' the Holy Spirit, (not obey), you are putting 'out The Light',
thus you would be putting yourself, you would be walking in darkness...

'parable of talents'...

 

[BillG]

You have given some bad things that people did. Did they repent of these things, and did they come back to Jesus? Yes. He is a forgiving God, as long as you repent and search for him again.

ANSWER MY QUESTIONS.

Was Peter saved when he denied Jesus?
If he died before Jesus rose again is he in hell?

The same for Thomas?

Peter denied Jesus, Thomas would not believe until he saw Jesus.

Peter cut a guards ear off.

Jesus asked Peter 3 times "Do you love me"
The first 2 times Jesus used Agape, Peter responded with Phileo.
The 3rd time Jesus used Phileo and Peter gets upset with him.

The point is that at that point in time Peter did not Agape Jesus.

Do you/we Agape Jesus?
If not then we sin against him.

Did you Agape NMC when you called him a crybaby and to stop crying?
I know NMC can take care of himself, but what about someone else who cant?

One thing is for sure.

There is no record of Peter asking for forgiveness or Thomas.
David acknowledged his sin, and who was that sin against?
Yet even during his dark days God went after him.

So David, Peter, Thomas all die before they repent/confess.

Heaven or hell?

Another thing for sure.

I'm forgiven on account of Jesus, nothing more or nothing less.

Yes I'm to forgive, reasons being to set me free, the offender free and to walk in fellowship with God.

So one last question to you.

When my Christian foster dad on the first instance of sexually abusing me and I cried all night and I was confused and angry then I died before I woke up and the same thing the following night.

I had no capacity to forgive as a 14 year old.

I die on the third night. According to you I'm not forgiven and am in hell???????????????

 

[BillG]

You have given some bad things that people did. Did they repent of these things, and did they come back to Jesus? Yes. He is a forgiving God, as long as you repent and search for him again.

Did the disciples come back to Jesus or did Jesus seek them out?

 

[BillG]

Hello, this description is not me. I preach what Jesus preaches. It is not dark, it is the truth. Good works are part of the salvation process. Good works, however, can not save you, but as I have said many time, good works is a sign that you have faith in Christ.

Doing the good works that Jesus has created for you = eternal life.
Not doing the works that Jesus has created for you = no eternal life.

NO NO NO AND NO.
Believing in Jesus is what saves you.

Romans 10:9-13
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

Which leads to

Ephesians 2:8-10
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

 

[BillG]

don't ever try and explain the Grace or Eternal Forgiveness of God,
once He has called, chosen, and elected you, ...

if you 'choose' to 'quench' the Holy Spirit, (not obey), you are putting 'out The Light',
thus you would be putting yourself, you would be walking in darkness...

'parable of talents'...

Please expand.
I don't get what you are trying to say

 

[AngelFrog]

Well since scripture says we are sealed by the Holy Spirit the moment we believe , and doesnt talk about unsealing due to anything we do , i dont believe the Holy Spirit ever leaves a believer.

I think to quench him means to hinder him , keep him from leading you

If what you say were true , then all of us would have lost our salvation , because none of us are perfect in our walk , we have all quenched the Holy Spirit at times

I have found when I do not know the meaning of something in scripture that I always kick myself when I presume to know what it means . And then judge myself by what I later find out is an errant presumption on my part.

This is a great commentary grouped together as to 1 Thessalonians and the meaning behind the admonition, not to quench the holy spirit.
One commentary as example is posted below.

Coffman's Commentaries on the Bible
Quench not the Spirit;

The word for "quench" was used of putting out a fire, and the thought is that the child of God should not put out the sacred fire within. This verse is parallel with the following:

Many are weak and sickly among you, and some sleep (1 Corinthians 11:30).

The last state is become worse than the first (2 Peter 2:20,21).

There is a sin unto death (1 John 5:16).

It is impossible to renew them (Hebrews 6:4-6).

She that giveth herself to pleasure is dead while she lives (1 Timothy 5:6).

Whosoever shall blaspheme against the Holy Spirit hath never forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin (Mark 3:29).

In all seven of the references cited, the unpardonable sin is in view.

Regarding quenching the Spirit: The reference here is most certainly to the earnest of the Holy Spirit given to every Christian upon his obedience to the gospel of Christ (Acts 2:38f and Ephesians 1:13). Just as fire may be smothered by an element such as earth or water, so the spirit of God may be quenched in people's hearts by things which the Spirit cannot abide. The cares, riches and pleasures of life choke out the word and quench the Spirit. The blessed fire can be put out by the cold drizzle of worldliness, by the heavy blanket of selfishness, or by the companionship of evil people. The negligent student of the holy scriptures can let the fire go out. The stormy winds of false doctrine can blow it out!

Of all the outrageous interpretations of this place, the prize must go to them who see the passage as an admonition not to discourage charismatic gifts, namely, tongue-speaking! Ward's comment is, "The church would have been harmed by the discouragement of men with gifts of spontaneous utterance!"[31] It is too bad Paul did not know that, for he did everything that even an apostle could do to stop it altogether down at Corinth. Besides, the word here is not "discourage" but "quench," which means to put out altogether. Cousins is doubtless correct in the opinion that "The emphasis is ethical, a warning against conduct which might stifle the Spirit's operation."[32] For a list of the seven sins that people may commit against the Holy Spirit, see under Ephesians 4:30 in my Commentary on Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians and Colossians.

For discussion of the Sin against the Holy Spirit, from the viewpoint of its being "an eternal sin," see my Commentary on Matthew, pp. 173-175. Any sin that quenches the Spirit of God in Christian hearts is the eternal and unpardonable sin. The soul draws back from the contemplation of so terrible a disaster as that. Oh child of God, keep the holy fire alive. As the vestal virgins in the ancient Roman temple guarded the sacred flame with their lives and constant devotion, let Christians tend the sacred token of heaven that burns in their souls. In Atlanta, Georgia, there is a burning street lamp, the flame of which dates back to the Civil War, a link with the past which that community has faithfully guarded for over a century. How much more should people who have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit guard against those evils which continually threaten to quench his blessed presence in their hearts!
[31] Ronald A. Ward, op. cit., p. 117.

[32] Peter E. Cousins, op. cit., p. 497.
SOURCE and more Commentaries on 1 Thessalonians 5:19 https://www.studylight.org/commentary/1-thessalonians/5-19.html

 

[BillG]

I have found when I do not know the meaning of something in scripture that I always kick myself when I presume to know what it means . And then judge myself by what I later find out is an errant presumption on my part.

This is a great commentary grouped together as to 1 Thessalonians and the meaning behind the admonition, not to quench the holy spirit.
One commentary as example is posted below.

Coffman's Commentaries on the Bible
Quench not the Spirit;

The word for "quench" was used of putting out a fire, and the thought is that the child of God should not put out the sacred fire within. This verse is parallel with the following:

Many are weak and sickly among you, and some sleep (1 Corinthians 11:30).

The last state is become worse than the first (2 Peter 2:20,21).

There is a sin unto death (1 John 5:16).

It is impossible to renew them (Hebrews 6:4-6).

She that giveth herself to pleasure is dead while she lives (1 Timothy 5:6).

Whosoever shall blaspheme against the Holy Spirit hath never forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin (Mark 3:29).

In all seven of the references cited, the unpardonable sin is in view.

Regarding quenching the Spirit: The reference here is most certainly to the earnest of the Holy Spirit given to every Christian upon his obedience to the gospel of Christ (Acts 2:38f and Ephesians 1:13). Just as fire may be smothered by an element such as earth or water, so the spirit of God may be quenched in people's hearts by things which the Spirit cannot abide. The cares, riches and pleasures of life choke out the word and quench the Spirit. The blessed fire can be put out by the cold drizzle of worldliness, by the heavy blanket of selfishness, or by the companionship of evil people. The negligent student of the holy scriptures can let the fire go out. The stormy winds of false doctrine can blow it out!

Of all the outrageous interpretations of this place, the prize must go to them who see the passage as an admonition not to discourage charismatic gifts, namely, tongue-speaking! Ward's comment is, "The church would have been harmed by the discouragement of men with gifts of spontaneous utterance!"[31] It is too bad Paul did not know that, for he did everything that even an apostle could do to stop it altogether down at Corinth. Besides, the word here is not "discourage" but "quench," which means to put out altogether. Cousins is doubtless correct in the opinion that "The emphasis is ethical, a warning against conduct which might stifle the Spirit's operation."[32] For a list of the seven sins that people may commit against the Holy Spirit, see under Ephesians 4:30 in my Commentary on Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians and Colossians.

For discussion of the Sin against the Holy Spirit, from the viewpoint of its being "an eternal sin," see my Commentary on Matthew, pp. 173-175. Any sin that quenches the Spirit of God in Christian hearts is the eternal and unpardonable sin. The soul draws back from the contemplation of so terrible a disaster as that. Oh child of God, keep the holy fire alive. As the vestal virgins in the ancient Roman temple guarded the sacred flame with their lives and constant devotion, let Christians tend the sacred token of heaven that burns in their souls. In Atlanta, Georgia, there is a burning street lamp, the flame of which dates back to the Civil War, a link with the past which that community has faithfully guarded for over a century. How much more should people who have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit guard against those evils which continually threaten to quench his blessed presence in their hearts!
[31] Ronald A. Ward, op. cit., p. 117.

[32] Peter E. Cousins, op. cit., p. 497.
SOURCE and more Commentaries on 1 Thessalonians 5:19 https://www.studylight.org/commentary/1-thessalonians/5-19.html

Any joy on you reporting my post?

The post where I quoted Bible verses and commentary on those verses.

The post where you accused me of or at the very least of inference that I said you were not a Christian.

Oh let me think again, if memory serves me you said it was ok to report it because others had done the same to you, so you felt it ok to do it to me.

I notice you did not respond to my post asking why you reported me.

I've not been banned yet, wanna try again?

 

[AngelFrog]

We might wish to consider that the sin against the holy spirit, blaspheming the holy spirit, arrives in those false teachings in the world wherein proselytizers of false doctrine hope to convince the faithful that they are not sealed by God's holy spirit in the redemption covenant. And do not have eternal life and eternal salvation assured them the moment they believe.

Romans 11:29 for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
Adam Clarke Commentary
For the gifts and calling of God, etc. - The gifts which God has bestowed upon them, and the calling - the invitation, with which he has favored them he will never revoke. In reference to this point there is no change of mind in him; and therefore the possibility and certainty of their restoration to their original privileges, of being the people of God, of enjoying every spiritual blessing with the fullness of the Gentiles, may be both reasonably and safely inferred. https://www.studylight.org/commentary/romans/11-29.html


John 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

John 6:44 Full verse Strong's Greek Lexicon http://biblehub.com/lexicon/john/6-44.htm
"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day. "
Strongs Greek Lexicon: Me draws____ ἑλκύσῃ___elkusē___1670___to drag___a prim. verb



Soteriology 101
John 6:44 https://soteriology101.com/2017/08/13/john-644/
(SIC)"....
JESUS’ OWN COMMENTARY ON THE VERSE
With all that said, we really do not need to guess what Jesus intended by the use of this term “helko.” He actually gave us His own commentary on what He meant in verse 65 when he said:

“This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them.”-John‬ ‭6:65‬ ‭(emphasis added)

 

[NoNameMcgee]

your jabs like "crying" dont effect me

i have taken the time now twice to not only explain the out of context verse you just posted


but provided whole chapters with my own personal commentary (so far most of matthew 6,7,8 and all of hebrews 10.... just for you)

you then lied and say i ignored scriptures


right now i see youre trying to provoke me
nah

lol i aint even upset at you

and im taking the time to figure out this search engine.... it seems buggy

but ill re-post my last answer if i can find it in between my bits of downtime at work

if i cant figure it out before i get home

ill type out the context all over again

even if i know you will reject the same answer to your same question

ok ben

im not at home yet but ill start now

you asked how

Matthew 6:14-15
14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

__________

fits into the promise of eternal security

this indeed is a conditional promise ben

in that regard you understand it completely

14 is the promise
15 is the condition

but what you dont understand

is what this promise is speaking of...

it is speaking to those who are already saved

forever

and the punishment to those who are currently His (He is their Father)

who do not forgive men

is when their works are tried by fire
they will not endure it

they will burn up.....

how i know this is regarding treasures in heaven? well first of all



16 Moreover when ye fast, be not, as the hypocrites, of a sad countenance: for they disfigure their faces, that they may appear unto men to fast. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

17 But thou, when thou fastest, anoint thine head, and wash thy face;

18 That thou appear not unto men to fast, but unto thy Father which is in secret: and thy Father, which seeth in secret, shall reward thee openly.

19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:

20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:

21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.


This is Jesus explaining the difference of earning treasures in heaven and on earth as part of the same message

1 corinthians 3
11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.


here is the same principal being shown again



God would need to break His promises to make matthew 6 mean what YOU THINK it means


here is another one of His promises that paired with the principal im showing you
should clearly show you

once you are His

you are saved
forever


john 6
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
___________
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.



the promise here is eternal security
37-39
and the condition is 40

to all those who believe on Jesus

 

[NoNameMcgee]

ok ben

im not at home yet but ill start now

you asked how

Matthew 6:14-15
14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

__________

fits into the promise of eternal security

this indeed is a conditional promise ben

in that regard you understand it completely

14 is the promise
15 is the condition

but what you dont understand

is what this promise is speaking of...

it is speaking to those who are already saved

forever

and the punishment to those who are currently His (He is their Father)

who do not forgive men

is when their works are tried by fire
they will not endure it

they will burn up.....

how i know this is regarding treasures in heaven? well first of all



16 Moreover when ye fast, be not, as the hypocrites, of a sad countenance: for they disfigure their faces, that they may appear unto men to fast. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

17 But thou, when thou fastest, anoint thine head, and wash thy face;

18 That thou appear not unto men to fast, but unto thy Father which is in secret: and thy Father, which seeth in secret, shall reward thee openly.

19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:

20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:

21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.


This is Jesus explaining the difference of earning treasures in heaven and on earth as part of the same message

1 corinthians 3
11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.


here is the same principal being shown again



God would need to break His promises to make matthew 6 mean what YOU THINK it means


here is another one of His promises that paired with the principal im showing you
should clearly show you

once you are His

you are saved
forever


john 6
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
___________
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.



the promise here is eternal security
37-39
and the condition is 40

to all those who believe on Jesus

also ben

for you to impute the loss of salvation to matthew 6

would mean God lies here



john 3
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

_______

if a condition for this promise included water baptism
or forgiving all men of all tresspasses against you

He would surely have mentioned it

 

[joefizz]

Peter didn't have good works when he denied Jesus.
Was he saved?

David didn't have good works when he took another man's wife then had him killed.
What did God say about David?

The same David who took a censunagainst Gods will and if memory serves me the same David who ate the shewbread.

Actually brother bill,correction,David sent Bath sheba's husband to the front of battle thereby killing him first then he "waited" after her time of mourning was over to wed her,though I know the "point" you are making.

 

[TruthTalk]

Doing the good works that Jesus has created for you = eternal life. (This is a false statement).

Not doing the works that Jesus has created for you = no eternal life. (False; name one Christian who would not).

Good works, however, can not save you - (This is a correct statement).

Hi BillG, twisting God's words and scripture to make it say what you want it to say is a very dangerous road to go down and it makes my head spin too. benhur does this all the time, sit down, stand up, sit down, shut up,
crazy man.

Jesus saves period, stop the double talk it drives me crazy.

Thanks BillG and God bless!

NO NO NO AND NO. "Believing in Jesus is what saves you."

Romans 10:9-13
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

Which leads to

Ephesians 2:8-10
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

 

[joefizz]

Any joy on you reporting my post?

The post where I quoted Bible verses and commentary on those verses.

The post where you accused me of or at the very least of inference that I said you were not a Christian.

Oh let me think again, if memory serves me you said it was ok to report it because others had done the same to you, so you felt it ok to do it to me.

I notice you did not respond to my post asking why you reported me.

I've not been banned yet, wanna try again?

I know I don't know why anyone would report you since I have seen you be "compassionate" and "civil" with even some of the biggest "trouble makers" and "trolls" on this site despite them "insulting" you or some people who simply disagree with your beliefs,you are perhaps the most level headed person on Christian chat in my opinion,I'd like to know just what someone's issue is with you too because I'm "positive" it's a "bogus" claim as "usual".

 

[NoNameMcgee]

I know I don't know why anyone would report you since I have seen you be "compassionate" and "civil" with even some of the biggest "trouble makers" and "trolls" on this site despite them "insulting" you or some people who simply disagree with your beliefs,you are perhaps the most level headed person on Christian chat in my opinion,I'd like to know just what someone's issue is with you too because I'm "positive" it's a "bogus" claim as "usual".

i agree with what you say about bill

he is a patient loving brother in Christ with a veeeeeeeery long fuse

i couldnt imagine why anyone would report him