Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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In the early church elders were fighting heresies and living with the differences of opinion on what the Bible means on different issues. They created the Roman Creed in the 200s and updated it to the Apostles Creed in 390. This defined the minimum beliefs that a Christian MUST HAVE. They used it to fight Gnosticism which was almost taking over the early church. Gnosticism believed that God created Jesus and Jesus created another being who then created another one etc. One of the last ones created the universe. This is why the earth is flawed according to them instead of God cursing it.
All issues not mentioned in Creed are to be agree to disagree. Thus we have all of the different Christian denominations that still preach the gospel message.
Interesting logic, except all translations do not use the word 'disciples'. Some just say, go and 'teach all nations'.
Did you notice this scripture pretty much oozes of 'good works'? How could that be? These people, who were disciples were already boasting of being baptized, and observing the commandments of Jesus. They were also losing their focus on the cross and taking glory away from Jesus. Remember you said that I boasted just bacause I 'climbed' into the baptistry and took away the glory of Jesus for doing these good works. You must hate to read good works scriptures, especially when Jesus tells us to do good works, (and BTW, Jesus did not use the word, 'grace' once).
After saying that, I know we need to keep our eye on the cross, and believe Jesus, and trust in him and his grace, but to ignore the accompanying works that go along with belief, and love, and faith, is not the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Besides, just because you are a disciple, doesn't necessarily mean you are 'saved'. I believe that a person is taught the gospel and then according to Mark 16:16, and Acts 2:38, if they believe and are baptized they 'shall be saved'
'Shall be saved' does not mean they are 'automatically, and immediately saved' then OSAS.
The saving process is a lifelong process of believing in Jesus and observing the things that he has commanded us to observe, and enduring to the end.
And finally when you are resurrected in your perfect body of flesh and bone and spirit, you will come to know that you are saved or not. No automatic pass to eternal life.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
Who said anything was automatic? If it was automatic God would just save everyone, it is his will.
Face it dude, the penalty of sin is death, The gift of God is life.
You do not work to earn a gift, it is freely given, paid for by the giver.
But he will not just give it to anyone, He told adam, If you eat of this tree, you will die, Adam had to chose to say yes or no. He tells us now. I came to offer you forgiveness, We have to say yes or no.
No amount of works will cause God to forgive one sin. If you think your goodness will cause God to overlook your sins, You are in serious denial of the truth.
Good luck trying to earn the gift of eternal life. Good luck having faith in self over faith in God.
Only the symbolism of a water baptism allows you to say that I was baptized into the death and burial of Jesus Christ. You did not fulfill Mark 16 without touching the water. The water baptism is a perfect symbol of being layed down in a watery grave and being raised again out of that grave and being born again, a new person unto Christ.
The baptism of the spirit is a different event with no death and burial and symbolism.
Are you telling me I haven't lived a sinless life? ROFL
We have all sined and fallen short of the glory of God.
The wages of sin is death.
Sin is transgression of the law that Jesus stated is in effect until heaven and earth disappear.
Therefore we are condemned to death.
We thank God for the sacrifice of Jesus so we can be saved by grace through faith in Jesus.
Accepting Jesus as our savior removes the penalty of the law.
Those who reject Jesus will face judgement under the law.
What pride and expectation do you see in my words? Of course good works is done out of love and gratitude, and unto good works created in Christ Jesus. It is all you said it is. This can be done and still keep your eye on the cross. In fact in doing good works out of love and gratitude, it help you keep focused on the cross and the love Jesus has for you. It all works together for the saving of a soul.
If you come to the throne of Jesus and you say, I kept my eye on the cross, and was never found doing good works because I feared that I would boast and lose sight of the cross, I believe Jesus will say, I never knew you. And you would say, wait a minute, I never took my eye off the cross, and Jesus will say, did you minister unto those that are sick, and hungry, and naked, and in prison? What will you say?
This is a fictitious story, no Christian would ever say; "and was never found doing good work." Only in your fruitful imagination will that ever happen.
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Ariel82
Guest
The Bible defines the fruit of the spirit as love,joy, peace,parience, goodness and self control....
Those do not happen because of your words or actions but are characteristics of a person's being from walking with the Holy spirit,...
What exactly are you disagreeing about?
You judge by the fruit not the works.
It crossed my mind that this is exactly what God was telling Adam and Eve when they tried to hide their nakedness with fig leaves.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
yeah yeah whatever dude, continue to blaspheme the HS by attributing his work to some man who immersed (baptised) you in water and see where it gets you on jugment day
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
i was not water batised to save myself, nor did my indwelling and seal of the spirit occured then, it was when i showed the world what God himself did to me a year earlier,
Jesus said that you judge by their fruits. This means outward observence. Words can have multiple meanings. Part of the English language.
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NoNameMcgee
Guest
yup
and had you been born again and not water baptized you would have still been saved
being born of water (flesh) already
and of the spirit after having a genuine faith in Jesus as your savior
When different translations say something differently I go to the AMPC be cause it lists the different meanings of the original language word.
Yep True Gospel. Also I like your AVATAR, we absolutely need God's Grace to get where we are going.
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NoNameMcgee
Guest
you were way off when you said
"Fruits are the result of words and action."
good fruits are a result of God working in His children
these fruits being in His children will manifest themself before men through words and actions
a brother/sister in Christ helping an elderly with their groceries is not a fruit
it is an action/work/deed
the fruit would be love (what God has worked in His child through His spirit and the new heart He gave to His child)
the action would be helping the elderly
neither of these save
keep saved
or prove anything to God who already knows who is His and who is not
this same brother/sister before being saved may have had 0 good works
then after he was saved
he didnt need to help that elderly with their groceries to remain saved
God is already aware who has and does not have a genuine faith
but He chastens His own
He encourages them too
and
builds them up unto good works
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NoNameMcgee
Guest
thank you brother
i found it looking for a specific image
and figured it was better than what i had in mind
I disagree about using the heart. The bible in Jeramiah states:
Jerimiah 17 NIV
9 The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure.
Who can understand it?