GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

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gb9

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in the opening discourse that John writes in his Gospel, after he says " the Word became flesh.... he says " the Law came through Moses...

the Law. singular. funny how people that very selectively choose to quote Scripture give sound bites with opinion commentary, instead of letting Scripture interpret Scripture. ( it does, but one needs to read all of in context, and chronological order.)
 
beta

beta

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Dan_473 said:
I think it's interesting that you use "sin is transgression of the law"
which i believe is a kjv-ism

i think a better translation is
Sin is being without law
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either way amounts to the same thing whether you reject it or transgress it....
fact being you are LAWLESS !!!
 
beta

beta

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posthuman said:
For my part I believe 'not under law' means 'not under law'


I don't find it necessary to rewrite scripture. :p
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let's put it another way...if we are not under law does that mean we are 'above the law ???

in any case...WHICH law are we even talking about ? we lump them all together as if there was no difference between Lev 10v10.
 
posthuman

posthuman

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Transgression of the law / lawlessness is not a complete definition of sin. The scripture also says whatever is not of faith is sin, and that the law is not of faith. The law is certainly not sinful, that's not what this means, if it is used lawfully. But it means there must be sin apart from transgression of law. Death reigned even among those who did not sin as Adam, who disobeyed a direct command, without being deceived.
 
posthuman

posthuman

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beta said:
let's put it another way...if we are not under law does that mean we are 'above the law ???

in any case...WHICH law are we even talking about ? we lump them all together as if there was no difference between Lev 10v10.
Click to expand...
There are more directions than under & above
 
Endoscopy

Endoscopy

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posthuman said:
Notice that says "the Law" not 'the priesthood of Levi'


Who ya gon' believe?
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I take the word of Jesus on the law.

Matthew 5:13 to 20 NIV
Jesus saying he came to fulfill the law and the prophets.

Salt and Light
13 “You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.
14 “You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. 16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.
The Fulfillment of the Law
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Here is the law.

In addition to the 10 commandments there are the laws scattered through the Torah.


List of the 613 laws in the Torah
All 613 Commandments in the Old Testament Law of Moses


Discussion about the 613 laws in the Torah
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_commandments
 
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beta

beta

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posthuman said:
Transgression of the law / lawlessness is not a complete definition of sin. The scripture also says whatever is not of faith is sin, and that the law is not of faith. The law is certainly not sinful, that's not what this means, if it is used lawfully. But it means there must be sin apart from transgression of law. Death reigned even among those who did not sin as Adam, who disobeyed a direct command, without being deceived.
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It seems to me that we can sin IGNORANTLY....does not always have to be wilfully with intent or from lack of understanding or knowing Truth.... there are various reasons why we sin and only GOD can read the intents of the heart and judge accordingly !
It helps to be 'humble and repentant and acknowledge our limitations always !
 
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gb9

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beta said:
It seems to me that we can sin IGNORANTLY....does not always have to be wilfully with intent or from lack of understanding or knowing Truth.... there are various reasons why we sin and only GOD can read the intents of the heart and judge accordingly !
It helps to be 'humble and repentant and acknowledge our limitations always !
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it does not matter. God's system is not like man-made courts. don't conflate the two. in man-made courts, a speeding ticket and theft , while they both break the law, they do not carry the same penalty.

in God's system, one sin , of any kind, stains the soul. a Holy and Righteous and Transcendent God cannot tolerate sin of any kind.

remember " though your sins be as scarlet , I will wash them white as snow ". sins. one word.

( paraphrase of Isaiah 1 v.18 . )
 
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posthuman

posthuman

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Whoever has died is no longer under law

Romans 7:6
But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

That's us, as far as the law, which is the power of sin, is able to judge and either approve or condemn. Dead. Free!

Colossians 3:3
For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God.

He makes the dead spring to life :)
 
posthuman

posthuman

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gb9 said:
it does not matter. God's system is not like man-made courts. don't conflate the two. in man-made courts, a speeding ticket and theft , while they both break the law, they do not carry the same penalty.

in God's system, one sin , of any kind, stains the soul. a Holy and Righteous and Transcendent God cannot tolerate sin of any kind.

remember " though your sins be as scarlet , I will wash them white as snow ". sins. one word.

( paraphrase of Isaiah 1 v.18 . )
Click to expand...
Break one part, guilty of all. Perfect or not perfect; mostly-perfect doesn't cut it. And He's perfected forever all who are being made holy! By His own sacrifice! The sacrifice of human flesh ain't instructed in Leviticus, tell you what!

It's the same as what i'm hoping to make studydude understand; the Law that established the priesthood of Levi, he accepts as removed. You can't break one part and think the totality is whole. Jackson has been trying for months to get the same truth across, pointing out that the penalty of sin is in the same Law as the command not to sin. You can't shatter the Law into pieces and pick up only a handful of them and think it's not broken.
 
posthuman

posthuman

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Colossians 3:3 doesn't say 'you have mostly died'

I believe died means died :rolleyes:
 
S

Studyman

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gb9 said:
in the opening discourse that John writes in his Gospel, after he says " the Word became flesh.... he says " the Law came through Moses...

the Law. singular. funny how people that very selectively choose to quote Scripture give sound bites with opinion commentary, instead of letting Scripture interpret Scripture. ( it does, but one needs to read all of in context, and chronological order.)
Click to expand...
Did Moses give Abraham God’s Law?
 
Dan_473

Dan_473

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Endoscopy said:
You have a flawed theology. Jesus was the only one who never broke the law. He was sinless. That fact made Him the unblemished Lamb of God and an acceptable sacrifice for our sins. If you admit to being a sinner then you admit the law is in place like Jesus stated. Sin is transgression of the law. Basic definitions.
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But when the set time had fully come,God sent his Son,born of a woman,
born under the law

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians4&version=NIV


if
"under the law"

means
"having the penalties of transgressing the law"

then

Jesus was born
"having the penalties of transgressing the law"



I don't think that.
I think
"under the law"
means
"obligated to do what the law says"
 
S

Studyman

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posthuman said:
Whoever has died is no longer under law

Romans 7:6
But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

That's us, as far as the law, which is the power of sin, is able to judge and either approve or condemn. Dead. Free!

Colossians 3:3
For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God.

He makes the dead spring to life :)
Click to expand...
Why??? So you can create your own High days, your own religion? Why did He pay the penalty for your rebellion and indifference of the God of the Bible? So you could reject His instruction once again?

I don’t think so.
 
Dan_473

Dan_473

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Studyman said:
No paradox.

Either you misunderstand what “under the law” means. Or Jesus is confused about His Fathers Laws. I’m going with the Christ on this one. I think it is your understanding that is flawed, not the Christ’s.
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I believe you have presented a false dichotomy

I believe there is at least one other possible solution

here
The whole law is fulfilled by obeying this one command. “Love your neighbor as you love yourself.”

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians5&version=NIRV
 
Dan_473

Dan_473

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posthuman said:
For my part I believe 'not under law' means 'not under law'


I don't find it necessary to rewrite scripture. :p
Click to expand...
yes, the common meaning that people intuitively get when they read that phrase

and it fits well with other places in Galatians where Paul uses a phrase that starts with "under the"
 
Dan_473

Dan_473

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beta said:
either way amounts to the same thing whether you reject it or transgress it....
fact being you are LAWLESS !!!
Click to expand...
I disagree that it amounts to the same thing

I don't know of any Christians who don't keep the Sabbath and are also without any law

for example
Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.
 
posthuman

posthuman

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Studyman said:
Why??? So you can create your own High days, your own religion? Why did He pay the penalty for your rebellion and indifference of the God of the Bible? So you could reject His instruction once again?

I don’t think so.
Click to expand...
Does reading Colossians 3 always make you talk this way?
 
Dan_473

Dan_473

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posthuman

posthuman

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Colossians 3:2-3
Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things. For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God.

This is where it's supposed to put your mind.

Not, for example, on such things as malice and slander ((v.8)), and neither the things as described in 2:20-23, which make a false appearance of wisdom but are ultimately of no value to save, as though a form of godliness that denies His power & the reality of His authority.
 
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