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Your are confusing the figurative language used in the Bible with the reality of the forgiveness of sins.
Sins are not "washed away", they are "forgiven". The phrase wash away your sins is a figure of speech much like the rising and setting of the sun. The sun does not actually rise or set, the movement of the earth causes it.
Neither water nor blood forgives sin, God chooses to forgive sins. Period.
We may debate the why, when and who gets the forgiveness of sins but the notion that physical water or blood is strictly a figurative expression of that forgiveness. Nothing more.
Stop and think about that.
If someone invites you to go swimming, would you ask them, "In water?". Of course not. The tacit understanding of swim, shower, bath or baptism is with water. Are your aware of the meaning of "tacit understandings"?
Who says it is irrelevant?
Does water baptism save? That is the dividing line I see, between whether WATER baptism saves, or if it is the baptism of the Holy Spirit of God being the one that saves.
actually, it means "to immerse" or, just "immerse". It also applies to dying cloth, and a version of it applies to making pickles.
doesn't mean "to cleanse".
Nothing carnal or anything God made in his creation can save a person's soul.Whatever water is designed to do, that is what it does. drinking ,cleansing the body , washing clothes, cooking, and drinking.. Only a spiritual being such as God can save a person. Not his body, but his soul, which is a spirit.
An hour and 8 minutes of someone trying desperately to convince others that:
38 Peter answered them, “All of you must turn to God and change the way you think and act, and each of you must be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ so that your sins will be forgiven. Then you will receive the Holy Spirit as a gift. Acts 2:38
does not mean what it says.
He draws out long and painful excuses why people should not accept what is written at face value but accept his understanding instead. After about 40 minutes he begins to get tried but muddles along with his anti-baptism diagram. At one point having to change markers after using up all its ink.
Shocking how much energy, time and ink people will use to defend faith alone regeneration theology.
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Amen, that gift is the holy spirit. that is how you are saved. That is the gift that is given by grace.
There are some who claim that water baptism is altogether unnecessary for Christians (born-again believers). Hence making it irrelevant. Hyper-Dispensationalists reject water baptism. Some people also claim that there is only one baptism for Christians, which is Spirit baptism. And then there are some who believe that the water of baptism washes away sins. Which is false.
The reasons why there is so much confusion about whether baptism is necessary for salvation are (a) there are a few Scriptures which give this impression (Mark 16:16; Acts 2:38), (b) the Early Church Fathers began teaching baptismal regeneration and the "traditionalist" churches made this their teaching, and (c) the Protestant Reformers continued to call it a sacrament and continued to baptize babies.
L..., Why do you pit the two in opposition?
They are both required.
The Bible says baptism is required for ..."completeness"... of sin cleansing.
Ok, Time-out... (taking a risk and speaking as a man) So let me get this straight... Are there some here that believe there is no water baptism in Jesus? That the only baptism that is supposed to be in a Jesus church is that of the spirit? Is that what some of you are saying?
-Kelby
-Kelby
LW97
The instruction Jesus gave to His disciples in Matthew 28 and Mark 16 appears to be about baptism in water in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Since only Jesus baptizes with the Spirit, the Baptism with the Holy Spirit is not under discussion, although you and others would like it to be. The primary meaning of the terms is to “immerse” or to “dip,” not cleansed although we are cleansed with water (Eph. 5:26), “washed” (1 Cor. 6: 11), “our bodies washed with pure water) (Heb. 10: 22), “our sins washed away” (Acts 22: 16), “for the forgiveness of sins” (Acts 2: 38), “freed from sin” (Rom. 6; 3-7; 17, 18), “cleansed from dead works” (Heb. 9: 14), “ released from sin by His blood” (Rev. 1: 5), “washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb” (Rev 7: 14), “sprinkled with his blood” 91 Peter 1; 2), etc. So even though you may not prefer it, that kind of language is found in the scriptures.
Jesus, not the Holy Spirit, is the propitiation for our sins. (1 John 2: 2)
Jesus saves people from their sins. (Matt. 1: 21)
Jesus died for our sins, not the Spirit
Jesus shed His blood, once for all.
He is both the sacrifice, the Lamb of God, and the High Priest that presented His offering before the Father.
This is said not to diminish the baptism with the Holy Spirit.
The baptism in water in the name of Christ is about repentance and forgiveness of sins, death, burial and thank God, resurrection, and freedom from sin.
The baptism in the Holy Spirit by Jesus is about life in the Son and regeneration and renewal and a new heart and a new spirit, the eternal Spirit is our seal of sonship and our pledge of redemption of our mortal bodies, He is our comforter and guide.
The baptism in water and Spirit is the one baptism; we need both elements.
God bless, and praise God.
The instruction Jesus gave to His disciples in Matthew 28 and Mark 16 appears to be about baptism in water in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Since only Jesus baptizes with the Spirit, the Baptism with the Holy Spirit is not under discussion, although you and others would like it to be. The primary meaning of the terms is to “immerse” or to “dip,” not cleansed although we are cleansed with water (Eph. 5:26), “washed” (1 Cor. 6: 11), “our bodies washed with pure water) (Heb. 10: 22), “our sins washed away” (Acts 22: 16), “for the forgiveness of sins” (Acts 2: 38), “freed from sin” (Rom. 6; 3-7; 17, 18), “cleansed from dead works” (Heb. 9: 14), “ released from sin by His blood” (Rev. 1: 5), “washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb” (Rev 7: 14), “sprinkled with his blood” 91 Peter 1; 2), etc. So even though you may not prefer it, that kind of language is found in the scriptures.
Jesus, not the Holy Spirit, is the propitiation for our sins. (1 John 2: 2)
Jesus saves people from their sins. (Matt. 1: 21)
Jesus died for our sins, not the Spirit
Jesus shed His blood, once for all.
He is both the sacrifice, the Lamb of God, and the High Priest that presented His offering before the Father.
This is said not to diminish the baptism with the Holy Spirit.
The baptism in water in the name of Christ is about repentance and forgiveness of sins, death, burial and thank God, resurrection, and freedom from sin.
The baptism in the Holy Spirit by Jesus is about life in the Son and regeneration and renewal and a new heart and a new spirit, the eternal Spirit is our seal of sonship and our pledge of redemption of our mortal bodies, He is our comforter and guide.
The baptism in water and Spirit is the one baptism; we need both elements.
God bless, and praise God.
p...,
Good points made...et al......, including Acts 2;38-41 ....Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ, for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
(you can't get more compelling than that!!!...and a clear direction that the Holy Spirit joins our walk when we are baptized).
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
And when is this free gift given to us?
Peter answered them, “All of you must turn to God and change the way you think and act, and each of you must be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ so that your sins will be forgiven. Then you will receive the Holy Spirit as a gift
Do not become bewitched by the craftiness of faith alone regeneration theology.
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What was John's baptism? He baptized unto repentance with water baptism or immersed one in the water. Then something happened, Jesus came on the scene! John said "behold the Lamb of God", John said, "I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you (or immerse you) with the Holy Ghost, and with fire":
Have you been Holy Spirit baptized (or immersed) into the Holy Spirit of God? This is the salvation that men need in order to be saved. Water baptism is a beautiful thing, Jesus even told John that it becomes us to do it, and we should get water baptized to follow our LORD's example, but salvation comes at the point of receiving the Holy Spirit of God. But ye are not in the flesh,but in the Spirit, if so be the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ , he is none of his. Did you get that? If you haven't been Holy Spirit baptized then you do not belong to Jesus. Very simple and straight forward, no spins, no bewitchery as some would have folks to believe. Please try to distinguish between water baptism and its purpose and Holy Spirit baptism and its purpose which I believe I have clearly illustrated with the above scriptures
Have you been Holy Spirit baptized (or immersed) into the Holy Spirit of God? This is the salvation that men need in order to be saved. Water baptism is a beautiful thing, Jesus even told John that it becomes us to do it, and we should get water baptized to follow our LORD's example, but salvation comes at the point of receiving the Holy Spirit of God. But ye are not in the flesh,but in the Spirit, if so be the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ , he is none of his. Did you get that? If you haven't been Holy Spirit baptized then you do not belong to Jesus. Very simple and straight forward, no spins, no bewitchery as some would have folks to believe. Please try to distinguish between water baptism and its purpose and Holy Spirit baptism and its purpose which I believe I have clearly illustrated with the above scriptures
and, you are baptized in the Spirit at the time you are water baptized.... at least according to Peter...
whether you get any miraculous manifestations of the Spirit is totally up to the Spirit, and could happen at any time....
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Sadly some people want to make the receiving of the HS baptism a requirement of the WORK of water baptism. They say until the work (physical) is completed, the spiritual will not happen.
what they have basically done is condemned a bunch of people who had true faith in Christ, but died before they were able to be baptized. and the Whole OT believers who were never baptized (only priests and gentile converts were immersed in water in the OT)