Why do Christians struggle to reconcile Law and Grace?

[eternally-gratefull]

I agree that the Law shows we are sinners.

However it's still a moral standard I believe God wants us to strive to live.

In addition, there is a difference between Old covenant laws (animal sacrifice, feasts, sabbaths, cleansing rituals, etc) and New covenant laws (Jesus sacrifice, charity to others, resting in Christ, washed in the blood, etc)

I think it is all said in2 commands

1. love god
2. Love all others

if we look at these two commands

1.we can know as long as we follow them, we will not sin
2.we will know whenever we failed to do these two things we hav sinned

we are then free to focus on loving and servi g ohers, and not following some rule book to see if we are good enough or not.

 

[PennEd]

Then WHO tells you 'not to sin...if it is not God ?

I'm sorry. I don't see how this question relates even slightly to your original post and my rebuttal.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

By the way,

people obey BECAUSE they have been born again, not in order to be born again.

the term “those who obey” are descriptive of thise who are born again and recieves the spirit. not instructions to how one gets the spirit.

 

[Studyman]

what does this have to do with you saying there are those who say the law is abolished.

can you show where people sait it or not?

enough with the games

LOL,

I tried!!

Have a good day EG

 

[eternally-gratefull]

LOL,

I tried!!

Have a good day EG

you tried?

you failed, why cant you just admit no one says what you claimed they said?


I am having a great day. Looking forward to heaven with my savior and all the rest my of my christian family

 

[JGIG]

Questions for all:

Where in Scripture does it say that Law and Grace need to be 'reconciled'?

Where in Scripture does it say that Law and Grace somehow need to be kept in 'balance'?

Where in Scripture does it say that the Law is separated into categories (ceremonial, moral, etc.), where some still apply and some don't?​

When I read New Covenant Scriptures (written to those in Christ after the Cross), I see things like:

Believers in Christ have died to the Law so that they may serve and bear fruit unto God (Rom. 7).

Believers in Christ are to be led by the Spirit and not by the Law so that they bear the fruit of God (Gal. 5).

Believers are dead to sin because they are under Grace and not under the Law (Rom. 6).

Believers are told that love fulfills the Law (if we are loving those around us we are not stealing from them, lying to them, committing sexual sin with or against them, coveting their whatever, etc. Rom. 13). While the commandments that God cares about are fulfilled by love, we are no longer bound to those commandments, we are dead to them.​

Seems like reconciliation of the Law and Grace is not needed at all . . . .



-JGIG

 

[Shamah]

Here is the final message written to the servants of Messiah, DIRECTLY from the mouth of Yahshua given to His servant John:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 14:12-13, “Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the Commands of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]and the Belief of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]. And I heard a voice out of the heaven saying to me, Write, Blessed are the dead who die in the Master from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, in order that they rest from their labors, and their works follow with them.”

maybe it is sin the believer is dead to?

after all the Law is written on the heart:

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 10:16, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT]

 

[Nehemiah6]

Seems like reconciliation of the Law and Grace is not needed at all ...

IF YOU WISH TO IGNORE WHAT IS STATED IN THE NEW COVENANT

 

[mailmandan]

they don't ''actually SAY 'grace is a licence to sin'...but stating you are set free from the law is saying ''just that ''...you are without law...lawless! what else can it mean ???

 

[posthuman]

I have never heard anyone saying grace is a license to sin except when those still in bondage to the law use it to disparage those who have been set free.

..as some slanderously claim that we say..
(Romans 3:8) ​

 

[posthuman]

Saying behavior doesn't matter to salvation is license to sin.

You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love.
(Galatians 5:13)
​

what kind of "freedom" is it where one could never get the impression that it were possible to use it to indulge the flesh?
like, why does 'do not use your freedom for..' even have to be said, if it were already implicit that you're not actually free in this way?

IOW how free is "free" ?
is it actual freedom ?
is 'salvation' little more than 'one extra chance not to screw up' or is it actual salvation​ ?

 

[Shamah]

You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love.
(Galatians 5:13)
​

what kind of "freedom" is it where one could never get the impression that it were possible to use it to indulge the flesh?
like, why does 'do not use your freedom for..' even have to be said, if it were already implicit that you're not actually free in this way?

IOW how free is "free" ?
is it actual freedom ?
is 'salvation' little more than 'one extra chance not to screw up' or is it actual salvation​ ?

free from bondage... to sin...

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalm 119:44-45, "That I might guard Your Law continually, Forever and ever; That I might walk in liberty, For I have sought Your orders;"[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]James 1:22-25, “And become doers of the Word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. Because if anyone is a hearer of the Word and not a doer, he is like a man who looks at his natural face in a mirror, for he looks at himself, and goes away, and immediately forgets what he was like. But he that looked into the perfect Law of liberty, and continues in it, not becoming a hearer that forgets, but a doer of work, this one shall be blessed in his doing.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]James 2:8-12, “If you truly accomplish the sovereign Law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself, (Lev 19:18) you do well, but if you show partiality, you commit sin, being found guilty by the Law as transgressors. For whoever shall guard all the Law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” (Exo 20:14) also said, “Do not murder.” (Exo 20:13) Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of Law. So speak and so do as those who are to be judged by the Law of liberty.”

when you love Yah and want to do His will you love His ways also, when you don't you will see His Instructions as bondage
[/FONT]

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love.
(Galatians 5:13)
​

what kind of "freedom" is it where one could never get the impression that it were possible to use it to indulge the flesh?
like, why does 'do not use your freedom for..' even have to be said, if it were already implicit that you're not actually free in this way?

IOW how free is "free" ?
is it actual freedom ?
is 'salvation' little more than 'one extra chance not to screw up' or is it actual salvation​ ?

It's freedom from sin. It's not freedom to do whatever we want.

 

[beta]

..as some slanderously claim that we say..
(Romans 3:8) ​

then can you please explain WHAT GUIDANCE a man follows AFTER he considers himself 'set free from GOD's law/Commandments ???????
Man is obviously under some leadership either from above or from below, for scripture says
Jer 10 v23, O Lord I know that the way of man is not in himself, it is not in man that walks to direct his steps.
So rejecting GOD's leadership and advice is to leave yourself wide open to every kind of evil !!!

 

[beta]

It's freedom from sin. It's not freedom to do whatever we want.

Yes...Freedom from sin is to ''no longer transgress God's Commands ! as long as a man continues to transgress/ reject/ Disobey GOD's WILL (expressed in Commands) he is NOT free from sin !

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

By the way,

people obey BECAUSE they have been born again, not in order to be born again.

the term “those who obey” are descriptive of thise who are born again and recieves the spirit. not instructions to how one gets the spirit.

Excellent!!
It's very difficult to grasp (and keep!) complete dependence on God rather than self. But when we get more consistent, with less wavering between self reliance vs God reliance, then what we saw as commands become promises. Isn't it the strangest thing??

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Posts #66 and #71 are stunning. JGIG and posthuman - these posts of yours are just excellent! You are both so good at being concise, like...surgeons!

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Posts #66 and #71 are stunning. JGIG and posthuman - these posts of yours are just excellent! You are both so good at being concise, like...surgeons!

It's interesting to see the people who like post #71 and the ones who like my post in response to it (both quoted below). The ones who like my post IMO lean towards dead legalism, which I categorically reject. I also reject lawless grace that holds salvation cannot be jeopardized by the practice of sinful behavior.

Do the ones who like PH's post think that grace gives them the freedom to do whatever they want in life?

You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love.
(Galatians 5:13)
​

what kind of "freedom" is it where one could never get the impression that it were possible to use it to indulge the flesh?
like, why does 'do not use your freedom for..' even have to be said, if it were already implicit that you're not actually free in this way?

IOW how free is "free" ?
is it actual freedom ?
is 'salvation' little more than 'one extra chance not to screw up' or is it actual salvation​ ?

It's freedom from sin. It's not freedom to do whatever we want.

 

[Yahshua]

From Paul, a New Testament preacher of Grace, to Timothy:

2 Timothy 3:2-4
For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, unloving, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, without love of good, traitorous, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having a form of godliness but denying its power.


2 Timothy 3:14-17
14 But as for you, continue in the things you have learned and firmly believed...

15 From infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for instruction, for conviction, for correction, and for training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be complete, fully equipped for every good work.


...again, this is Paul saying this about the only holy scriptures they had at the time: the so called "Law/Torah/OT".

He starts the chapter speaking about those who appear godly, but who deny the power by living ungodly. So Paul concludes the chapter by saying that all of the Torah/OT/Law is to be used by the believer for teaching godliness.

Again, this was instructed by the preacher of Grace, Paul - who was filled with the Holy Spirit, after Pentecost - to Timothy, to preach where he was.


Spirit-filled Paul says the Law/Torah/OT is full-of-use for:

1. Instruction - "This is the proper order of things; i.e. what you're supposed to do vs. not."

2. Conviction - "What you're doing right now is considered sin in Yah's eyes."

3. Correction - "You're in error or inaccurate; here's the proper understanding."

4. Training in Righteousness - "These are the actions you're to repeat as a righteous person."


To "deny the power" means these people have access to the Divine Power but didn't implement it.

So when a believer in Christ uses the Law/Torah/OT to instruct, convict, correct, or train another believer in Christ in what they are to do after salvation it isn't an act of pride, carnality, rejecting Christ, returning to bondage, twisting or deception, implication of a lack of salvation, or an act of offense against the believer in Christ...but an act of obedience to Paul, preacher of Grace...and consequently an act of obedience to the Holy Spirit who was inspiring Paul...and by effect an act of love from the Holy Spirit who purposed the instruction, conviction, correction and training through that messenger.

Yah corrects those He loves (Proverbs 3:12; Hebrews 12:6; Revelation 3:19).


****
...It's what a believer in Christ is supposed to do for another believer in Christ, AS LONG AS they're not teaching the believer to perform sacrifices and other levitical blood works/deeds of the Law/Torah/OT, because that's what Christ is doing in heaven with his blood right now...which we can't see...which is why we must have faith in Him for our salvation.
****


The Holy Spirit inspired Paul to tell Timothy that without the Law/Torah/OT, a believer in Christ is not complete or fully equipped for every good work that Yah has ordained for them to do.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

Do the ones who like PH's post think that grace gives them the freedom to do whatever they want in life?

i believe to say a born again believer hasnt been made new is a ridiculous claim.....

if "whatever they want" means to live feeding your fleshly lusts this doesnt sound like someone who recieved a new heart or quickened spirit to begin with


Gods children want to obey Him

if they fail they have an advocate

failing would mean they desire righteousness

not selfish pleasures


sin is something you dont excuse or justify as a child of God

but we hate sin and wish to be delivered from it


that being said

your performance or walk doesnt add too
or take away

from the gift of salvation


1 sin
2 sins
50 sins doesnt make a new creature any less saved


the same way

1 work
2 works
50 works doesnt make any man even slightly more justified


we are saved by grace through faith apart from the law or works


UNTO good works