GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
beta

beta

Senior Member
#9,721
Aug 8, 2016
2,782
333
83
#9,721
Endoscopy said:
Jesus stated that the law is in place until heaven and earth disappear. That includes all mankind. We admit this when we say we sin. Sin is breaking the law. The penalty for breaking the law is death. We are saved by grace through faith in Jesus. Those who reject Jesus will be judged by God under His law as written in the Torah in the Bible!
Click to expand...
I agree with that, please see my post to GB9 above.
 
Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#9,722
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
113
#9,722
gb9 said:
yes, there is a different law for ancient jews and modern Christians. there is no such things as a " renewed covenant ", there is a new covenant .

an eye for an eye, your eye shall not pity them, you shall not spare them. turn the other cheek, bless those who curse you, pray for those who spitefully use you.

if you think that is the same, well, you could not be more wrong.
Click to expand...
The idea that there is one God and one law for one person that does not apply to another is just not in scripture. God created all men.

You are missing the point that God is trying to make you understand with "eye for an eye". You MUST learn the culture and ways of the times that a direction was written in to learn what the teaching is. All teaching must agree with all other teaching for that is the way of the Lord, and your interpretation of this does not fit. It was written during a dime that there was no true justice but governments would take a hand off for stealing as small an item as an apple. God is explaining justice to them. You cannot take a direction from thousands of years ago and read it only with a mind of the current age.

The rule for justice remains the same, but it is not so that God wants us to take an eye of someone for taking an eye.

Jesus (who is God as God the Father is God) said that if you love me you will obey me. God created us and our world, that is God in three persons not Christ alone. He created the world we live in and tells us how to live in it with joy and abundance. We call these directions given for our benefit laws, and squirm and reason and try our best to deny them and get our own way. People have since the days of Nimrod who said to worship the sun.

If you think your way is better than God's way, think of an orthodox Jewish 13 year old boy and an orthodox gentile raised in our church. The gentile has hours and hours of television in his mind, he knows the three bad wolves and little red robinhood. He knows of Jesus and Jesus' love for him, Jesus meek, loving and mild. He can say the Lord's prayer, but he wasn't taught to picture and live the words of that prayer. The orthodox Jew has hours of memory work of scripture in his mind, his prayer is the Amidah where he repeats the magnificence of God. He is taught to live this prayer, not just say it. He is taught to take responsibility for himself now, the gentile 13 year old is treated as a child, yet. And the Jew doesn't even understand what Christ did for him.

Knowing what has been put in the mind of these two boys, who do you think has the Lord's blessing for achievement? According to statistics, the Jewish boy who doesn't even know Christ is much more productive than the gentile boy.

We have the wonderful advantage of Christ, but we lack discipline to live the life as God outlines it for us.
 
Dan_473

Dan_473

Senior Member
#9,723
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,051
113
#9,723
Blik said:
The idea that there is one God and one law for one person that does not apply to another is just not in scripture. God created all men.

You are missing the point that God is trying to make you understand with "eye for an eye". You MUST learn the culture and ways of the times that a direction was written in to learn what the teaching is. All teaching must agree with all other teaching for that is the way of the Lord, and your interpretation of this does not fit. It was written during a dime that there was no true justice but governments would take a hand off for stealing as small an item as an apple. God is explaining justice to them. You cannot take a direction from thousands of years ago and read it only with a mind of the current age.

The rule for justice remains the same, but it is not so that God wants us to take an eye of someone for taking an eye.

Jesus (who is God as God the Father is God) said that if you love me you will obey me. God created us and our world, that is God in three persons not Christ alone. He created the world we live in and tells us how to live in it with joy and abundance. We call these directions given for our benefit laws, and squirm and reason and try our best to deny them and get our own way. People have since the days of Nimrod who said to worship the sun.

If you think your way is better than God's way, think of an orthodox Jewish 13 year old boy and an orthodox gentile raised in our church. The gentile has hours and hours of television in his mind, he knows the three bad wolves and little red robinhood. He knows of Jesus and Jesus' love for him, Jesus meek, loving and mild. He can say the Lord's prayer, but he wasn't taught to picture and live the words of that prayer. The orthodox Jew has hours of memory work of scripture in his mind, his prayer is the Amidah where he repeats the magnificence of God. He is taught to live this prayer, not just say it. He is taught to take responsibility for himself now, the gentile 13 year old is treated as a child, yet. And the Jew doesn't even understand what Christ did for him.

Knowing what has been put in the mind of these two boys, who do you think has the Lord's blessing for achievement? According to statistics, the Jewish boy who doesn't even know Christ is much more productive than the gentile boy.

We have the wonderful advantage of Christ, but we lack discipline to live the life as God outlines it for us.
Click to expand...
the idea that we "must learn the culture and ways of the times that a direction was written in to learn what the teaching is" is an interesting approach.

Suppose someone says regarding the Commandment not to commit adultery that we can understand now that the rule was to prevent children from being born outside of a marriage with a husband and wife.
since we now have modern contraception, we can understand that it's not the sex that God was concerned about but the children.

I suppose someone could say to them that if that's what they really believe the law means, and that was the actual intent of the rule, then that's between them and God.
and that's really kind of the bottom line.
everyone decides for themselves, with God's help, how to bring the law into the Modern Age.
 
Endoscopy

Endoscopy

Senior Member
#9,724
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
400
83
#9,724
Blik said:
The idea that there is one God and one law for one person that does not apply to another is just not in scripture. God created all men.

You are missing the point that God is trying to make you understand with "eye for an eye". You MUST learn the culture and ways of the times that a direction was written in to learn what the teaching is. All teaching must agree with all other teaching for that is the way of the Lord, and your interpretation of this does not fit. It was written during a dime that there was no true justice but governments would take a hand off for stealing as small an item as an apple. God is explaining justice to them. You cannot take a direction from thousands of years ago and read it only with a mind of the current age.

The rule for justice remains the same, but it is not so that God wants us to take an eye of someone for taking an eye.

Jesus (who is God as God the Father is God) said that if you love me you will obey me. God created us and our world, that is God in three persons not Christ alone. He created the world we live in and tells us how to live in it with joy and abundance. We call these directions given for our benefit laws, and squirm and reason and try our best to deny them and get our own way. People have since the days of Nimrod who said to worship the sun.

If you think your way is better than God's way, think of an orthodox Jewish 13 year old boy and an orthodox gentile raised in our church. The gentile has hours and hours of television in his mind, he knows the three bad wolves and little red robinhood. He knows of Jesus and Jesus' love for him, Jesus meek, loving and mild. He can say the Lord's prayer, but he wasn't taught to picture and live the words of that prayer. The orthodox Jew has hours of memory work of scripture in his mind, his prayer is the Amidah where he repeats the magnificence of God. He is taught to live this prayer, not just say it. He is taught to take responsibility for himself now, the gentile 13 year old is treated as a child, yet. And the Jew doesn't even understand what Christ did for him.

Knowing what has been put in the mind of these two boys, who do you think has the Lord's blessing for achievement? According to statistics, the Jewish boy who doesn't even know Christ is much more productive than the gentile boy.

We have the wonderful advantage of Christ, but we lack discipline to live the life as God outlines it for us.
Click to expand...
Here is the law. Go through the list of the 613 laws scattered in the Torah and they are divided into groups. First there is the do's then the don'ts. After that each is divided into who or where they apply etc. Men, women, everyone, Israel only, etc. This is the law that is in force forever. Look them over!!

In addition to the 10 commandments there are the laws scattered through the Torah.

List of the 613 laws in the Torah
All 613 Commandments in the Old Testament Law of Moses

Discussion about the 613 laws in the Torah
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_commandments
 
Endoscopy

Endoscopy

Senior Member
#9,725
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
400
83
#9,725
Dan_473 said:
the idea that we "must learn the culture and ways of the times that a direction was written in to learn what the teaching is" is an interesting approach.

Suppose someone says regarding the Commandment not to commit adultery that we can understand now that the rule was to prevent children from being born outside of a marriage with a husband and wife.
since we now have modern contraception, we can understand that it's not the sex that God was concerned about but the children.

I suppose someone could say to them that if that's what they really believe the law means, and that was the actual intent of the rule, then that's between them and God.
and that's really kind of the bottom line.
everyone decides for themselves, with God's help, how to bring the law into the Modern Age.
Click to expand...
The problem with it being just the children doesn't take into account what psychologists that study the differences between men and women found. One stated when a man has sex with a different woman he cuts a notch on his bed post but a woman cuts a notch in her heart. Another one put it a woman gives a piece of her heart to each man she has sex with. It is the woman that suffers the consequences. What godly man knowing this would hurt a woman this way?
 
J

justpassinthrough

Senior Member
#9,726
Oct 31, 2015
2,290
588
113
#9,726
Studyman said:
Matt. 12:11 And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out?12 How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.

It would be hard to argue that rejecting His Sabbath would be considered by Him as "doing well" or "Lawful" on His Holy Sabbath that He created for man, the He followed, as well as His Apostles.

There is no mention of changing His Sabbath in the New Covenant HE promised in Jer. 31. Only how God's Laws are administered and how Sins are forgiven. He said He would write HIS, God's, the Word which became Flesh's Laws on our heart. It is man who teaches He abolished them, He said He writes them on our hearts, presumably so we wouldn't forget them********Again.
Click to expand...

Ok. So we see it’s ok to do good on the Sabbath, just like every other day of the week.

Anything else?


JPT
 
Dan_473

Dan_473

Senior Member
#9,727
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,051
113
#9,727
Endoscopy said:
The problem with it being just the children doesn't take into account what psychologists that study the differences between men and women found. One stated when a man has sex with a different woman he cuts a notch on his bed post but a woman cuts a notch in her heart. Another one put it a woman gives a piece of her heart to each man she has sex with. It is the woman that suffers the consequences. What godly man knowing this would hurt a woman this way?
Click to expand...
yes of course, consult with modern psychology.
the idea is that one would take into account one's culture and society and science.

I think one could probably find other studies in the psychology literature that would support other views about sex.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#9,728
Jul 31, 2013
37,780
13,542
113
#9,728
Blik said:
The idea that there is one God and one law for one person that does not apply to another is just not in scripture. God created all men.
Click to expand...

haven't you read in the Law that the priests on sabbath duty in the temple desecrate the sabbath and yet are innocent?
(Matthew 12:5)

​
& in the Law not everyone is designated a priest, or given duty in the temple.
 
Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#9,730
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
113
#9,730
posthuman said:

haven't you read in the Law that the priests on sabbath duty in the temple desecrate the sabbath and yet are innocent?
(Matthew 12:5)

​
& in the Law not everyone is designated a priest, or given duty in the temple.
Click to expand...
Do you actually believe that this scripture shows God as not willing to speak to different persons because of their race? Skin color? Maybe German rather than American? Or the country they are born in?
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#9,731
Jul 31, 2013
37,780
13,542
113
#9,731
Blik said:
Do you actually believe that this scripture shows God as not willing to speak to different persons because of their race? Skin color? Maybe German rather than American? Or the country they are born in?
Click to expand...
i believe He chose a people. but what you put isn't the conclusion i would draw from that fact.

and He also said, that out of a people He had not chosen, He would choose a people - and He did.
 
Endoscopy

Endoscopy

Senior Member
#9,732
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
400
83
#9,732
justpassinthrough said:
Ok. So we see it’s ok to do good on the Sabbath, just like every other day of the week.

Anything else?


JPT
Click to expand...
The example of doing good on the Sabbath was Jesus saying helping someone get his bull out of the ditch. An emergency help. Keep your facts straight and accurate.
 
Endoscopy

Endoscopy

Senior Member
#9,733
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
400
83
#9,733
Dan_473 said:
yes of course, consult with modern psychology.
the idea is that one would take into account one's culture and society and science.

I think one could probably find other studies in the psychology literature that would support other views about sex.
Click to expand...
Since it is against God's law He has reasons for it. It is stated that keeping the law will make for a happier life. Are you equating atheist and other views of ethics equivalent to Gods?? These psychologists studied men and women that had casual sex and those also who were faithful to their spouses. That was their results!! Quibble all you want.
 
Last edited:
J

justpassinthrough

Senior Member
#9,734
Oct 31, 2015
2,290
588
113
#9,734
Deade said:
Hello justpassinthrough,

We are surely under grace. We do not keep the Fourth Commandment by the law of Mosses, but we don't throw it away either. I am not SDA but they called the mark of the beast properly. I do not keep the strict ordinances of any of the 10 Commandments, but I still honor them spiritually.

Yours, Deade
Click to expand...

How does one not lie, spiritually?



JPT
 
PS

PS

Senior Member
#9,735
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
#9,735
Blik said:
Do you actually believe that this scripture shows God as not willing to speak to different persons because of their race? Skin color? Maybe German rather than American? Or the country they are born in?
Click to expand...
The God of the Jews, is the Jewish NATIONAL god. The true God came to unite all nations, but they rejected Him.
 
beta

beta

Senior Member
#9,736
Aug 8, 2016
2,782
333
83
#9,736
justpassinthrough said:
Ok. So we see it’s ok to do good on the Sabbath, just like every other day of the week.

Anything else?


JPT
Click to expand...
It seems you don't attach much respect to GOD's chosen Holy Day....trying to bring it down to an 'everyday the same level' just because we are allowed to do good works. It's a wonderful oportunity to be lifted up to a more GODLY level we are supposed to 'aim for.
 
trofimus

trofimus

Senior Member
#9,737
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
#9,737
beta said:
It seems you don't attach much respect to GOD's chosen Holy Day....trying to bring it down to an 'everyday the same level' just because we are allowed to do good works. It's a wonderful oportunity to be lifted up to a more GODLY level we are supposed to 'aim for.
Click to expand...
You can be lifted up to a more GODLY level on Monday, too. Try it.
 
beta

beta

Senior Member
#9,738
Aug 8, 2016
2,782
333
83
#9,738
PS said:
The God of the Jews, is the Jewish NATIONAL god. The true God came to unite all nations, but they rejected Him.
Click to expand...
It is the SAME God who tries to unite all mankind, it's just that He started with ONE nation the Jews who were supposed to be/become an EXAMPLE to all other nations...but failed .Deut 4v6-8.
 
beta

beta

Senior Member
#9,739
Aug 8, 2016
2,782
333
83
#9,739
trofimus said:
You can be lifted up to a more GODLY level on Monday, too. Try it.
Click to expand...
It does not say in scripture that monday or any other days are HOLY....why are you contradicting GOD ?
Your own opinion/understanding is at work which we are told not to indulge in...why ? because it is from another spirit. Learn to speak the words of GOD !
 
You must log in or register to reply here.