Baptism and holy spirit
- Thread starter soberxp
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
E
That is not what waggles said, He said it was a sign.
If God wants me to speak to a forigner in their native language Then God will grant me the gift of tongues, But I do not see at this point that needing to occure, because prety much every person I know speaks english,
but I am open to if God desires for me to speak to people of other languages who do nto speak english for God to speak to use me to speak to them, But I am sure he has people who know their language to speak in them so not sure why he would needs me.
Back in NT times this was not the case. so God needs alot of people to use this gift.. And God used it to his honor and glory.
If God wants me to speak to a forigner in their native language Then God will grant me the gift of tongues, But I do not see at this point that needing to occure, because prety much every person I know speaks english,
but I am open to if God desires for me to speak to people of other languages who do nto speak english for God to speak to use me to speak to them, But I am sure he has people who know their language to speak in them so not sure why he would needs me.
Back in NT times this was not the case. so God needs alot of people to use this gift.. And God used it to his honor and glory.
No they weren't.
Paul explicitly states that there is "one baptism" (Eph 4:5), and that it is by one spirit that we are baptized into the body of Christ (1 Cor 12:13).
This may be another topic, but many scholars acknowledge that Mark 16:9-20 are an addition to the text, and are not authentic.
I agree that the manifestations are available to us today, but you are dead wrong to accuse people who do not speak in tongues of "being without the Holy Spirit".
Well we aren't using the words God chose in hebre w or greek. We're using the words translators felt best conveyed the hebrew or greek words.
And I'm not believing what I want. I am believing as the apostle said that to one is given the gift of tongues, to another the gift of healing, to another etc., Etc. Nowhere does he say: to all are given the gift of tongues. You say that - not him. So who is believing what they want to believe...?
And I'm not believing what I want. I am believing as the apostle said that to one is given the gift of tongues, to another the gift of healing, to another etc., Etc. Nowhere does he say: to all are given the gift of tongues. You say that - not him. So who is believing what they want to believe...?
Speaking in tongues IS a sign that a person is born again of the Holy Spirit.
But there are millions of born-again Christians who do not speak in tongues, even though they could, and God wants them to (1 Cor 14:5).
That has nothing whatsoever to do with speaking in tongues. Speaking in tongues is not an outreach tool.
Tongues is not a gift. It is one of the nine manifestations of the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Me too. But again, that has nothing to do with speaking in tongues.
As I said early on, most Christians simply do not understand what speaking in tongues is, and what it is for. It has nothing to do with spreading the gospel. It is not a witnessing tool. Its primary uses are to edify the person speaking (1 Cor 14:4), you are giving thanks well to God (1 Cor 14:17), and several more.
Paul goes so far as to say that when a person speaks in tongues in public, it must be interpreted so the church can be edified. Since people who gather together generally all speak the same language, if someone spoke in tongues but did not interpret, nobody would know what he said. He would be speaking to the air.
I don't want you to think I'm trying to be mean, but you should read a thread, or at least the last 4 or 5 pages, before you begin to state what has not been said by anyone. I can tell you are of some intelligence, so I know had you read it, you would see that it had been stated numerous times that it you don't speak in tongues then you don't have the Spirit. So tell me, is a man saved if he has not been born with the Spirit?
E
Again, That is not what waggles is saying (please stick to the context of my origional post), he says if you do not speak, your not saved. as many so called Pentecostals do. (not all)
Thats not what the bible says,
In acts, it says the people heard them speak in their own language (the gospel)
Again, I disagree, it is a gift of the spirit, and not everyone has it.. If they did, we all would speak it.
The gift of tongues was used to speak to others, it also was used in giving prophesy thats why it had to be interpreted. Apart from giving the gospel. and prophesy, tongues has no use.
what the church calls tongues today is nothing like what the NT church did, I know I have witnessed it..
Thats not what the bible says,
In acts, it says the people heard them speak in their own language (the gospel)
Again, I disagree, it is a gift of the spirit, and not everyone has it.. If they did, we all would speak it.
The gift of tongues was used to speak to others, it also was used in giving prophesy thats why it had to be interpreted. Apart from giving the gospel. and prophesy, tongues has no use.
what the church calls tongues today is nothing like what the NT church did, I know I have witnessed it..
I don't know. Does everyone need to prove to you that they have met God?
And come to think of it, how would the apostle say false ones would join with them in the latter days and how tares and wheat grow up side by side if it could be easily proven who was a tare by a simple test of whether or not you manifested tongues? And if it were so, what about tares faking tongues?
And come to think of it, how would the apostle say false ones would join with them in the latter days and how tares and wheat grow up side by side if it could be easily proven who was a tare by a simple test of whether or not you manifested tongues? And if it were so, what about tares faking tongues?
It has never been about proving that one has been born again by the power of the Holy Spirit. The evidence is seen in the changed life for Christ. 2 Cor 5:17
You are quite correct in that posers will fake gifts and act like they know the Lord but they always reveal themselves as fakers sooner or later. I have noticed that those who voice their opinions with the greatest ardor are the ones most suspect in their assertions.
For me the matter is settled. One receives the Holy Spirit when they are born again. Those who are born again receive many fillings of the Holy Spirit when they lend themselves to the Lords service. Strength to witness to family, friends, and those with whom they come in contact with every day. Those who yield themselves to Gods will in many situations from witnessing to suffering for Gods glory will be filled with the Holy Spirit so they cannot fail.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
You are quite correct in that posers will fake gifts and act like they know the Lord but they always reveal themselves as fakers sooner or later. I have noticed that those who voice their opinions with the greatest ardor are the ones most suspect in their assertions.
For me the matter is settled. One receives the Holy Spirit when they are born again. Those who are born again receive many fillings of the Holy Spirit when they lend themselves to the Lords service. Strength to witness to family, friends, and those with whom they come in contact with every day. Those who yield themselves to Gods will in many situations from witnessing to suffering for Gods glory will be filled with the Holy Spirit so they cannot fail.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
It seems to me that there's possibly some confusion between being born of the Spirit(salvation) and the baptism in the Holy Spirit.
Everyone who is saved has received the HS at salvation, & during that time there's no evidence of tongues because they weren't baptized in the HS.
When being baptized in the HS, tongues can happen, but it's not the only evidence. That is a tradition of some denominations.
Let me explain:
Acts 2:16-18 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] but this is what was spoken of through the prophet Joel: [SUP]17 [/SUP] 'AND IT SHALL BE IN THE LAST DAYS,' God says, 'THAT I WILL POUR FORTH OF MY SPIRIT ON ALL MANKIND; AND YOUR SONS AND YOUR DAUGHTERS SHALL PROPHESY, AND YOUR YOUNG MEN SHALL SEE VISIONS, AND YOUR OLD MEN SHALL DREAM DREAMS; [SUP]18 [/SUP] EVEN ON MY BONDSLAVES, BOTH MEN AND WOMEN, I WILL IN THOSE DAYS POUR FORTH OF MY SPIRIT And they shall prophesy.
Those on the day of Pentecost spoke with tongues, yes, but they were also prophesying to all the Jews in their own languages.
Acts 2:7-11 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] They were amazed and astonished, saying, "Why, are not all these who are speaking Galileans? [SUP]8 [/SUP] "And how is it that we each hear them in our own language to which we were born? [SUP]9 [/SUP] "Parthians and Medes and Elamites, and residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, [SUP]10 [/SUP] Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the districts of Libya around Cyrene, and visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, [SUP]11 [/SUP] Cretans and Arabs—we hear them in our own tongues speaking of the mighty deeds of God."
So, those baptized in the Spirit will not always speak in tongues, but in some manner they will prophesy.
When I first received the baptism of the HS, I was praising God boldly, quoting scripture I had yet to learn. Those around me said I didn't get it yet because I didn't speak in tongues.
I continued to "seek" this baptism, & the next time I did speak in tongues. But that was a "refreshing", & not a baptism. The early church experienced this refreshing/refilling:
Acts 4:23-31 (KJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] And being let go, they went to their own company, and reported all that the chief priests and elders had said unto them. [SUP]24 [/SUP] And when they heard that, they lifted up their voice to God with one accord, and said, Lord, thou art God, which hast made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all that in them is: [SUP]25 [/SUP] Who by the mouth of thy servant David hast said, Why did the heathen rage, and the people imagine vain things? [SUP]26 [/SUP] The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ. [SUP]27 [/SUP] For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together, [SUP]28 [/SUP] For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done. [SUP]29 [/SUP] And now, Lord, behold their threatenings: and grant unto thy servants, that with all boldness they may speak thy word, [SUP]30 [/SUP] By stretching forth thine hand to heal; and that signs and wonders may be done by the name of thy holy child Jesus. [SUP]31 [/SUP] And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled(refreshed) with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.
Everyone who is saved has received the HS at salvation, & during that time there's no evidence of tongues because they weren't baptized in the HS.
When being baptized in the HS, tongues can happen, but it's not the only evidence. That is a tradition of some denominations.
Let me explain:
Acts 2:16-18 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] but this is what was spoken of through the prophet Joel: [SUP]17 [/SUP] 'AND IT SHALL BE IN THE LAST DAYS,' God says, 'THAT I WILL POUR FORTH OF MY SPIRIT ON ALL MANKIND; AND YOUR SONS AND YOUR DAUGHTERS SHALL PROPHESY, AND YOUR YOUNG MEN SHALL SEE VISIONS, AND YOUR OLD MEN SHALL DREAM DREAMS; [SUP]18 [/SUP] EVEN ON MY BONDSLAVES, BOTH MEN AND WOMEN, I WILL IN THOSE DAYS POUR FORTH OF MY SPIRIT And they shall prophesy.
Those on the day of Pentecost spoke with tongues, yes, but they were also prophesying to all the Jews in their own languages.
Acts 2:7-11 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] They were amazed and astonished, saying, "Why, are not all these who are speaking Galileans? [SUP]8 [/SUP] "And how is it that we each hear them in our own language to which we were born? [SUP]9 [/SUP] "Parthians and Medes and Elamites, and residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, [SUP]10 [/SUP] Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the districts of Libya around Cyrene, and visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, [SUP]11 [/SUP] Cretans and Arabs—we hear them in our own tongues speaking of the mighty deeds of God."
So, those baptized in the Spirit will not always speak in tongues, but in some manner they will prophesy.
When I first received the baptism of the HS, I was praising God boldly, quoting scripture I had yet to learn. Those around me said I didn't get it yet because I didn't speak in tongues.
I continued to "seek" this baptism, & the next time I did speak in tongues. But that was a "refreshing", & not a baptism. The early church experienced this refreshing/refilling:
Acts 4:23-31 (KJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] And being let go, they went to their own company, and reported all that the chief priests and elders had said unto them. [SUP]24 [/SUP] And when they heard that, they lifted up their voice to God with one accord, and said, Lord, thou art God, which hast made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all that in them is: [SUP]25 [/SUP] Who by the mouth of thy servant David hast said, Why did the heathen rage, and the people imagine vain things? [SUP]26 [/SUP] The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ. [SUP]27 [/SUP] For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together, [SUP]28 [/SUP] For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done. [SUP]29 [/SUP] And now, Lord, behold their threatenings: and grant unto thy servants, that with all boldness they may speak thy word, [SUP]30 [/SUP] By stretching forth thine hand to heal; and that signs and wonders may be done by the name of thy holy child Jesus. [SUP]31 [/SUP] And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled(refreshed) with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.
James 3:1 (ESV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, for you know that we who teach will be judged with greater strictness.
Judged primarily by God, but sometimes by man as we have seen in this thread.
Speak like a teacher, be judged like a teacher.
Many such 'teachers' are strictly judged by their peers for incomplete answers, lack of proper exegesis, & little scriptural evidence.
Those who judge such matters should be careful: when we judge/reprove, we stand as ambassadors of Christ, & insufficient/improper judgment carries its own biblical penalty.
This is a warning in love. I haven't tried to point at anyone.
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, for you know that we who teach will be judged with greater strictness.
Judged primarily by God, but sometimes by man as we have seen in this thread.
Speak like a teacher, be judged like a teacher.
Many such 'teachers' are strictly judged by their peers for incomplete answers, lack of proper exegesis, & little scriptural evidence.
Those who judge such matters should be careful: when we judge/reprove, we stand as ambassadors of Christ, & insufficient/improper judgment carries its own biblical penalty.
This is a warning in love. I haven't tried to point at anyone.