Not By Works

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A

Ariel82

Guest
It is not the creed, but when one elevates it above the bible as the rule of faith and practice which he does.....and I do not believe in the universal church....on the earth churches<---PLURAL and each it's own individual body of believers with equal power, right, authority and scope before God....ONE body of believers in HEAVEN
I believe God calls out people from every nation and every religion to form His Body here on earth and our spirits are joined as one in earth and in Heaven.

So I do believe in the church universal and that we are His hands and feet here on Earth....but it's off topic and we can discuss it all in another thread at another time.

Just wondering about the whole creed thing.

I have issues when people elevate their understanding of the Bible over God and His Holy spirit. Yes we can use the Bible to test the Spirit but they is why God tells us of the fruit.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
Then why did Jesus say that by their fruits you will know them.
As I said before there is a difference between fruit and works.

Matthew 7
15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

****

You test the words of false prophets by what their words do to your heart.

Does it you more prideful or more humble?

Does it cause you to judge others hypocritically or to have compassion and forgiveness?

Does it give you peace or cause you to fear?

Does their words inspire love or cause more hate and strife?

Do their words bring joy or pain and despair?

Are their words gentle or do you feel steamrolled?

Are you inspired to live a more godly life or do you just want to give up or believe it doesn't really matter?

****

Note there is a difference between what some people say and what others hear, but over all people who speak as Oracle's of God, speak with heavenly wisdom as described In James 3...not demonic wisdom described in the same chapter.

****

The next question: are all God's people called to be prophets and speak as His oracles?
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
Brother did you say that the Lord...failed us? The problem is with us,we fail to "Yield" our everyday choices to Christ. So He may transform us, by His Spirit from glory to glory. We MUST surrender our lives to God, the one's who do this have ALWAYS been God's people. They have the Living God living in them, prompting them what's best for them. Jesus is Coming Soon and He's coming for His people, a people without spot or wrinkle. A mere "profession of faith" will NOT result in eternity, many pastors/people believe/teach this, a " once saved always saved " teaching. But this is not what the Word of God teaches. Jesus warned us in Matthew 24 saying "let NO ONE DECEIVE you by any means. I pray that we read for ourselves what the God of the universe has to say to us, individually and to not leave our eternity in the hands of anyone other than our Loving Saviour and Creator Jesus to the glory of God the Father, may Be richly bless you on your walk with Him
Jim
Who is this directed too?

As far as I know, no one teaches a "simple profession of faith".

Everyone has stated that unless the heart believes,the words are not enough.


The topic is faith enough or must you add works to earn your salvation. Is adoption and eternal life a gift or a reward?

It's the differences between the Gospel of agape love in Christ Jesus and the worldly love all other religions teach and preach.
 

Jim0426

Junior Member
May 21, 2018
19
0
1
Did you not read what I said? I said we, yeah know Christians cannot earn their way to heaven. It's the gift of God, lest anyone should boast. BUT once someone SURRENDERS one's life to God, you leave the ranks of the world. It's very serious when someone enters into Fellowship with the ALMIGHTY.
We don't keep the law (the 10 COMMANDMENTS) in order to be saved, we KEEP THEM because Jesus saved us, so you understand? God's COMMANDMENTS are as binding for us today as they have been throughout the history of the world. The 10 COMMANDMENTS are actually a transcript of God's Character. I'm afraid we today are to WORLDLY, Jesus REBUKES the Laodacean church in the book, The Revelation of Jesus Christ. Jesus tells the last day church that they are LUKEWARM and that they say they have need of nothing, the churchmembers say in Revelation. That's the condition of the church now. In the epistles of John, God's Word says "do ye not know that friendship with the world is Enmity with God, therefore whosoever is a friend of the world is an ENEMY of God. John saying that we must separate from the world, when one accepts Jesus as Saviour but ALSO LORD of their life. And Lord means MASTER. Jesus clearly teaches this throughout scriptures, He tells people " Why do you call me LORD...LORD and NOT DO..... the things I tell you". And also Be tells us "IF........IF you love Me KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS" . IF is a conditional proposition, TRUE BIBLICAL CHRISTIANS, meet the condition, others dont. OBEDIENCE is TRUE LOVE to GOD.
 

Jim0426

Junior Member
May 21, 2018
19
0
1
The WORD of GOD is......the CHRISTIANS WHOLE LIFE. It isn't one's feelings or superficiality. False teachers are KNOWN by the words/doctrines that spew from their lips. What I'm going to say IS TRUE, the WORD of GOD INTERPRETS itself. "Line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little there a little". You lock and A subject out to study in the BIBLE, then you get a CONCORDEANCE. Look up every verse from the Old and New Testaments on......ah..say your studying and you want to know every verse from GOD'S WORD on SIN. Line all the scriptures up on "what win is" and they ALL AGREE with one another and that's an AWESOME FACT, on how PERFECT HIS WORD IS.
God bless
Jim
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
121
63
This is what happens when you isolate one half of one verse, ignore the second half of the verse and also ignore what Jesus said in John 3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26 -- Are these verses simple and sweet as well?

Again, those who believe and are baptized will be saved (general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized) but he who does not believe will be condemned.

What about those who believe, but are unable to receive water baptism before they die, like the thief on the cross? Will they be saved? At what point do you believe someone is saved? The moment they believe or not until later, after they receive water baptism?
Talk about ignoring part of the verse. You bend over backwards to make your point about one who is damned, and completely miss what needs to be done to be saved. That is because you do not believe that you have to believe and be baptized in order to be saved. So you concentrate on the damned part of the verse and ignore the saved part of the verse.

Seriously, don't lecture me on ignoring the whole verse, until you acknowledge that Jesus said you have to believe and be baptized in order to be saved.
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,262
113
You know come to think of it....I have only heard him reference James 2 and "THE CREED" Kind of like a good Catholic referencing the POPE or the Catholic Catechism............

He emphatically states that works are required for salvation even though the bible states....

"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy has he saved us" (PAST TENSE)

or

"Therefore, we conclude a man is justified by FAITH, without the works/deeds of the law"

or

"In the grace we are, having been saved out of faith (past tense) and that not of ourselves, it is the GIFT of GOD and NOT OF WORKS lest any man should boast."

or

"It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe."

WORKS or GRACE.....NOT BOTH....ONE or the OTHER!
Biblical Scholars will tell you, you cannot make a doctrine of the church with just one verse. Endoscopy will ignore Biblical Scholars and push his fake doctrine of works plus grace. From Genesis to Revelations the Bible state that we are saved by grace alone, as was our Father Abraham. Endoscopy is walking north on an ice sheet that is floating south.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,458
13,397
113
58
Talk about ignoring part of the verse. You bend over backwards to make your point about one who is damned, and completely miss what needs to be done to be saved. That is because you do not believe that you have to believe and be baptized in order to be saved. So you concentrate on the damned part of the verse and ignore the saved part of the verse.

Seriously, don't lecture me on ignoring the whole verse, until you acknowledge that Jesus said you have to believe and be baptized in order to be saved.
I did not ignore what Jesus said in the WHOLE verse or what He said in John 3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26 and I harmonized Scripture with Scripture in order to reach the proper conclusion on doctrine. Jesus NEVER said whoever is NOT water baptized will be condemned. You only concentrate on one half of one verse and ignore the rest.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
400
83
As I said before there is a difference between fruit and works.

Matthew 7
15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

****

You test the words of false prophets by what their words do to your heart.

Does it you more prideful or more humble?

Does it cause you to judge others hypocritically or to have compassion and forgiveness?

Does it give you peace or cause you to fear?

Does their words inspire love or cause more hate and strife?

Do their words bring joy or pain and despair?

Are their words gentle or do you feel steamrolled?

Are you inspired to live a more godly life or do you just want to give up or believe it doesn't really matter?

****

Note there is a difference between what some people say and what others hear, but over all people who speak as Oracle's of God, speak with heavenly wisdom as described In James 3...not demonic wisdom described in the same chapter.

****

The next question: are all God's people called to be prophets and speak as His oracles?
I disagree. Fruits are the result of words and action. Those are works. Works produce results. These are how to tell what a person is. Both the works and the results of the works. You can observe both to determine what a person is. Watching what a person says and does as well as the results.

Works - what does the person do or say
Fruits - what happened because of the works

1 Corinthians 13 is the love chapter and is sandwiched between the two chapters discussing spiritual gifts. It teaches each is given different gifts to benefit the church. Not everybody getting all gifts.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
42,550
17,022
113
69
Tennessee
Did you not read what I said? I said we, yeah know Christians cannot earn their way to heaven. It's the gift of God, lest anyone should boast. BUT once someone SURRENDERS one's life to God, you leave the ranks of the world. It's very serious when someone enters into Fellowship with the ALMIGHTY.
We don't keep the law (the 10 COMMANDMENTS) in order to be saved, we KEEP THEM because Jesus saved us, so you understand? God's COMMANDMENTS are as binding for us today as they have been throughout the history of the world. The 10 COMMANDMENTS are actually a transcript of God's Character. I'm afraid we today are to WORLDLY, Jesus REBUKES the Laodacean church in the book, The Revelation of Jesus Christ. Jesus tells the last day church that they are LUKEWARM and that they say they have need of nothing, the churchmembers say in Revelation. That's the condition of the church now. In the epistles of John, God's Word says "do ye not know that friendship with the world is Enmity with God, therefore whosoever is a friend of the world is an ENEMY of God. John saying that we must separate from the world, when one accepts Jesus as Saviour but ALSO LORD of their life. And Lord means MASTER. Jesus clearly teaches this throughout scriptures, He tells people " Why do you call me LORD...LORD and NOT DO..... the things I tell you". And also Be tells us "IF........IF you love Me KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS" . IF is a conditional proposition, TRUE BIBLICAL CHRISTIANS, meet the condition, others dont. OBEDIENCE is TRUE LOVE to GOD.
If you click on Reply With Quote that member's post will be included in your own and will make it more clear on who you are responding to. Before writing your post skip down at least one line otherwise a part of [/Quote] may be inadvertently removed and the post will appear scrambled. When finish click on Post Quick Reply and the members quote will be included in your posts.

Glad to have you onboard with us and looking forward to your future posts on this and in other topics and forums as well. Welcome to CC.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
400
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wrong again.....who cares what some creed said written in 200 or 390.....serious....your religion is really shining through....prove the bible is not the only rule of faith and practice....the truth is...you cannot, because that view is satanic to the core....to put and or promote uninspired men and some creed written 200 to 400 years after the bible over the inspired word of God reeks of pure ignorance...
Talk about ignorance. I defy you to point out where I said the creeds were above the Bible!!! Solo scriptorum!!!

What I kept saying is statements of doctrine are created from what is stated in the Bible in various places in order to make a coherent view of the topic. I pointed outbout the Heidelberg Catechism as an example. Reading it an issue is stated with references to the verses in the Bible where the concept comes from. Then there are the systematic theology books which are an exhaustive issue by issue study of what the Bible states again this time referencing every verse related to the issue. Solo scriptorum!!!!

I asked you before to state where the creeds were in error and don't remember getting an answer!!!
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Talk about ignoring part of the verse. You bend over backwards to make your point about one who is damned, and completely miss what needs to be done to be saved. That is because you do not believe that you have to believe and be baptized in order to be saved. So you concentrate on the damned part of the verse and ignore the saved part of the verse.

Seriously, don't lecture me on ignoring the whole verse, until you acknowledge that Jesus said you have to believe and be baptized in order to be saved.

The issue here is you think that baptism is water, its not. It is spirit baptism. It is done (by the hand of God I may add) the moment you are saved, You are baptized into Christ, Baptized into his death and burial, And baptized into his body.

No water is involved, period.

You do nothing to save yourself.

Jesus did the dying - (cross)
Holy spirit does the conviction and teaching (gospel)
God supplies the things required to show us he is real, and our need for him (nature - romans 1) and the word (torah) so that there is no excuse

we take these and other works of God, and must then make a choice to repent and have faith, which will lead us to become born again, or continue in our sin and die.

Again, No water is involved.


 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Biblical Scholars will tell you, you cannot make a doctrine of the church with just one verse. Endoscopy will ignore Biblical Scholars and push his fake doctrine of works plus grace. From Genesis to Revelations the Bible state that we are saved by grace alone, as was our Father Abraham. Endoscopy is walking north on an ice sheet that is floating south.
I am honestly wondering why anyone is responding to him anymore, It has been peaceful since i added hi to my "prayer list"
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
42,550
17,022
113
69
Tennessee
Talk about ignorance. I defy you to point out where I said the creeds were above the Bible!!! Solo scriptorum!!!

What I kept saying is statements of doctrine are created from what is stated in the Bible in various places in order to make a coherent view of the topic. I pointed outbout the Heidelberg Catechism as an example. Reading it an issue is stated with references to the verses in the Bible where the concept comes from. Then there are the systematic theology books which are an exhaustive issue by issue study of what the Bible states again this time referencing every verse related to the issue. Solo scriptorum!!!!

I asked you before to state where the creeds were in error and don't remember getting an answer!!!
I am in agreement with you on this particular perception.
 
May 20, 2018
225
117
43
Ohio
I must add what I believe to be the truth concerning the matters of works, faith, and salvation. First, I would like to mention that I am a worldly individual with countless character defects and shortcomings. I fall short in obedience more than not. I also know that I have been imputed with the Holy Spirit because I am absolutely unable to deny Christ in my heart and not love God to the best of my fallible ability. I can only speak on what I know through my personal testimony, and what the Holy Spirit has revealed to me. What I am about to say my entire being screams it to be true through the revelation of the Holy Spirit. I was not seeking God or his righteousness, but merely truly doubted my unbelief while listening to the testimony of what society would likely label a "junkie/whore". At that precise moment of doubt God gave me a Spiritual experience that I can not describe with proper justice. All of my five senses ceased to be, along with any thought process or heartfelt emotion. I (if you could call it me) was in a realm where "I" became part of this love that was so pure, powerful, and angelic. I "felt" (for lack of proper vocabulary) so complete and whole like nothing can parallel as an example. Space and time, along with everything else ceased to exist. There was only this powerful and pure love in which I became. When my senses returned I assumed by the conversation she was having that it lasted anywhere from 20-40 seconds earth time. An my sense of reality came to I looked at her looking and talking to me and noticed she was clueless this amazing thing had happened to me. The first rational thought to enter my mind was "I gotta have this chick! She does something to me." (For we had just met and she was very beautiful and attractive. It was between 4:30 and 5 am outside a hotel room near downtown Salt lake city. I was travelling with a couple people I got to know and one of them was Dave. My senior of about 20 years. I woke the next morning by Dave coming through the hotel door. The very first thought to enter my mind was the peculiar incident that occurred hours before. At that very moment it was manifested within me to know it was of God. I felt as though I had been "washed clean" of all the wrongs I had done to my loved ones. I felt like everything I had ever done had simply dissipated into nothing. I instantaneously was filled with a joy that, once again, I am unable to give it justice through explanation. Tears were streaming down my face and I was hyperventilating as I told Dave between gasps of the incident. Now I had always despised the teachings of God and all that Christ junk my whole life. I am 7 month from 30 yrs old. I don't remember dressing or anything else Dave and I may have mentioned, but I do recall him frantically reaching for the complimentary bible in the dresser drawer. "I blurted I'm between sins that I didn't ask God into my life or anything" (for from that instant on I was incapable of denying that there was a God) "You don't choose God, He chooses you!" He blurted while frantically searching for scripture. We were very close to downtown and it was lunch hour. I dont tecall the short walk but I do renember grabbing arms and spinning people around and grabbing and hanging on the fronts of jackets still bawling in this extreme joy. " THERE'S A GOD!! THERE'S A GOD!! I'VE BEEN MISSING THIS FOR 30 YEARS, THERE'S A GOD!!!!! I had no clue at the time that I had just been given the Holy Spirit. I don't remember nothing else of the day except making the comment to Dave in the bar that I was going to try to quit cussing because I don't think God likes cussing.
R
The spontaneous travelling, drug addiction, toxic relationships, and all other manner of filth continued to lead my life by a nose ring. The only thing that changed was the fact that I was completely incapable of denying the existence of God. 6/1-2 years later I had returned to Pennysylva prison to for violating my parole to finish the 2-1/2 years left on the 5. When I had got there I had to get things in order and that consisted of needing writing material and envelopes. I approached a man who's zeal and demeanor drew my to him. I introduced myself and commented on his joyous countenance. "It's the Lord in me!" He proudly stated. I asked him for the necessities, and he said he would not give a couple sheets of paper, a pen and an envelope but he would give me a pen a pad of paper I'd I promised to read one chapter from the book of John for one week. I quickly said I don't have a Bible as I tried to get out of it. (I had picked the Bible up dozens of times in my life to seek for comfort, answers, etc., and by the time I read two or three lines it would anger me and I would throw from me what I believed to be the worst and most worthless book in existence.) He quickly reached into his locker and produced a KJV Bible that I could keep! I went back to my bunk wrote a letter and fell asleep. The next morning when I woke he was already up with the Bible. Though I was regretting it, I was going to keep my word. I reached for the Bible and found John. I began reading, and by the 10th verse or so I became exhilarated inside as my eyes of understanding were instantaneously opened to understand it! Literally, for about 10 months and every bit of 18-20 hrs a day I read and studied using a Strings concordance. I was literally unable to put it down without desperation to pick it right back up. Since then I am compelled to study or read almost daily, it is my sustenance, it is my direction, it is the living word of God in my hands. I have between 10-15,000 thousands of hours buried in it in search of and to confirm what has been revealed to me by the Holy Spirit. I have kept from commentary, I have only used a reference Bible to compare scripture with scripture. What I KNOW to be the TRUTH in the Bible is the Pauline doctrine of saved by grace and justified by faith.
The ground rules pertaining to that doctrine is that everything and anything that pertains to salvation is solely the will and work of God. You can not loose your salvation if you truly are imputed with the Holy Spirit. Your works are debt, and your Faith in the truth justifies your salvation. Everything needed to get to heaven is supplied by God. God is sovereign, just, and wholly righteous in everything he has done, is doing, and will do. We exist and all are abundantly blessed (even the unbelievers) because of only him. He is are maker, and we are mere clay vessels. He has the right to pick and choose if he wants, and he does. He did not send Christ as an example but a savior for His.
It is clear throughout the old and new testament that he will choose as he wills, and it will be so. In exodist I believe, he tells Israel he chose them, and left the entire world out of his saving grace, and that was after he killed all but 8 souls on the planet. Anyhow, the bottom line for me is that if my eternal destination of my spirit is left in my hands in the slightest way, then there is no good news, because I have a tendency to mess earthly circumstances up, let alone spiritually things I can't begin to understand let alone get right. As humbly as I can say it, I am chosen, and the proof is abundant. I know that the idea we have no choice in the matter is a heated debate, but I'm leaning toward the thought that most of the heat comes from those who are unable to come to the knowledge of the truth. I don't need to defend the truth, it defends me. There is a short version of my testimony and doctrinal beliefs. For obvious reasons, much of the working will of God and his persistent love and grace were excluded. Do give me for it will NEVER be about me. I love everyone of you with a love that has been given to me to give away. That to me is the biggest factor of the Spirit within me...I used to hate everyone. Peace my brothers and sisters. Rest in the truth, you have the creator of all things wielding from himself the most powerful entity to exist (love) to make sure you make it home safe. Rest in the Good news for God's sake. :) Love you all...God bless!
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
400
83

The issue here is you think that baptism is water, its not. It is spirit baptism. It is done (by the hand of God I may add) the moment you are saved, You are baptized into Christ, Baptized into his death and burial, And baptized into his body.

No water is involved, period.

You do nothing to save yourself.

Jesus did the dying - (cross)
Holy spirit does the conviction and teaching (gospel)
God supplies the things required to show us he is real, and our need for him (nature - romans 1) and the word (torah) so that there is no excuse

we take these and other works of God, and must then make a choice to repent and have faith, which will lead us to become born again, or continue in our sin and die.

Again, No water is involved.


You ignore the Great Commission.

Matthew 28 NIV
The Great Commission
16 Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
12,284
6,656
113
Can't we all just get along....:)
I wish. but, when some insist on chopping the Bible into pieces and building theology around the pieces, i.m afraid that the disagreement will continue.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
400
83
I must add what I believe to be the truth concerning the matters of works, faith, and salvation. First, I would like to mention that I am a worldly individual with countless character defects and shortcomings. I fall short in obedience more than not. I also know that I have been imputed with the Holy Spirit because I am absolutely unable to deny Christ in my heart and not love God to the best of my fallible ability. I can only speak on what I know through my personal testimony, and what the Holy Spirit has revealed to me. What I am about to say my entire being screams it to be true through the revelation of the Holy Spirit. I was not seeking God or his righteousness, but merely truly doubted my unbelief while listening to the testimony of what society would likely label a "junkie/whore". At that precise moment of doubt God gave me a Spiritual experience that I can not describe with proper justice. All of my five senses ceased to be, along with any thought process or heartfelt emotion. I (if you could call it me) was in a realm where "I" became part of this love that was so pure, powerful, and angelic. I "felt" (for lack of proper vocabulary) so complete and whole like nothing can parallel as an example. Space and time, along with everything else ceased to exist. There was only this powerful and pure love in which I became. When my senses returned I assumed by the conversation she was having that it lasted anywhere from 20-40 seconds earth time. An my sense of reality came to I looked at her looking and talking to me and noticed she was clueless this amazing thing had happened to me. The first rational thought to enter my mind was "I gotta have this chick! She does something to me." (For we had just met and she was very beautiful and attractive. It was between 4:30 and 5 am outside a hotel room near downtown Salt lake city. I was travelling with a couple people I got to know and one of them was Dave. My senior of about 20 years. I woke the next morning by Dave coming through the hotel door. The very first thought to enter my mind was the peculiar incident that occurred hours before. At that very moment it was manifested within me to know it was of God. I felt as though I had been "washed clean" of all the wrongs I had done to my loved ones. I felt like everything I had ever done had simply dissipated into nothing. I instantaneously was filled with a joy that, once again, I am unable to give it justice through explanation. Tears were streaming down my face and I was hyperventilating as I told Dave between gasps of the incident. Now I had always despised the teachings of God and all that Christ junk my whole life. I am 7 month from 30 yrs old. I don't remember dressing or anything else Dave and I may have mentioned, but I do recall him frantically reaching for the complimentary bible in the dresser drawer. "I blurted I'm between sins that I didn't ask God into my life or anything" (for from that instant on I was incapable of denying that there was a God) "You don't choose God, He chooses you!" He blurted while frantically searching for scripture. We were very close to downtown and it was lunch hour. I dont tecall the short walk but I do renember grabbing arms and spinning people around and grabbing and hanging on the fronts of jackets still bawling in this extreme joy. " THERE'S A GOD!! THERE'S A GOD!! I'VE BEEN MISSING THIS FOR 30 YEARS, THERE'S A GOD!!!!! I had no clue at the time that I had just been given the Holy Spirit. I don't remember nothing else of the day except making the comment to Dave in the bar that I was going to try to quit cussing because I don't think God likes cussing.
R
The spontaneous travelling, drug addiction, toxic relationships, and all other manner of filth continued to lead my life by a nose ring. The only thing that changed was the fact that I was completely incapable of denying the existence of God. 6/1-2 years later I had returned to Pennysylva prison to for violating my parole to finish the 2-1/2 years left on the 5. When I had got there I had to get things in order and that consisted of needing writing material and envelopes. I approached a man who's zeal and demeanor drew my to him. I introduced myself and commented on his joyous countenance. "It's the Lord in me!" He proudly stated. I asked him for the necessities, and he said he would not give a couple sheets of paper, a pen and an envelope but he would give me a pen a pad of paper I'd I promised to read one chapter from the book of John for one week. I quickly said I don't have a Bible as I tried to get out of it. (I had picked the Bible up dozens of times in my life to seek for comfort, answers, etc., and by the time I read two or three lines it would anger me and I would throw from me what I believed to be the worst and most worthless book in existence.) He quickly reached into his locker and produced a KJV Bible that I could keep! I went back to my bunk wrote a letter and fell asleep. The next morning when I woke he was already up with the Bible. Though I was regretting it, I was going to keep my word. I reached for the Bible and found John. I began reading, and by the 10th verse or so I became exhilarated inside as my eyes of understanding were instantaneously opened to understand it! Literally, for about 10 months and every bit of 18-20 hrs a day I read and studied using a Strings concordance. I was literally unable to put it down without desperation to pick it right back up. Since then I am compelled to study or read almost daily, it is my sustenance, it is my direction, it is the living word of God in my hands. I have between 10-15,000 thousands of hours buried in it in search of and to confirm what has been revealed to me by the Holy Spirit. I have kept from commentary, I have only used a reference Bible to compare scripture with scripture. What I KNOW to be the TRUTH in the Bible is the Pauline doctrine of saved by grace and justified by faith.
The ground rules pertaining to that doctrine is that everything and anything that pertains to salvation is solely the will and work of God. You can not loose your salvation if you truly are imputed with the Holy Spirit. Your works are debt, and your Faith in the truth justifies your salvation. Everything needed to get to heaven is supplied by God. God is sovereign, just, and wholly righteous in everything he has done, is doing, and will do. We exist and all are abundantly blessed (even the unbelievers) because of only him. He is are maker, and we are mere clay vessels. He has the right to pick and choose if he wants, and he does. He did not send Christ as an example but a savior for His.
It is clear throughout the old and new testament that he will choose as he wills, and it will be so. In exodist I believe, he tells Israel he chose them, and left the entire world out of his saving grace, and that was after he killed all but 8 souls on the planet. Anyhow, the bottom line for me is that if my eternal destination of my spirit is left in my hands in the slightest way, then there is no good news, because I have a tendency to mess earthly circumstances up, let alone spiritually things I can't begin to understand let alone get right. As humbly as I can say it, I am chosen, and the proof is abundant. I know that the idea we have no choice in the matter is a heated debate, but I'm leaning toward the thought that most of the heat comes from those who are unable to come to the knowledge of the truth. I don't need to defend the truth, it defends me. There is a short version of my testimony and doctrinal beliefs. For obvious reasons, much of the working will of God and his persistent love and grace were excluded. Do give me for it will NEVER be about me. I love everyone of you with a love that has been given to me to give away. That to me is the biggest factor of the Spirit within me...I used to hate everyone. Peace my brothers and sisters. Rest in the truth, you have the creator of all things wielding from himself the most powerful entity to exist (love) to make sure you make it home safe. Rest in the Good news for God's sake. :) Love you all...God bless!
Here is Paul saying what you say.

Romans 7 NIV

14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
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I must add what I believe to be the truth concerning the matters of works, faith, and salvation. First, I would like to mention that I am a worldly individual with countless character defects and shortcomings. I fall short in obedience more than not. I also know that I have been imputed with the Holy Spirit because I am absolutely unable to deny Christ in my heart and not love God to the best of my fallible ability. I can only speak on what I know through my personal testimony, and what the Holy Spirit has revealed to me. What I am about to say my entire being screams it to be true through the revelation of the Holy Spirit. I was not seeking God or his righteousness, but merely truly doubted my unbelief while listening to the testimony of what society would likely label a "junkie/whore". At that precise moment of doubt God gave me a Spiritual experience that I can not describe with proper justice. All of my five senses ceased to be, along with any thought process or heartfelt emotion. I (if you could call it me) was in a realm where "I" became part of this love that was so pure, powerful, and angelic. I "felt" (for lack of proper vocabulary) so complete and whole like nothing can parallel as an example. Space and time, along with everything else ceased to exist. There was only this powerful and pure love in which I became. When my senses returned I assumed by the conversation she was having that it lasted anywhere from 20-40 seconds earth time. An my sense of reality came to I looked at her looking and talking to me and noticed she was clueless this amazing thing had happened to me. The first rational thought to enter my mind was "I gotta have this chick! She does something to me." (For we had just met and she was very beautiful and attractive. It was between 4:30 and 5 am outside a hotel room near downtown Salt lake city. I was travelling with a couple people I got to know and one of them was Dave. My senior of about 20 years. I woke the next morning by Dave coming through the hotel door. The very first thought to enter my mind was the peculiar incident that occurred hours before. At that very moment it was manifested within me to know it was of God. I felt as though I had been "washed clean" of all the wrongs I had done to my loved ones. I felt like everything I had ever done had simply dissipated into nothing. I instantaneously was filled with a joy that, once again, I am unable to give it justice through explanation. Tears were streaming down my face and I was hyperventilating as I told Dave between gasps of the incident. Now I had always despised the teachings of God and all that Christ junk my whole life. I am 7 month from 30 yrs old. I don't remember dressing or anything else Dave and I may have mentioned, but I do recall him frantically reaching for the complimentary bible in the dresser drawer. "I blurted I'm between sins that I didn't ask God into my life or anything" (for from that instant on I was incapable of denying that there was a God) "You don't choose God, He chooses you!" He blurted while frantically searching for scripture. We were very close to downtown and it was lunch hour. I dont tecall the short walk but I do renember grabbing arms and spinning people around and grabbing and hanging on the fronts of jackets still bawling in this extreme joy. " THERE'S A GOD!! THERE'S A GOD!! I'VE BEEN MISSING THIS FOR 30 YEARS, THERE'S A GOD!!!!! I had no clue at the time that I had just been given the Holy Spirit. I don't remember nothing else of the day except making the comment to Dave in the bar that I was going to try to quit cussing because I don't think God likes cussing.
R
The spontaneous travelling, drug addiction, toxic relationships, and all other manner of filth continued to lead my life by a nose ring. The only thing that changed was the fact that I was completely incapable of denying the existence of God. 6/1-2 years later I had returned to Pennysylva prison to for violating my parole to finish the 2-1/2 years left on the 5. When I had got there I had to get things in order and that consisted of needing writing material and envelopes. I approached a man who's zeal and demeanor drew my to him. I introduced myself and commented on his joyous countenance. "It's the Lord in me!" He proudly stated. I asked him for the necessities, and he said he would not give a couple sheets of paper, a pen and an envelope but he would give me a pen a pad of paper I'd I promised to read one chapter from the book of John for one week. I quickly said I don't have a Bible as I tried to get out of it. (I had picked the Bible up dozens of times in my life to seek for comfort, answers, etc., and by the time I read two or three lines it would anger me and I would throw from me what I believed to be the worst and most worthless book in existence.) He quickly reached into his locker and produced a KJV Bible that I could keep! I went back to my bunk wrote a letter and fell asleep. The next morning when I woke he was already up with the Bible. Though I was regretting it, I was going to keep my word. I reached for the Bible and found John. I began reading, and by the 10th verse or so I became exhilarated inside as my eyes of understanding were instantaneously opened to understand it! Literally, for about 10 months and every bit of 18-20 hrs a day I read and studied using a Strings concordance. I was literally unable to put it down without desperation to pick it right back up. Since then I am compelled to study or read almost daily, it is my sustenance, it is my direction, it is the living word of God in my hands. I have between 10-15,000 thousands of hours buried in it in search of and to confirm what has been revealed to me by the Holy Spirit. I have kept from commentary, I have only used a reference Bible to compare scripture with scripture. What I KNOW to be the TRUTH in the Bible is the Pauline doctrine of saved by grace and justified by faith.
The ground rules pertaining to that doctrine is that everything and anything that pertains to salvation is solely the will and work of God. You can not loose your salvation if you truly are imputed with the Holy Spirit. Your works are debt, and your Faith in the truth justifies your salvation. Everything needed to get to heaven is supplied by God. God is sovereign, just, and wholly righteous in everything he has done, is doing, and will do. We exist and all are abundantly blessed (even the unbelievers) because of only him. He is are maker, and we are mere clay vessels. He has the right to pick and choose if he wants, and he does. He did not send Christ as an example but a savior for His.
It is clear throughout the old and new testament that he will choose as he wills, and it will be so. In exodist I believe, he tells Israel he chose them, and left the entire world out of his saving grace, and that was after he killed all but 8 souls on the planet. Anyhow, the bottom line for me is that if my eternal destination of my spirit is left in my hands in the slightest way, then there is no good news, because I have a tendency to mess earthly circumstances up, let alone spiritually things I can't begin to understand let alone get right. As humbly as I can say it, I am chosen, and the proof is abundant. I know that the idea we have no choice in the matter is a heated debate, but I'm leaning toward the thought that most of the heat comes from those who are unable to come to the knowledge of the truth. I don't need to defend the truth, it defends me. There is a short version of my testimony and doctrinal beliefs. For obvious reasons, much of the working will of God and his persistent love and grace were excluded. Do give me for it will NEVER be about me. I love everyone of you with a love that has been given to me to give away. That to me is the biggest factor of the Spirit within me...I used to hate everyone. Peace my brothers and sisters. Rest in the truth, you have the creator of all things wielding from himself the most powerful entity to exist (love) to make sure you make it home safe. Rest in the Good news for God's sake. :) Love you all...God bless!
Sorry I could not finish reading your testimony, it was a bit too long to finish, smaller paragraphs
would be nice.

God bless you!