GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

[Studyman]

the veil in this context is not the veil covering the door to the holy of holies -- though there is a relation.

the veil being spoken of is the one Moses wore over his face.

we cannot say this is simply about Levite priesthood either, because verse 7 references a ministry engraved in letters on stone -- clearly the 10 commandments, which are representative of the covenant that Moses was made mediator of. this is about the covenant not about a subset of the law of that covenant or solely the priesthood of that covenant. "where there is a change in priesthood there is of necessity a change of law also"

The people didn't walk around carrying two tablets of stone. They received what was written from the Levite Priests.

The New Covenant changed how the Word's written on these stones were administered. Not the Word's on the Stone.

Heb. 8:8 For finding fault with them,(Those who administered God's Laws, not the Laws they administered)) he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

Hebrews 7 specifically tells us what the change is. The Old Covenant that was changed, required Levites to administer God's Laws. Jesus wasn't a Levite. So the Priesthood Law was changed to allow someone other than a Levite to hold the Priest's office.

12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda;(Not Levi to whom the Priesthood was given) of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.


Your preaching that God's Laws for the people were changed in this action is not Biblically supported. Actually Jesus teaches exactly the opposite.

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

He promised a change in the Priesthood duties in Jer. 31 and He "fulfilled" His promise.

4 For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:

6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry,(Priesthood) by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

And what are the promises?

"I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts:" No more carnal Levite Priests to filter God's Word.

"for I will forgive their iniquity," No more carnal animal sacrifices and ceremonial "works of the Law" for remission of sins.

The Word which became Flesh didn't say He was going to write "New Laws" on our hearts. That is a fabrication of religious man.

 

[Shamah]

Shamah,

"The term "under the Law" is being under the curse of the Law:"

i disagree

Galatians 4: 4. God sent out his Son, born to a woman, born under the law

Jesus was born obligated to do what the law says


same construction here
Matthew 8: 9. For I am also a man under authority

it doesn't mean the man is under the curse of authority

OK, Im open to hear your view, if you are correct you would have to explain why then did Paul who says he is not "under the Law" also says he keeps the Law:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 24:14, "But I confess this to you, that after the way which they call heresy, so I (Paul) worship the Father of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 7:25, "Thanks be to YHWH, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of YHWH, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 21:24, "Take them, and be purified with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads. Then everyone will know that those things they were informed about you (forsaking the Law), were lies, and that you (Paul), yourself, walk orderly, and keep the Law."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Corinthians 7:19, "For neither circumcision counts for anything nor uncircumcision, but keeping the commandments of Yah?"[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 8:5-8, "For those who live according to the flesh, set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit, set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against; (bitterly opposed to), YHWH; for it is not subject to the Law of YHWH, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are of the flesh cannot please YHWH."[/FONT]

 

[Dan_473]

OK, Im open to hear your view, if you are correct you would have to explain why then did Paul who says he is not "under the Law" also says he keeps the Law:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 24:14, "But I confess this to you, that after the way which they call heresy, so I (Paul) worship the Father of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 7:25, "Thanks be to YHWH, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of YHWH, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 21:24, "Take them, and be purified with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads. Then everyone will know that those things they were informed about you (forsaking the Law), were lies, and that you (Paul), yourself, walk orderly, and keep the Law."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Corinthians 7:19, "For neither circumcision counts for anything nor uncircumcision, but keeping the commandments of Yah?"[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 8:5-8, "For those who live according to the flesh, set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit, set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against; (bitterly opposed to), YHWH; for it is not subject to the Law of YHWH, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are of the flesh cannot please YHWH."[/FONT]

Paul continued to keep the law in order to win those who were still under the law, obligated to do what the law says

"to those who are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain those who are under the law," he says

 

[Dan_473]

note how James contrasts how Paul lives with what they told the gentiles

Acts 21: 24. you yourself also walk keeping the law. 25. But concerning the Gentiles who believe, we have written our decision that they should [observe no such thing, except that they should] keep themselves from food offered to idols, from blood, from strangled things, and from sexual immorality."

 

[Endoscopy]

Shamah,

"The term "under the Law" is being under the curse of the Law:"

i disagree

Galatians 4: 4. God sent out his Son, born to a woman, born under the law

Jesus was born obligated to do what the law says


same construction here
Matthew 8: 9. For I am also a man under authority

it doesn't mean the man is under the curse of authority

Jesus said the law would endure until heaven and earth disappear. For reference here is the law and a discussion of it.

List of the 613 laws in the Torah
All 613 Commandments in the Old Testament Law of Moses


Discussion about the 613 laws in the Torah
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_commandments

 

[Studyman]

note how James contrasts how Paul lives with what they told the gentiles

Acts 21: 24. you yourself also walk keeping the law. 25. But concerning the Gentiles who believe, we have written our decision that they should [observe no such thing, except that they should] keep themselves from food offered to idols, from blood, from strangled things, and from sexual immorality."

23 Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them;

24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.

So do you use this verse and your desire for what it says to make void all the rest of the Bible? Should Paul require all Gentiles to shave their heads?

Is there a Law of God that requires men to shave their heads?

 

[lightbearer]

doesn't that mean tzitzit, dietary restrictions, daily sacrifices, new moon festivals and collection of tithes by Levites are not gone either?

or is there some justifiable reason to break the Law apart and selectively erase some jots and some tittles but leave others?
if so what's the basis for ignoring some parts and enforcing some others?

It was a blotting out of the handwriting to the ordinances that were against us not the ordinances themselves.

 

[Dan_473]

Jesus said the law would endure until heaven and earth disappear. For reference here is the law and a discussion of it.

List of the 613 laws in the Torah
All 613 Commandments in the Old Testament Law of Moses


Discussion about the 613 laws in the Torah
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_commandments

the law does endure


The law of theLord*is perfect.
****It gives us new strength.
The laws of the*Lord*can be trusted.
****They make childish people wise.
8*The rules of the*Lord*are right.
****They give joy to our hearts.
The commands of the*Lord*shine brightly.
****They give light to our minds.
9*The law that brings respect for the*Lord*is pure.
****It lasts forever.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalms19&version=NIRV

if we are led by the spirit we are not under it

 

[Dan_473]

23 Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them;

24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.

So do you use this verse and your desire for what it says to make void all the rest of the Bible? Should Paul require all Gentiles to shave their heads?

Is there a Law of God that requires men to shave their heads?

the answer to each of your three questions is No

i use the passage to show how James contrasts how Paul lives with what they told the gentiles

 

[Studyman]

the answer to each of your three questions is No

i use the passage to show how James contrasts how Paul lives with what they told the gentiles

As long as you understand there was no contrast between James and Paul. What they told the Gentiles is that they shouldn't be "bothered" by ancient religious traditions, but instead, being a "DOER" of God's Laws.

 

[Dan_473]

As long as you understand there was no contrast between James and Paul. What they told the Gentiles is that they shouldn't be "bothered" by ancient religious traditions, but instead, being a "DOER" of God's Laws.

the contrast is between how Paul lives and what they told the gentiles

what they told the gentiles:

We have already given written directions to the believers who are not Jews. They must not eat food that has been offered to statues of gods. They must not drink blood. They must not eat the meat of animals that have been choked to death. And they must not commit sexual sins.”

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts21&version=NIRV

 

[Studyman]

the contrast is between how Paul lives and what they told the gentiles

what they told the gentiles:

We have already given written directions to the believers who are not Jews. They must not eat food that has been offered to statues of gods. They must not drink blood. They must not eat the meat of animals that have been choked to death. And they must not commit sexual sins.”

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts21&version=NIRV

It's absurd to conclude that they were not directed to learn from Moses, follow the first and greatest commandments, etc.

 

[Dan_473]

It's absurd to conclude that they were not directed to learn from Moses, follow the first and greatest commandments, etc.

James is referring to basically the first epistle to the gentiles

if you want to pick an additional passage from the scriptures where gentiles are instructed, maybe we can discuss that, too

 

[Studyman]

James is referring to basically the first epistle to the gentiles

if you want to pick an additional passage from the scriptures where gentiles are instructed, maybe we can discuss that, too

There is no Jew or Gentile in Christ, only the Faithful.

 

[Dan_473]

There is no Jew or Gentile in Christ, only the Faithful.

yes and no

there is a sense in which jew and gentile can be applied among believers

Galatians 2: 13. And the rest of the Jews joined him in his hypocrisy; so that even Barnabas was carried away with their hypocrisy. 14. But when I saw that they didn't walk uprightly according to the truth of the Good News, I said to Peter before them all, "If you, being a Jew, live as the Gentiles do, and not as the Jews do, why do you compel the Gentiles to live as the Jews do?

 

[Dan_473]

it's similar to this

Galatians 3: 28. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

yet, there are particular inductions to slaves and males and females

 

[PS]

it's similar to this

Galatians 3: 28. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

yet, there are particular inductions to slaves and males and females

For their care and well-being, thereby honouring the teaching of Jesus.

 

[Dan_473]

lol
particular inductions*

should be
particular instructions

 

[Studyman]

yes and no

there is a sense in which jew and gentile can be applied among believers

Galatians 2: 13. And the rest of the Jews joined him in his hypocrisy; so that even Barnabas was carried away with their hypocrisy. 14. But when I saw that they didn't walk uprightly according to the truth of the Good News, I said to Peter before them all, "If you, being a Jew, live as the Gentiles do, and not as the Jews do, why do you compel the Gentiles to live as the Jews do?

You are assuming that the Jews were following God's Laws because you have bought into the insidious lie that the Pharisees were trying to earn Salvation by following God's Laws and not by following the "Commandments of Men" as Jesus instructed you.

Since you believe this lie, you assume the "Good News" is a Gospel which doesn't include the same Walk that Jesus Walked or the Apostles walked.

So when Paul made the statement about "living as the Jews do", you assume this means living in God's Commandments given for our Good by the Word which became Flesh, when it really means living in the religious traditions and "Laws" (Commandments of men as Jesus called it) created by the Mainstream preachers (Jews) of that time.

It would be like you saying Catholicism is a false preaching while you eat fish every Friday, buy Christmas gifts of a picture of a long haired pretty boy you call Jesus that you give to your friend while at Mass on Good Friday.

 

[Dan_473]

For their care and well-being, thereby honouring the teaching of Jesus.

from my point of view, i find it hard to believe that slaves are told to stay with their masters For their care and well-being