GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

[Endoscopy]

It always was Canaan, it got changed to Israel after Jacob changed his name to Israel. The name has stuck after everyone was exterminated.

I am not one of those you speak of, but I do like things to be correct. You have to be like that in electronics and I was in the trade for 41 years and had to upgrade from valves to transistors, from transistors to integrated circuits, from analogue to digital, and from cable to Sky. I upgraded, now it is your turn to move from the Old Testament and into the New Testament. You need to leave the Old that God changed. Leave it behind, and move into God's New Heavenly Promised Land. The earth will be destroyed.

You can call England what you like for me, it is still the same piece of land. The same goes for Canaan.

By the way Canaan has been invaded many times and I was reading the people who live there today are not the people of the Bible. They were overcome by invaders who simply adopted the religion. This is from memory by the way, so I wouldn't swear to it without seeing it again.

Your British terminology is coming through. I started working in electronics 48 years ago. In school I learned about TUBES and never saw one of them. Learned about transistors but nothing about integrated circuits. Started working and ICs were mostly used in the product I tested before it was shipped. I later transfered to field service and got to travel the country and world. Telemetry is used to gather information about the vehicle being tested. Therefore I learned a lot of information from the scientists I worked with when installing, teaching, and repairing the telemetry systems. That part of my job I enjoyed. I got to learn from the experts about many different things.

 

[Endoscopy]

well, Jesus said that

on the Sabbath the priests in the temple*[c]break the Sabbath and are innocent

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew12&version=NASB

so I would say that Jesus breaks the rule but is considered innocent

an interesting related question would be
what do you do if in order to keep one rule, you must break another?

You ignore that Jesus was correcting the Pharisees in their view of the law. He asked them a question (Is it lawful to...) and added information to it. They were as usual left without an answer.

 

[Endoscopy]

It always was Canaan, it got changed to Israel after Jacob changed his name to Israel. The name has stuck after everyone was exterminated.

I am not one of those you speak of, but I do like things to be correct. You have to be like that in electronics and I was in the trade for 41 years and had to upgrade from valves to transistors, from transistors to integrated circuits, from analogue to digital, and from cable to Sky. I upgraded, now it is your turn to move from the Old Testament and into the New Testament. You need to leave the Old that God changed. Leave it behind, and move into God's New Heavenly Promised Land. The earth will be destroyed.

You can call England what you like for me, it is still the same piece of land. The same goes for Canaan.

By the way Canaan has been invaded many times and I was reading the people who live there today are not the people of the Bible. They were overcome by invaders who simply adopted the religion. This is from memory by the way, so I wouldn't swear to it without seeing it again.

In point of fact Israel was the most fought over piece of land. It was part of the fertile crescent and was the parhway between the two major powers at each end. Both wanted to control it because of its strategic value.

 

[PS]

In point of fact Israel was the most fought over piece of land. It was part of the fertile crescent and was the parhway between the two major powers at each end. Both wanted to control it because of its strategic value.

That is how I understood it. Apparently Jericho occupied a strategic position and was destroyed a number of times.

 

[Dan_473]

You ignore that Jesus was correcting the Pharisees in their view of the law. He asked them a question (Is it lawful to...) and added information to it. They were as usual left without an answer.

i do not ignore that Jesus was correcting the Pharisees

in his correction of the Pharisees, he says that

the priests break the Sabbath and are innocent

 

[Shamah]

i do not ignore that Jesus was correcting the Pharisees

in his correction of the Pharisees, he says that

the priests break the Sabbath and are innocent

WHy are the priests blameless?

Because they were doing the will of YHWH...

Just

as

Scripture

tells us

to

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Isayah 58:11-14, "YHWH will guide you continually, and satisfy your soul in drought, and make fat; (strengthen), your bones. You will be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters do not fail. And those of you will rebuild the old waste places; you will raise up the foundations of many generations; and you will be called the Repairer of the Breach, the Restorer of Streets to Dwell In; If you turn away your foot from breaking the Sabbath: from doing your pleasure; your own business, your own pleasure, on My holy day, and call the Sabbath a delight; the holy day of YHWH honorable, and will honor Him by not doing your own ways, nor finding your own pleasure, nor engaging in idle conversation: Then you will find your joy in YHWH; and I will cause you to ride on the high places of the earth, and feed you with the heritage of Yaaqob your father, for the mouth of YHWH has spoken it."

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 12:12, "And how much more valuable is a man than a sheep? Therefore, it is Lawful to do righteousness on the Sabbath."[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT]

 

[PS]

WHy are the priests blameless?

Because they were doing the will of YHWH...

Were they doing the will of YHWH?

In the time of Christ, the Sadducees comprised most of the priesthood and were known to be a wealthy class of people. The Sadducees did not believe in a resurrection (Matthew 22:23) or in any kind of spiritual realm such as angels and demons live in (Acts 23:8). The chief priests Caiaphas and Annas were instrumental in having Jesus crucified (John 18:13).


https://www.gotquestions.org/Levitical-priesthood.html

 

[Dan_473]

WHy are the priests blameless?

Because they were doing the will of YHWH...

Just

as

Scripture

tells us

to

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Isayah 58:11-14, "YHWH will guide you continually, and satisfy your soul in drought, and make fat; (strengthen), your bones. You will be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters do not fail. And those of you will rebuild the old waste places; you will raise up the foundations of many generations; and you will be called the Repairer of the Breach, the Restorer of Streets to Dwell In; If you turn away your foot from breaking the Sabbath: from doing your pleasure; your own business, your own pleasure, on My holy day, and call the Sabbath a delight; the holy day of YHWH honorable, and will honor Him by not doing your own ways, nor finding your own pleasure, nor engaging in idle conversation: Then you will find your joy in YHWH; and I will cause you to ride on the high places of the earth, and feed you with the heritage of Yaaqob your father, for the mouth of YHWH has spoken it."

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 12:12, "And how much more valuable is a man than a sheep? Therefore, it is Lawful to do righteousness on the Sabbath."[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT]

" WHy are the priests blameless?

Because they were doing the will of YHWH..."

i know, right?

then we see a paradox

sometimes doing the will of God involves breaking the Sabbath

 

[Studyman]

Were they doing the will of YHWH?

In the time of Christ, the Sadducees comprised most of the priesthood and were known to be a wealthy class of people. The Sadducees did not believe in a resurrection (Matthew 22:23) or in any kind of spiritual realm such as angels and demons live in (Acts 23:8). The chief priests Caiaphas and Annas were instrumental in having Jesus crucified (John 18:13).


https://www.gotquestions.org/Levitical-priesthood.html

Jesus was speaking of the duties of an obedient Levite Priest which was given by God through Moses. Not the false priests who corrupted the Priesthood covenant and caused God to change it.

 

[Studyman]

" WHy are the priests blameless?

Because they were doing the will of YHWH..."

i know, right?

then we see a paradox

sometimes doing the will of God involves breaking the Sabbath

The Priests were "separated" from the rest of Israel. They were given specific duties than no other tribe was given. Part of their "works" included performing rites and sacrifices on God's Holy Sabbath. They were "blameless" because they were following the instructions given to them by God.

Not because they were disobeying the instructions given by them from God.

 

[justpassinthrough]

The 10 Commandments are eternal and should be obeyed by all who desire to dwell in God’s kingdom forever.


The the question is, how are we to keep the Sabbath under the New Covenant.


Under the the law of Moses, there were strict guidelines that were to be observed to the point of putting to death anyone who so much as picked up stickers to kindle a fire on the Sabbath.


Now under the New Covenant those strict guidelines concerning the Sabbath have become obsolete.


I dont see any commands to gather and worship Jesus on either Saturday or Sunday, or any specific Instructions from Jesus or the Apostles as to how we are to observe the Sabbath today.


If anyone has a scripture to share share that imposes a command to gather on the Sabbath to worship Jesus, or any specific instructions about how we are to observe the Sabbath under the New Covenant, then please share them.




JLB

 

[PS]

Jesus was speaking of the duties of an obedient Levite Priest which was given by God through Moses. Not the false priests who corrupted the Priesthood covenant and caused God to change it.

and are blameless? —
The double offerings required on the sabbath day (Num_28:9) could not be presented, and the new-baked showbread (Lev_24:5; 1Ch_9:32) could not be prepared and presented every sabbath morning, without a good deal of servile work on the part of the priests; not to speak of circumcision, which, when the child’s eighth day happened to fall on a sabbath, had to be performed by the priests on that day. (See on Joh_7:22, Joh_7:23). (Jamison Fawcett Brown)

Good point.
They baked bread on the Sabbath, lighting fires etc. and even performed circumcision, yet they were blameless. That was the point Jesus was making.

 

[Studyman]

The 10 Commandments are eternal and should be obeyed by all who desire to dwell in God’s kingdom forever.


The the question is, how are we to keep the Sabbath under the New Covenant.


Under the the law of Moses, there were strict guidelines that were to be observed to the point of putting to death anyone who so much as picked up stickers to kindle a fire on the Sabbath.


Now under the New Covenant those strict guidelines concerning the Sabbath have become obsolete.


I dont see any commands to gather and worship Jesus on either Saturday or Sunday, or any specific Instructions from Jesus or the Apostles as to how we are to observe the Sabbath today.


If anyone has a scripture to share share that imposes a command to gather on the Sabbath to worship Jesus, or any specific instructions about how we are to observe the Sabbath under the New Covenant, then please share them.

JLB

Matt. 12:11 And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out?12 How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.

It would be hard to argue that rejecting His Sabbath would be considered by Him as "doing well" or "Lawful" on His Holy Sabbath that He created for man, the He followed, as well as His Apostles.

There is no mention of changing His Sabbath in the New Covenant HE promised in Jer. 31. Only how God's Laws are administered and how Sins are forgiven. He said He would write HIS, God's, the Word which became Flesh's Laws on our heart. It is man who teaches He abolished them, He said He writes them on our hearts, presumably so we wouldn't forget them********Again.

 

[Studyman]

and are blameless? —
The double offerings required on the sabbath day (Num_28:9) could not be presented, and the new-baked showbread (Lev_24:5; 1Ch_9:32) could not be prepared and presented every sabbath morning, without a good deal of servile work on the part of the priests; not to speak of circumcision, which, when the child’s eighth day happened to fall on a sabbath, had to be performed by the priests on that day. (See on Joh_7:22, Joh_7:23). (Jamison Fawcett Brown)

Good point.
They baked bread on the Sabbath, lighting fires etc. and even performed circumcision, yet they were blameless. That was the point Jesus was making.

Yes, they were blameless because they were doing what God had commanded them. It was only by rejecting these instructions and adding their own that they lost sight of the true God.


Zechariahs, however, a priest also, (Luke 1) didn't follow the "Law" of the Pharisees, but followed God's instructions and as a result knew Jesus when He came.

A fascinating truth and discussion that many on this forum refuse to even discuss.

thanks for the thoughtful reply.

 

[Endoscopy]

Were they doing the will of YHWH?

In the time of Christ, the Sadducees comprised most of the priesthood and were known to be a wealthy class of people. The Sadducees did not believe in a resurrection (Matthew 22:23) or in any kind of spiritual realm such as angels and demons live in (Acts 23:8). The chief priests Caiaphas and Annas were instrumental in having Jesus crucified (John 18:13).


https://www.gotquestions.org/Levitical-priesthood.html

Going beyond what they were blameless for. It was breaking the Sabbath because of their priestly duties fequired them to carry them out on the Sabbath.

 

[Endoscopy]

The 10 Commandments are eternal and should be obeyed by all who desire to dwell in God’s kingdom forever.


The the question is, how are we to keep the Sabbath under the New Covenant.


Under the the law of Moses, there were strict guidelines that were to be observed to the point of putting to death anyone who so much as picked up stickers to kindle a fire on the Sabbath.


Now under the New Covenant those strict guidelines concerning the Sabbath have become obsolete.


I dont see any commands to gather and worship Jesus on either Saturday or Sunday, or any specific Instructions from Jesus or the Apostles as to how we are to observe the Sabbath today.


If anyone has a scripture to share share that imposes a command to gather on the Sabbath to worship Jesus, or any specific instructions about how we are to observe the Sabbath under the New Covenant, then please share them.




JLB

That goes for all of the law scattered through the Torah. If you think keeping the commandments is hard the rest of the law is even harder!!

In addition to the 10 commandments there are the laws scattered through the Torah.

List of the 613 laws in the Torah
All 613 Commandments in the Old Testament Law of Moses

Discussion about the 613 laws in the Torah
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_commandments

 

[PS]

That goes for all of the law scattered through the Torah. If you think keeping the commandments is hard the rest of the law is even harder!!

In addition to the 10 commandments there are the laws scattered through the Torah.

List of the 613 laws in the Torah
All 613 Commandments in the Old Testament Law of Moses

Discussion about the 613 laws in the Torah
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_commandments

Have you ever thought that Judaism is the religion of the Jews for the Jews.

There is no requirement for the rest of the world to keep either Jewish Law or Jewish traditions.

Think on.

 

[Dan_473]

The Priests were "separated" from the rest of Israel. They were given specific duties than no other tribe was given. Part of their "works" included performing rites and sacrifices on God's Holy Sabbath. They were "blameless" because they were following the instructions given to them by God.

Not because they were disobeying the instructions given by them from God.

"They were "blameless" because they were following the instructions given to them by God."

i know!

and Jesus says
they break the Sabbath

 

[Shamah]

"They were "blameless" because they were following the instructions given to them by God."

i know!

and Jesus says
they break the Sabbath

So what does this mean for us.

He says they were doing the will of the Most High, and we know in that day those Priests were appointed to the Temple service, and they carrying that out...

So does that mean the Sabbath is abolished because the priests performed Temple service on the Sabbath? or that it's ok to watch football on the Sabbath?

I am curious to your view, you made a statement, I would like to hear your understanding of it.

 

[Endoscopy]

Have you ever thought that Judaism is the religion of the Jews for the Jews.

There is no requirement for the rest of the world to keep either Jewish Law or Jewish traditions.

Think on.

I suggest you need to understand what Jesus stated about the law. I take his words over yours!! In point of fact we admit we sin and fall short of the glory of God. What is the definition of sin? Breaking the law!!

Matthew 5:13 to 20 NIV
Jesus saying he came to fulfill the law and the prophets.

Salt and Light
13 “You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.
14 “You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. 16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.
The Fulfillment of the Law
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.