Manifest doesn't just mean "seen" by way of eyes. It means observed.. heard, touched, felt, smelled, tasted, etc. The Holy Ghost ITSELF is a witness. That's why it is observable by others when it is poured out... and lacking the observable evidence, the church in Jerusalem (Acts 8) sent people to pray for them because they knew they hadn't yet received it.
Baptism and holy spirit
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Every Christian has received the singular gift of the Holy Spirit, which can be manifested in nine different ways. Every Christian has the inherent ability to operate those manifestations. I believe what Paul wrote in 1 Cor 14:5 was inspired by God, and that God wants all Christians to speak in tongues. And prophesy, and interpret. Hopefully you would agree that every Christian can hear from God via word of knowledge and word of wisdom (basically, God telling you something, and what to do about it). If a person receives revelation to heal someone, or perform a miracle, the person has the ability to do it.
Several manifestations do require revelation from God to be carried out. A Christian cannot just command someone to be healed, or command a miracle at his whim.
Likewise, a Christian cannot command that God give them revelation (word of knowledge, word of wisdom). ...but they can surely ask, and God just might answer..
But a Christian CAN speak in tongues any time he wants to, no matter where he is or no matter what he is doing.
Similarly, every Christian has the ability to bring forth a word of prophecy, or speak in tongues and interpret in a meeting. (I'm not talking about foretelling the future, but speaking words of edification, exhortation, and comfort 1 Cor 14:3-4)
Likewise, a Christian cannot command that God give them revelation (word of knowledge, word of wisdom). ...but they can surely ask, and God just might answer..
But a Christian CAN speak in tongues any time he wants to, no matter where he is or no matter what he is doing.
Similarly, every Christian has the ability to bring forth a word of prophecy, or speak in tongues and interpret in a meeting. (I'm not talking about foretelling the future, but speaking words of edification, exhortation, and comfort 1 Cor 14:3-4)
That's twice you've mentioned the word "saved" or not saved and I don't think i've used that word until now. I used the terms believe (you definitely believe Jesus is the saviour and has died for your sins and raised again according to the scriptures) and you are a disciple (you continue to seek, read, etc) but we're not talking about those two things (which are both necessary). We are talking about the Holy Ghost specifically... which the believing disciples (Peter, John, etc) had to get IN ADDITION to their belief and discipleship. That was the case of the first recorded instance of outpouring of the Holy Ghost....and was still the case of the believing disciples in the last example (Acts 19)... Paul actually had to lay hands on them before these believing disciples were able to receive the Holy Ghost. It is NOT some automatic thing that comes upon belief. it is a specific, observable event that may be at a time AFTER belief and discipleship.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
Receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit is not a separate event from becoming saved. When a person believes on the Lord Jesus Christ, at that instant he is sealed with the gift of the Holy Spirit, the guarantee of salvation (Eph 1:13-14).
EVERY Christian has the gift of the Holy Spirit living in him, whether he speaks in tongues or not.
EVERY Christian has the gift of the Holy Spirit living in him, whether he speaks in tongues or not.
If it came to you from God, it's a gift from God. No need to very carefully be sure and not call it a gift. All that comes to us from God is a gift from God.
Magenta gave the verse telling us to one is given this manifestation/gift and to another a different one. There is no way to understand plain english and change the meaning of "to one is given" to "to all are given." They are all the same Holy Spirit which we all have, but different manifestations/ gifts. And it would be appalling for me to receive one of these manifestations/gifts and then accuse all who didn't receive the same exact manifestation/gift as I did of being unsaved and without the Spirit.
The gift is the gift of the Holy Spirit. The manifestations are evidences of that singular gift.
Manifestations are not gifts. They are manifestations.
Going back to the light bulb analogy, the gift is the light bulb. It's two manifestations are light and heat. If I never turn on the light, I will never experience its manifestations. But I still have the gift, the light bulb.
And it's true that in the church (the overall context of 1 Cor 12-14), not everyone operates all the manifestations. If they did, the meeting would never end. It's also true that different Christians excel at different manifestations. But I don't think we can ignore these two scripture:
1 Cor 12:
7) But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
1 Cor 14:
5) I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
God, through Paul, would like every Christian to speak in tongues, and prophesy.
Again, we received the gift, we operate the manifestations of that gift.
Kelby did not accuse you of being unsaved. I believe he is wrong to suggest that a person receives the gift of the Holy Spirit after he is saved.
Manifestations are not gifts. They are manifestations.
Going back to the light bulb analogy, the gift is the light bulb. It's two manifestations are light and heat. If I never turn on the light, I will never experience its manifestations. But I still have the gift, the light bulb.
And it's true that in the church (the overall context of 1 Cor 12-14), not everyone operates all the manifestations. If they did, the meeting would never end. It's also true that different Christians excel at different manifestations. But I don't think we can ignore these two scripture:
1 Cor 12:
7) But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
1 Cor 14:
5) I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
God, through Paul, would like every Christian to speak in tongues, and prophesy.
Again, we received the gift, we operate the manifestations of that gift.
Kelby did not accuse you of being unsaved. I believe he is wrong to suggest that a person receives the gift of the Holy Spirit after he is saved.
You see that is the problem
when peoples claim to have been baptized in the Holy Spirit outside
the teaching of scripture it leads to confusion over truth and division
over experiences - are my claims valid?
Given that the Holy Spirit is also the Spirit of truth it behoves God to
be consistent in revealing his truth for all to experience and understand.
In my Pentecostal church - The Revival Fellowship - all our adult aged
members are born again by water and the Holy Spirit.
Everybody is water baptized by full immersion, and
everybody is baptized in the Holy Spirit with the Bible evidence [sign]
of speaking in a new tongue.
Now this is different to the operation of the voice gifts that apply in a
worship meeting - diversity of tongues, followed by interpretation,
and the gift of prophecy.
Not all operate these gifts in a meeting.
Remember there are nine gifts in the Spirit-filled church and so there
is a gift for everybody to use according to need.
when peoples claim to have been baptized in the Holy Spirit outside
the teaching of scripture it leads to confusion over truth and division
over experiences - are my claims valid?
Given that the Holy Spirit is also the Spirit of truth it behoves God to
be consistent in revealing his truth for all to experience and understand.
In my Pentecostal church - The Revival Fellowship - all our adult aged
members are born again by water and the Holy Spirit.
Everybody is water baptized by full immersion, and
everybody is baptized in the Holy Spirit with the Bible evidence [sign]
of speaking in a new tongue.
Now this is different to the operation of the voice gifts that apply in a
worship meeting - diversity of tongues, followed by interpretation,
and the gift of prophecy.
Not all operate these gifts in a meeting.
Remember there are nine gifts in the Spirit-filled church and so there
is a gift for everybody to use according to need.
I'm not sure if it matters what term you use or not...if you say one cannot possibly have received the Spirit unless/until they've spoken in tongues, that is the same as saying they are unsaved because if you have not received the Spirit, you have not been born again from above, you are not one of His and you will not be with Him for eternity.
I've walked with God for 12 years now. I'm not in danger of beginning to doubt that just because you say I haven't met Him because I've never spoken in tongues. 
But it is curious and, of course, I can't keep silent if anyone tries to convince a saved person that they aren't saved because they haven't received one of the manifestations/gifts of the Spirit. I literally can't stay silent when that happens.
But it is curious and, of course, I can't keep silent if anyone tries to convince a saved person that they aren't saved because they haven't received one of the manifestations/gifts of the Spirit. I literally can't stay silent when that happens.You guys are really mixed up. The only thing I have to speak against is when I hear someone telling another that if they haven't manifested the Spirit in a particular way (tongues), then they are not saved. And you can stop with the "she didn't say that" because to say that someone has not been born from above with the Spirit IS to say they are unsaved. So...yeah.
E
one baptism people. one. Not two. Not three, Not four.
One baptism (the apostle paul)
if anyone tells you there are two baptisms which saves (water and the HS) run far away from that person
if someone is telling you their church has proof, (evidence by tongues) run from that church. God said a wicked and aduterous generation seeks after signs, and he will not give it, the only sign he gave is the sign of Jonah (christ and his death burial and ressurection) if you can not accept that as a sign, then thats too bad.
One baptism (the apostle paul)
if anyone tells you there are two baptisms which saves (water and the HS) run far away from that person
if someone is telling you their church has proof, (evidence by tongues) run from that church. God said a wicked and aduterous generation seeks after signs, and he will not give it, the only sign he gave is the sign of Jonah (christ and his death burial and ressurection) if you can not accept that as a sign, then thats too bad.
Nor can I stay silent when those without the Holy Spirit muddy the waters
and preach another gospel.
Remember in our NT there was only one church and one gospel.
There were no Roman Catholics, nor Protestants, neither any Orthodox
faiths or denominations.
There was only one gospel preached and lived by the first church
and written out in our NT.
All were baptized by full immersion.
All were commanded to be baptized in the Holy Spirit and the proof of
such was given not only in scripture but Jesus himself declared what it
would be: they shall speak in new tongues.
Pentecost is the proof that this original Apostolic gospel is true and
valid, and still available for today.
and preach another gospel.
Remember in our NT there was only one church and one gospel.
There were no Roman Catholics, nor Protestants, neither any Orthodox
faiths or denominations.
There was only one gospel preached and lived by the first church
and written out in our NT.
All were baptized by full immersion.
All were commanded to be baptized in the Holy Spirit and the proof of
such was given not only in scripture but Jesus himself declared what it
would be: they shall speak in new tongues.
Pentecost is the proof that this original Apostolic gospel is true and
valid, and still available for today.
E
The NT church did not teach this, no matter what your pastors tell you (stop listening to men, and listen to God)
Yes they were all baptized in water, And yes they were all baptized in the spirit.
However, baptism of the spirit was not a command, it was an action taken by God the moment people placed their faith in him
Baptism in water was a command, given to those who had repented and were saved
Gifts of the spirit were not a result of being baptized by the spirit, but as a result of having the HS poured out on (anointed by) them.
you have the term baptize and anoint mixed up. and because of this, you have perverted the gospel of grace.
If your going to not be silent and be against those who teach another gospel. you need to yell at yourself.
Yes they were all baptized in water, And yes they were all baptized in the spirit.
However, baptism of the spirit was not a command, it was an action taken by God the moment people placed their faith in him
Baptism in water was a command, given to those who had repented and were saved
Gifts of the spirit were not a result of being baptized by the spirit, but as a result of having the HS poured out on (anointed by) them.
you have the term baptize and anoint mixed up. and because of this, you have perverted the gospel of grace.
If your going to not be silent and be against those who teach another gospel. you need to yell at yourself.
Once again, it doesn't bother or concern me in the least that you say I don't have Gods Spirit. I absolutely know I do. But when you say if one hasn't manifested a particular gift (tongues or healing or prophecy, etc.) then it means they can't possibly have the Spirit, I have to speak.
It's not preaching another gospel to say repent and be saved.
It IS preaching another gospel to say, speak in tongues and be saved.
It's not preaching another gospel to say repent and be saved.
It IS preaching another gospel to say, speak in tongues and be saved.
You are surely free to have your opinion, but I don't think I am.
I agree with you. I think it's common knowledge that the vast majority of Christians have never spoken in tongues. It does not mean they are not saved (they still have the light bulb, even though they never turn it on..)
Kelby is a male, and he did not say you were unsaved. His error is in thinking that the Holy Spirit is given after a person is saved.
I agree with you. I think it's common knowledge that the vast majority of Christians have never spoken in tongues. It does not mean they are not saved (they still have the light bulb, even though they never turn it on..)
And you can stop with the "she didn't say that" because to say that someone has not been born from above with the Spirit IS to say they are unsaved. So...yeah.