Not By Works

[NoNameMcgee]

I have been a glutton for punishment....

I am grateful to God for your longsuffering towards those who are in error.... also your love (wanting whats best for someone to the point of sacrifice) for those who continue to reject biblical truths

if i were to judge you by your fruit

maybe gentleness isnt your strong suit

but i see patience and longsuffering
i see joy and peace
i see a great temperance more often than not
i see goodness

and i see love

Gods been working mightily in you

and uses you to share the true gospel with whoever will lend you an ear


but im no judge
and fruit isnt what saves

....

just putting it out there

i see how often you are accused

and i know i also came against you before


i guess this is just a public character witness


God bless you bro

 

[joefizz]

Jesus was not talking about fake believers. He was talking about knowingly non-believers. Even fake believers, believe they believe in Jesus. Jesus was talking about those that knowingly don't believe in Jesus. Fake believers will get baptized, but those that knowingly reject Jesus will not.

Can't you fake a baptism of the spirit? Can't you believe you have had a baptism of the spirit, but you really didn't?

Actually in better words it's referring to "pretenders" no matter the circumstance,because if you think about it,the people mentioned will proclaim their works of faith and the difference is in if they "knew Jesus" as in instead of doing things in name only or willfully using Jesus's name for wrong reasons,the ones who proclaim unto Jesus their works will have not simply "known" Jesus's name or used his name for whatever reason but accepted him and thereby being able to actually "follow his orders and guidance",quite a difference.

 

[dcontroversal]

I am grateful to God for your longsuffering towards those who are in error.... also your love (wanting whats best for someone to the point of sacrifice) for those who continue to reject biblical truths

if i were to judge you by your fruit

maybe gentleness isnt your strong suit

but i see patience and longsuffering
i see joy and peace
i see a great temperance more often than not
i see goodness

and i see love

Gods been working mightily in you

and uses you to share the true gospel with whoever will lend you an ear


but im no judge
and fruit isnt what saves

....

just putting it out there

i see how often you are accused

and i know i also came against you before


i guess this is just a public character witness


God bless you bro

Thanks Bro....just a "work" in progress and always seeking the mercy and grace of God because I know I fail daily in some form or fashion......

 

[joefizz]

Well said, there is no universal church, it is pure fiction, no truth in this at all,
as you have clearly stated.

Yeah didn't the people of Babel attempt that rebelliously and God confounded their language?

 

[joefizz]

I am grateful to God for your longsuffering towards those who are in error.... also your love (wanting whats best for someone to the point of sacrifice) for those who continue to reject biblical truths

if i were to judge you by your fruit

maybe gentleness isnt your strong suit

but i see patience and longsuffering
i see joy and peace
i see a great temperance more often than not
i see goodness

and i see love

Gods been working mightily in you

and uses you to share the true gospel with whoever will lend you an ear


but im no judge
and fruit isnt what saves

....

just putting it out there

i see how often you are accused

and i know i also came against you before


i guess this is just a public character witness


God bless you bro

Yeah D reminds me of my cousin the Pastor,not willing to "sugar coat" the bible and tell it like it is with fierce determination!

 

[TruthTalk]

The World Wide Ecumenical Movement will lead a false church to come together as a "Universal Church" under the authority of the catholic church. There is more to this universal church than meets the eye, please be wary there are problems up ahead.

The Ecumenical Movement is alive and well among, Presbyterian's, Lutheran, and some liberal Baptist churches, be cautious and aware.

Quote: All about the universal church

The universal invisible church theory has A Detestable Origin.

This belief was first promulgated by Jovinian in the fourth century. After this, very little is heard of this dogma until the Reformation. When Martin Luther withdrew from the Catholic church and started his own church, he found himself in a dilemma. He had been teaching that there was only one church: now he had started another. So he invented the idea of a universal invisible church.

The other Reformers adopted Luther's neo-orthodoxy. Thus it can be seen that in the main this theory is a Protestant Pedobaptist concept of the church which was conceived by the Protestant Reformers to combat the equally erroneous view of a universal visible church.

Baptists, throughout their history, have always stood for a literal assembly of immersed believers. A study of their confessions of faith and their congregational life prove that they have courageously and persistently emphasized the church to be a local, visible body of baptized believers. This is their greatest contribution to Christian history in the field of Ecclesiology.

But it cannot be denied that some Baptists were influenced by Pedobaptists during the Reformation, and in consequence, many American Baptists never got back to the local church until the New Hampshire Confession in 1833. Within the past half-century there has come a resurgence of emphasis upon a universal invisible church. This theory is the very heart of the Ecumenical movement. The present Bapto-Catholic movement existing among some Baptists originated some years ago among liberal, supposed-to-be, Baptist scholars who tarried too long in Pedobaptist schools.

This doctrine of vanities Confuses The Church and Kingdom.

 

[Ariel82]

The very use of the word churches and the fact that it is inspired in the plural form negates one universal church on the planet.

The very nature of the church and it being a LOCAL, visible body of believers negates one universal church on the planet.

The bible is clear....each local, visible assembly is a autonomous body of believers with Jesus as the head, they are individual in number, characteristics, stance before Jesus yet all with equal power, right and authority before the throne of God. The individual church letters written to all of the churches represented in the New Testament also bears out this truth.

Peter compares EACH assembly unto an individual body with Christ as the head.

Having said that, there is ONE body of believers in heaven.

We are one body and United in One Spirit.

The Church encompasses not only those who are in Heaven but also all joined by the Holy spirit on Earth.

It's a spiritual nature and the Church are the Remnant that carry out God's will now...many body parts but all joined to the Head who is Christ Jesus.

You may view each church as a body, like each person's body is Called a Temple to God.

However I see each person as a single cell and each church as an tissue and each denomination an organ.
.God has a purpose and function for all who call upon His name.

Some become cancerous and have to be cut out. Some get viruses and must be burnt out.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If I interpret Peter the way you interpret Peter, then he does not contradict with Paul at all. Well you would be right about that, but it would be difficult to interpret the words of the Peter in any way other than the way I interpret Peter. Let's try:
In Acts 2, Peter was asked by men who believed what he said about Jesus, and they asked Peter what should they do. This is what Peter told them to do.
1) Repent
2) be baptized, every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins
3) and ye shall receive the gift of the HG

How do you teach this verse in your church Sunday School? Do you tell people that Peter was drunk and wasn't thinking clear? Because this is pretty straight forward wording, tough to misinterpret, unless you have a theology that does not agree.

Do you have a theology which disagrees with what Peter in the bible has told us? Doesn't your theology say that the gift of the HS is given first by God and then if you wish you can get baptized whenever? And why does one need to repent if the HS has washed over your body?

I can see where your theology would have major differences with what Peter said, but the act of interpreting what Peter said is not a problem, and is not difficult. So do you even teach this verse in your Sunday School classes, or do you go around it because it is rather embarrasing altogether to talk about it?

I knew a minister from New York that told me he would like to rip that scripture out of the bible because it caused so much confusion. Why so much confusion: because it disagreed with what he believed in. How bout that?

So my interpretation of Peter is the same as yours, but your theology is different than Peters and more like Pauls, that is the conflict, not me vs Paul, or Peter vs Paul, but your theology vs Peter, and vs Jesus for that matter, and even lots of Paul.

No, You do not interpret it the way I do

Peter told EVERYONE to repent, and they will receive the HS

He told those who received remission of sin to be baptized in the name of Jesus.

You need to look at how it was written, 3rd person, 2nd person, plural and singular. they all have meanings.

 

[Ariel82]

The World Wide Ecumenical Movement will lead a false church to come together as a "Universal Church" under the authority of the catholic church. There is more to this universal church than meets the eye, please be wary there are problems up ahead.

The Ecumenical Movement is alive and well among, Presbyterian's, Lutheran, and some liberal Baptist churches, be cautious and aware.

Quote: All about the universal church

The universal invisible church theory has A Detestable Origin.

This belief was first promulgated by Jovinian in the fourth century. After this, very little is heard of this dogma until the Reformation. When Martin Luther withdrew from the Catholic church and started his own church, he found himself in a dilemma. He had been teaching that there was only one church: now he had started another. So he invented the idea of a universal invisible church.

The other Reformers adopted Luther's neo-orthodoxy. Thus it can be seen that in the main this theory is a Protestant Pedobaptist concept of the church which was conceived by the Protestant Reformers to combat the equally erroneous view of a universal visible church.

Baptists, throughout their history, have always stood for a literal assembly of immersed believers. A study of their confessions of faith and their congregational life prove that they have courageously and persistently emphasized the church to be a local, visible body of baptized believers. This is their greatest contribution to Christian history in the field of Ecclesiology.

But it cannot be denied that some Baptists were influenced by Pedobaptists during the Reformation, and in consequence, many American Baptists never got back to the local church until the New Hampshire Confession in 1833. Within the past half-century there has come a resurgence of emphasis upon a universal invisible church. This theory is the very heart of the Ecumenical movement. The present Bapto-Catholic movement existing among some Baptists originated some years ago among liberal, supposed-to-be, Baptist scholars who tarried too long in Pedobaptist schools.

This doctrine of vanities Confuses The Church and Kingdom.

The ecumenical movement is the idea that you fudge differences so that we can "all just get along"

Just because folks use the same words doesnt mean they are referring to the same thing.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The very use of the word churches and the fact that it is inspired in the plural form negates one universal church on the planet.

The very nature of the church and it being a LOCAL, visible body of believers negates one universal church on the planet.

The bible is clear....each local, visible assembly is a autonomous body of believers with Jesus as the head, they are individual in number, characteristics, stance before Jesus yet all with equal power, right and authority before the throne of God. The individual church letters written to all of the churches represented in the New Testament also bears out this truth.

Peter compares EACH assembly unto an individual body with Christ as the head.

Having said that, there is ONE body of believers in heaven.

ok, You have me thinking my position again, How dare you! I am always right!! (just joking) lol

I always considered the "body" to the the universal church. But since the church is an ekklesia or gathering, I understand what your saying, there can only be a local church, or churches, there is not a global gathering and will not be until we are all resurrected.

iron sharpens... You have me thinking bro..

 

[Endoscopy]

The Bible also says "create in me a clean heart"

Yes the heart of man is wicked but I believe God is able to cleanse and that is part of salvation.

The problem is we still have the law of sin in us. Paul complained that because of it he still sinned even though he wanted to have his mind on God.

Romans 7 NIV

14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Jesus was not talking about fake believers. He was talking about knowingly non-believers. Even fake believers, believe they believe in Jesus. Jesus was talking about those that knowingly don't believe in Jesus. Fake believers will get baptized, but those that knowingly reject Jesus will not.

Can't you fake a baptism of the spirit? Can't you believe you have had a baptism of the spirit, but you really didn't?

My dead sister in law could not get baptized because she had a neurological disease that cause her to have to have a shunt in her head to drain the pressure off her brain,

According to you, She is in hell and must be a fake believer.

According to God she is in heaven, Because she had great faith and GOD baptized her, like he did the rest of us.

Maybe God did not baptize you, and thats why you can not seem to understand??

 

[NoNameMcgee]

The problem is we still have the law of sin in us. Paul complained that because of it he still sinned even though he wanted to have his mind on God.

Romans 8:2
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

 

[dcontroversal]

We are one body and United in One Spirit.

The Church encompasses not only those who are in Heaven but also all joined by the Holy spirit on Earth.

It's a spiritual nature and the Church are the Remnant that carry out God's will now...many body parts but all joined to the Head who is Christ Jesus.

You may view each church as a body, like each person's body is Called a Temple to God.

However I see each person as a single cell and each church as an tissue and each denomination an organ.
.God has a purpose and function for all who call upon His name.

Some become cancerous and have to be cut out. Some get viruses and must be burnt out.

Fair enough.....good thing with us....we agree on much and when we do disagree....we cite our case and still get along.....peace

 

[Endoscopy]

Romans 8:2
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Romans 7 NIV

14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.

Jesus frees us from the penalty of sin. The law is in place and do you claim that you are sin free?

 

[dcontroversal]

ok, You have me thinking my position again, How dare you! I am always right!! (just joking) lol

I always considered the "body" to the the universal church. But since the church is an ekklesia or gathering, I understand what your saying, there can only be a local church, or churches, there is not a global gathering and will not be until we are all resurrected.

iron sharpens... You have me thinking bro..

AMEN MIGO......we constantly give each other food for thought

 

[dcontroversal]

My dead sister in law could not get baptized because she had a neurological disease that cause her to have to have a shunt in her head to drain the pressure off her brain,

According to you, She is in hell and must be a fake believer.

According to God she is in heaven, Because she had great faith and GOD baptized her, like he did the rest of us.

Maybe God did not baptize you, and thats why you can not seem to understand??

AMEN............the bible is clear....It pleased God, by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

To all who add works, immersion, religion, hoops to jump through, sacraments, church affiliation etc. to faith for salvation is is FOOLISH and ERRONEOUS that GOD will save one that simply believes<----this is the simplicity that is found in Christ....It is a simple thing to just believe and acknowledge that belief....

How simple is it--->LORD, remember me when you come into your kingdom! (obviously while acknowledging your guilt as a sinner in need of God's mercy just as the thief did)

 

[TruthTalk]

We are one body and United in One Spirit.

Hi Ariel82, I respect you but I disagree that, "each person is a single cell and each church as a piece of tissue", not so. Christians are to mature, attaining to, "the Fullness of Christ" Ephesians4:13

However I see each person as a single cell and each church as an tissue and each denomination an organ.
.God has a purpose and function for all who call upon His name.

Colossians2:10; Spiritual Fullness in Christ
10) and in Christ you have been brought to fullness. He is the head over every power and authority.

Ephesians4:13
until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.

 

[VCO]

Did you not read what I said? I said we, yeah know Christians cannot earn their way to heaven. It's the gift of God, lest anyone should boast. BUT once someone SURRENDERS one's life to God, you leave the ranks of the world. It's very serious when someone enters into Fellowship with the ALMIGHTY.
We don't keep the law (the 10 COMMANDMENTS) in order to be saved, we KEEP THEM because Jesus saved us, so you understand? God's COMMANDMENTS are as binding for us today as they have been throughout the history of the world. The 10 COMMANDMENTS are actually a transcript of God's Character. I'm afraid we today are to WORLDLY, Jesus REBUKES the Laodacean church in the book, The Revelation of Jesus Christ. Jesus tells the last day church that they are LUKEWARM and that they say they have need of nothing, the churchmembers say in Revelation. That's the condition of the church now. In the epistles of John, God's Word says "do ye not know that friendship with the world is Enmity with God, therefore whosoever is a friend of the world is an ENEMY of God. John saying that we must separate from the world, when one accepts Jesus as Saviour but ALSO LORD of their life. And Lord means MASTER. Jesus clearly teaches this throughout scriptures, He tells people " Why do you call me LORD...LORD and NOT DO..... the things I tell you". And also Be tells us "IF........IF you love Me KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS" . IF is a conditional proposition, TRUE BIBLICAL CHRISTIANS, meet the condition, others dont. OBEDIENCE is TRUE LOVE to GOD.

See the "Reply With a Quote" at the bottom of the page. Hit that before you start to type, SO THAT WE KNOW WHAT POST YOU ARE REPLYING TO.

 

[Ariel82]

Colossians2:10; Spiritual Fullness in Christ
10) and in Christ you have been brought to fullness. He is the head over every power and authority.

Ephesians4:13
until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.

Yeah...not sure how that applies to my statement,,,,

Stem cells can become anything until they are mature and given a purpose. God gives us each a purpose and places us in a local church body or among other believers to accomplish His tasks for our lives upon this earth.

Do you understand how the human body works? It gives depth and insight to how God's spiritual Body works, for things seen point to unseen spiritual truths.