Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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Originally Posted by dcontroversal
why is it hard for you to understand what I have said.....JESUS WAS UNDER THE LAW what he said had to be applicable to that time frame...HIS death RATIFIED a NEW COVENANT of GRACE, the CONDEMNATION of the LAW is no longer LEVELED at those who believe. And the words he speaks in MATTHEW MUST be vied in light of this truth. THOSE in CHRIST are NOT condemned by the LAW, but rather dealt with as CHILDREN and chastised...they are NOT cast away LOST, but whipped as a child to yield the peaceable fruits of righteousness.....again...the words have nothing to do with losing salvation.....salvation CANNOT be lost......rewards, honor and possible positions in the Kingdom as a ruler can be, but our standing as a child by BIRTH is eternally secure in Christ, as is our position!
Seohce
Romans 3:19-20 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.
1 Timothy 1:9-11 We also know that law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious; for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, for adulterers and perverts, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine that conforms to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.
JESUS WAS BORN UNDER THE LAW BUT IT DOESN’T MEAN THAT HE IS UNDER THE LAW OF MOSES BECAUSE:
Hebrews 3:3 Jesus has been found worthy of greater honor than Moses, just as the builder of a house has greater honor than the house itself.
Romans 7:12 So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.
IF JESUS WAS UNDER THE LAW, AND WE KNOW THAT WHATEVER THE LAW SAYS,, IT SAYS TO THOSE WHO ARE UNDER THE LAW AND IT IS NOT MADE FOR THE RIGHTEOUS BUT FOR THE LAWBREAKERS, WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF JESUS THEN? WAS HE NOT DECLARED RIGHTEOUS?
IF ANYONE CLAIMS THAT HIS HEAD(JESUS) IS UNDER THE LAW THEN HE HIMSELF(THE BODY) IS UNDER THE LAW.
dcon said
...So genius....CURSED is everyone that hangs on a tree<----TELL us ALL what JESUS did when he was CRUCIFIED, HUNG on a CROSS and CRIED MY GOD, MY GOD why has thou forsake ME!...
NoNameMcgee and TruthTalk like this.
Seohce
GOD SAID THAT HE WILL NEVER LEAVE US NOR FORSAKE US.(heb 13:5)
DID GOD FORSAKE JESUS?
DO YOU NOW BELIEVE THAT GOD CAN FORSAKE US IF HE DECIDES TO, JUST TO BE PROVEN RIGHT?
Galatians 3:10,13-14 ALL WHO RELY ON OBSERVING THE LAW ARE UNDER A CURSE, for it is written: “cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.” Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.” He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.
SO, CURSED ARE THOSE WHO ARE HUNG ON A TREE AND THEY ARE THOSE WHO DO NOT CONTINUE TO DO EVERYTHING WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW.
WAS JESUS DISOBEDIENT TO GOD’S LAWS AND COMMANDMENTS THAT HE SHOULD BE CURSED AND DESERVE TO BE HUNG ON A TREE?
OR WAS HE UNDER THE LAW OF MOSES TO DESERVE SUCH DEATH ON THE CROSS?
BUT WHAT DID HE SAY?
John 14:31 but the world must learn that I love the Father and that I do exactly what my Father has commanded me. “Come now; let us leave.
LOVE IS THE FULFILLMENT OF THE LAW.(rom 13:10)
Matthew 5:17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
1 John 3:16 This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers.
1 Corinthians 12:3 Therefore I tell you that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.
...LET GOD BE TRUE AND EVERY MAN A LIAR.
why is it hard for you to understand what I have said.....JESUS WAS UNDER THE LAW what he said had to be applicable to that time frame...HIS death RATIFIED a NEW COVENANT of GRACE, the CONDEMNATION of the LAW is no longer LEVELED at those who believe. And the words he speaks in MATTHEW MUST be vied in light of this truth. THOSE in CHRIST are NOT condemned by the LAW, but rather dealt with as CHILDREN and chastised...they are NOT cast away LOST, but whipped as a child to yield the peaceable fruits of righteousness.....again...the words have nothing to do with losing salvation.....salvation CANNOT be lost......rewards, honor and possible positions in the Kingdom as a ruler can be, but our standing as a child by BIRTH is eternally secure in Christ, as is our position!
Seohce
Romans 3:19-20 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.
1 Timothy 1:9-11 We also know that law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious; for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, for adulterers and perverts, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine that conforms to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.
JESUS WAS BORN UNDER THE LAW BUT IT DOESN’T MEAN THAT HE IS UNDER THE LAW OF MOSES BECAUSE:
Hebrews 3:3 Jesus has been found worthy of greater honor than Moses, just as the builder of a house has greater honor than the house itself.
Romans 7:12 So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.
IF JESUS WAS UNDER THE LAW, AND WE KNOW THAT WHATEVER THE LAW SAYS,, IT SAYS TO THOSE WHO ARE UNDER THE LAW AND IT IS NOT MADE FOR THE RIGHTEOUS BUT FOR THE LAWBREAKERS, WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF JESUS THEN? WAS HE NOT DECLARED RIGHTEOUS?
IF ANYONE CLAIMS THAT HIS HEAD(JESUS) IS UNDER THE LAW THEN HE HIMSELF(THE BODY) IS UNDER THE LAW.
dcon said
...So genius....CURSED is everyone that hangs on a tree<----TELL us ALL what JESUS did when he was CRUCIFIED, HUNG on a CROSS and CRIED MY GOD, MY GOD why has thou forsake ME!...
NoNameMcgee and TruthTalk like this.
Seohce
GOD SAID THAT HE WILL NEVER LEAVE US NOR FORSAKE US.(heb 13:5)
DID GOD FORSAKE JESUS?
DO YOU NOW BELIEVE THAT GOD CAN FORSAKE US IF HE DECIDES TO, JUST TO BE PROVEN RIGHT?
Galatians 3:10,13-14 ALL WHO RELY ON OBSERVING THE LAW ARE UNDER A CURSE, for it is written: “cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.” Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.” He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.
SO, CURSED ARE THOSE WHO ARE HUNG ON A TREE AND THEY ARE THOSE WHO DO NOT CONTINUE TO DO EVERYTHING WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW.
WAS JESUS DISOBEDIENT TO GOD’S LAWS AND COMMANDMENTS THAT HE SHOULD BE CURSED AND DESERVE TO BE HUNG ON A TREE?
OR WAS HE UNDER THE LAW OF MOSES TO DESERVE SUCH DEATH ON THE CROSS?
BUT WHAT DID HE SAY?
John 14:31 but the world must learn that I love the Father and that I do exactly what my Father has commanded me. “Come now; let us leave.
LOVE IS THE FULFILLMENT OF THE LAW.(rom 13:10)
Matthew 5:17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
1 John 3:16 This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers.
1 Corinthians 12:3 Therefore I tell you that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.
...LET GOD BE TRUE AND EVERY MAN A LIAR.
Originally Posted by dcontroversal
why is it hard for you to understand what I have said.....JESUS WAS UNDER THE LAW what he said had to be applicable to that time frame...HIS death RATIFIED a NEW COVENANT of GRACE, the CONDEMNATION of the LAW is no longer LEVELED at those who believe. And the words he speaks in MATTHEW MUST be vied in light of this truth. THOSE in CHRIST are NOT condemned by the LAW, but rather dealt with as CHILDREN and chastised...they are NOT cast away LOST, but whipped as a child to yield the peaceable fruits of righteousness.....again...the words have nothing to do with losing salvation.....salvation CANNOT be lost......rewards, honor and possible positions in the Kingdom as a ruler can be, but our standing as a child by BIRTH is eternally secure in Christ, as is our position!
Seohce
Romans 3:19-20 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.
1 Timothy 1:9-11 We also know that law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious; for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, for adulterers and perverts, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine that conforms to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.
JESUS WAS BORN UNDER THE LAW BUT IT DOESN’T MEAN THAT HE IS UNDER THE LAW OF MOSES BECAUSE:
Hebrews 3:3 Jesus has been found worthy of greater honor than Moses, just as the builder of a house has greater honor than the house itself.
Romans 7:12 So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.
IF JESUS WAS UNDER THE LAW, AND WE KNOW THAT WHATEVER THE LAW SAYS,, IT SAYS TO THOSE WHO ARE UNDER THE LAW AND IT IS NOT MADE FOR THE RIGHTEOUS BUT FOR THE LAWBREAKERS, WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF JESUS THEN? WAS HE NOT DECLARED RIGHTEOUS?
IF ANYONE CLAIMS THAT HIS HEAD(JESUS) IS UNDER THE LAW THEN HE HIMSELF(THE BODY) IS UNDER THE LAW.
dcon said
...So genius....CURSED is everyone that hangs on a tree<----TELL us ALL what JESUS did when he was CRUCIFIED, HUNG on a CROSS and CRIED MY GOD, MY GOD why has thou forsake ME!...
NoNameMcgee and TruthTalk like this.
Seohce
GOD SAID THAT HE WILL NEVER LEAVE US NOR FORSAKE US.(heb 13:5)
DID GOD FORSAKE JESUS?
DO YOU NOW BELIEVE THAT GOD CAN FORSAKE US IF HE DECIDES TO, JUST TO BE PROVEN RIGHT?
Galatians 3:10,13-14 ALL WHO RELY ON OBSERVING THE LAW ARE UNDER A CURSE, for it is written: “cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.” Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.” He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.
SO, CURSED ARE THOSE WHO ARE HUNG ON A TREE AND THEY ARE THOSE WHO DO NOT CONTINUE TO DO EVERYTHING WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW.
WAS JESUS DISOBEDIENT TO GOD’S LAWS AND COMMANDMENTS THAT HE SHOULD BE CURSED AND DESERVE TO BE HUNG ON A TREE?
OR WAS HE UNDER THE LAW OF MOSES TO DESERVE SUCH DEATH ON THE CROSS?
BUT WHAT DID HE SAY?
John 14:31 but the world must learn that I love the Father and that I do exactly what my Father has commanded me. “Come now; let us leave.
LOVE IS THE FULFILLMENT OF THE LAW.(rom 13:10)
Matthew 5:17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
1 John 3:16 This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers.
1 Corinthians 12:3 Therefore I tell you that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.
...LET GOD BE TRUE AND EVERY MAN A LIAR.
why is it hard for you to understand what I have said.....JESUS WAS UNDER THE LAW what he said had to be applicable to that time frame...HIS death RATIFIED a NEW COVENANT of GRACE, the CONDEMNATION of the LAW is no longer LEVELED at those who believe. And the words he speaks in MATTHEW MUST be vied in light of this truth. THOSE in CHRIST are NOT condemned by the LAW, but rather dealt with as CHILDREN and chastised...they are NOT cast away LOST, but whipped as a child to yield the peaceable fruits of righteousness.....again...the words have nothing to do with losing salvation.....salvation CANNOT be lost......rewards, honor and possible positions in the Kingdom as a ruler can be, but our standing as a child by BIRTH is eternally secure in Christ, as is our position!
Seohce
Romans 3:19-20 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.
1 Timothy 1:9-11 We also know that law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious; for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, for adulterers and perverts, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine that conforms to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.
JESUS WAS BORN UNDER THE LAW BUT IT DOESN’T MEAN THAT HE IS UNDER THE LAW OF MOSES BECAUSE:
Hebrews 3:3 Jesus has been found worthy of greater honor than Moses, just as the builder of a house has greater honor than the house itself.
Romans 7:12 So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.
IF JESUS WAS UNDER THE LAW, AND WE KNOW THAT WHATEVER THE LAW SAYS,, IT SAYS TO THOSE WHO ARE UNDER THE LAW AND IT IS NOT MADE FOR THE RIGHTEOUS BUT FOR THE LAWBREAKERS, WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF JESUS THEN? WAS HE NOT DECLARED RIGHTEOUS?
IF ANYONE CLAIMS THAT HIS HEAD(JESUS) IS UNDER THE LAW THEN HE HIMSELF(THE BODY) IS UNDER THE LAW.
dcon said
...So genius....CURSED is everyone that hangs on a tree<----TELL us ALL what JESUS did when he was CRUCIFIED, HUNG on a CROSS and CRIED MY GOD, MY GOD why has thou forsake ME!...
NoNameMcgee and TruthTalk like this.
Seohce
GOD SAID THAT HE WILL NEVER LEAVE US NOR FORSAKE US.(heb 13:5)
DID GOD FORSAKE JESUS?
DO YOU NOW BELIEVE THAT GOD CAN FORSAKE US IF HE DECIDES TO, JUST TO BE PROVEN RIGHT?
Galatians 3:10,13-14 ALL WHO RELY ON OBSERVING THE LAW ARE UNDER A CURSE, for it is written: “cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.” Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.” He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.
SO, CURSED ARE THOSE WHO ARE HUNG ON A TREE AND THEY ARE THOSE WHO DO NOT CONTINUE TO DO EVERYTHING WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW.
WAS JESUS DISOBEDIENT TO GOD’S LAWS AND COMMANDMENTS THAT HE SHOULD BE CURSED AND DESERVE TO BE HUNG ON A TREE?
OR WAS HE UNDER THE LAW OF MOSES TO DESERVE SUCH DEATH ON THE CROSS?
BUT WHAT DID HE SAY?
John 14:31 but the world must learn that I love the Father and that I do exactly what my Father has commanded me. “Come now; let us leave.
LOVE IS THE FULFILLMENT OF THE LAW.(rom 13:10)
Matthew 5:17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
1 John 3:16 This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers.
1 Corinthians 12:3 Therefore I tell you that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.
...LET GOD BE TRUE AND EVERY MAN A LIAR.
Posted again for the working for Catholic....
why is it hard for you to understand what I have said.....JESUS WAS UNDER THE LAW what he said had to be applicable to that time frame...HIS death RATIFIED a NEW COVENANT of GRACE, the CONDEMNATION of the LAW is no longer LEVELED at those who believe. And the words he speaks in MATTHEW MUST be vied in light of this truth. THOSE in CHRIST are NOT condemned by the LAW, but rather dealt with as CHILDREN and chastised...they are NOT cast away LOST, but whipped as a child to yield the peaceable fruits of righteousness.....again...the words have nothing to do with losing salvation.....salvation CANNOT be lost......rewards, honor and possible positions in the Kingdom as a ruler can be, but our standing as a child by BIRTH is eternally secure in Christ, as is our position!
.So genius....CURSED is everyone that hangs on a tree<----TELL us ALL what JESUS did when he was CRUCIFIED, HUNG on a CROSS and CRIED MY GOD, MY GOD why has thou forsake ME!...
HE who knew NO SIN was MADE SIN FOR US and exactly why he was forsaken, hung on a cross and DIED UNDER THE LAW.....
Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.”
You should open your eyes to the truth because your JESUS is not the JESUS of the bible!
why is it hard for you to understand what I have said.....JESUS WAS UNDER THE LAW what he said had to be applicable to that time frame...HIS death RATIFIED a NEW COVENANT of GRACE, the CONDEMNATION of the LAW is no longer LEVELED at those who believe. And the words he speaks in MATTHEW MUST be vied in light of this truth. THOSE in CHRIST are NOT condemned by the LAW, but rather dealt with as CHILDREN and chastised...they are NOT cast away LOST, but whipped as a child to yield the peaceable fruits of righteousness.....again...the words have nothing to do with losing salvation.....salvation CANNOT be lost......rewards, honor and possible positions in the Kingdom as a ruler can be, but our standing as a child by BIRTH is eternally secure in Christ, as is our position!
.So genius....CURSED is everyone that hangs on a tree<----TELL us ALL what JESUS did when he was CRUCIFIED, HUNG on a CROSS and CRIED MY GOD, MY GOD why has thou forsake ME!...
HE who knew NO SIN was MADE SIN FOR US and exactly why he was forsaken, hung on a cross and DIED UNDER THE LAW.....
Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.”
You should open your eyes to the truth because your JESUS is not the JESUS of the bible!
If this is what I think it is that you are saying. Jesus was not under the law, even though he was born under the law. He was never a sinner to begin with, therefore not being acursed. He never walked in the flesh, never. How can the clay tell the potter what to do? People are making Jesus a mere man.
What do you mean he never walked in the flesh...man you are way off the boat.....
HE came in the likeness of sinful flesh
He was tempted in ALL points as we are tempted
His humanity was seen in the garden when he wished this cup would pass from him
He hungered, he thirsted, he had moments of weakness, wept
HE told a man NOT TO CALL HIM GOOD
and WAS MADE SIN FOR US and was HUNG on the CROSS, CURSED at that MOMENT and FORSAKEN temporarily by the FATHER
THOSE who say he did not come in the FLESH are portraying the spirit of the anti-Christ according to JOHN
HE came in the likeness of sinful flesh
He was tempted in ALL points as we are tempted
His humanity was seen in the garden when he wished this cup would pass from him
He hungered, he thirsted, he had moments of weakness, wept
HE told a man NOT TO CALL HIM GOOD
and WAS MADE SIN FOR US and was HUNG on the CROSS, CURSED at that MOMENT and FORSAKEN temporarily by the FATHER
THOSE who say he did not come in the FLESH are portraying the spirit of the anti-Christ according to JOHN
Jesus walked in the spirit always. his mind and spirit was not of this world. Having to come from heaven with only Gold-like attributes. He proved that he was not under the law by breaking the law of the sabbath according to what they believed was the law. Instead of working, he did good works. Preaching and teaching on the sabbath. Something the people dared not do before he arrived. You see, Lord of the sabbath means BEING IN CONTROL of that day to do whatever he pleases to do. That made them rent their clothes,because of that.
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Luke 6:36-37 (NCV)
[SUP]36 [/SUP] Show mercy, just as your Father shows mercy.
[SUP]37 [/SUP] “Don’t judge other people, and you will not be judged. Don’t accuse others of being guilty, and you will not be accused of being guilty. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.
Mark 4:23-24 (NKJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] If anyone has ears to hear, let him hear."
[SUP]24 [/SUP] Then He said to them, "Take heed what you hear. With the same measure you use, it will be measured to you; and to you who hear, more will be given.
Matthew 5:21-22 (NIV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] "You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'Do not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.'
[SUP]22 [/SUP] But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca,' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell.
Luke 12:9-10 (ESV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] but the one who denies me before men will be denied before the angels of God.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but the one who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.
The Holy Spirit takes a message about Christ, and tries to apply it to the heart of an Unbeliever, therefore to REJECT the message about Christ, IS THE ONLY UNFORGIVABLE SIN, also called Blaspheming the Holy Spirit.
That is only your opinion. Please give me the scripture explicitly defining the mode of baptism. I get tired of opinion being the word of God!!
Here is what the early elders created to define who is and isn't a Christian. Everything outside of this is open to discussion. Mode of baptism for example. Live with it.
THE APOSTLES CREED
() Not included in earliest manuscripts. The origin and date of the creed is unknown.
I believe in God the Father Almighty, Maker of Heaven and Earth; And in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord, who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, dead, and buried. (He descended into Hell.) The third day he rose again from the dead. He ascended into Heaven, and sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty; from there He shall come to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy universal church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and the life everlasting.
Amen.
Here is what the early elders created to define who is and isn't a Christian. Everything outside of this is open to discussion. Mode of baptism for example. Live with it.
THE APOSTLES CREED
() Not included in earliest manuscripts. The origin and date of the creed is unknown.
I believe in God the Father Almighty, Maker of Heaven and Earth; And in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord, who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, dead, and buried. (He descended into Hell.) The third day he rose again from the dead. He ascended into Heaven, and sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty; from there He shall come to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy universal church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and the life everlasting.
Amen.
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Not hardly, and exactly the type of moot argument someone would make who refuses to acknowledge biblical truth, precedence and the very definition and usage of the word and mode in question.....
So...next time you go to a funeral stop all of them from burying the person in question and just chunk them on the ground and sprinkle a little dirt on them....after all...baptism represents death, burial and resurrection......see how that works out
So...next time you go to a funeral stop all of them from burying the person in question and just chunk them on the ground and sprinkle a little dirt on them....after all...baptism represents death, burial and resurrection......see how that works out
It makes the point nicely bro....and what YOU are telling me is that a biblical precedence that represents the burial of a dead man equates to a handful of dirt being sprinkled upon a dead man chunked on the ground....my OPINION is based upon fact....fact that you will argue against WHY exactly.....prove though HISTORY that the word only means to sprinkle...the burden of proof lies in your corner...I pulled the usage of the word by MANY GREEK scholars before the word was even tied to Christian Baptism and you sweep it under the table like dirt....and I know my point was HARSH....as it should be....I am tired of the word of God being swept under the table when the OBVIOUS is evident....
ARGUE the OPINIONS of the FOLLOWING GREEKS and USE of the word BEFORE it is tied to Christian IMMERSION...
Originally Posted by dcontroversal
Concerning Baptize meaning immersion and how the word was used in classical GREEK before it was ever tied to Christian Baptism.....
Truth Magazine Online What Does it mean to Baptize....<---google this as it shows how the Greek word Baptize was employed and used BEFORE it is tied to Christian Immersion which gives weight to the word meaning immersion and how it was used to indicate being UNDER the water....an example is found below...
What Does it Mean to “Baptize”?
By Tom Hamilton
When we want to know what a certain word means, we have to look at how the word itself is used by the people that speak the language in question. Of course, we could look in a dictionary or lexicon, but these reference works themselves are merely cataloged listings of how the word has actually been used.
Therefore, in regard to a theological word like baptizo — “baptize”, we could look in the standard Greek lexicons, which affirm the word means to “dip, plunge, immerse,” but we should also double-check for ourselves by looking at the actual usage of this word in existing Greek literature. This is especially important for theological terms, because there is always the temptation to bend the meaning of a word to support our own peculiar interpretation or theology.
The truth is to be found in how the word was used itself, whether in classical Greek, the Greek of the Septuagint (the Greek translation of the Hebrew OT), the Greek literature contemporary with the NT, or the Greek NT itself.
Classical Greek
The literal meaning of baptizo is evident from its common usage in classical Greek, long before there was any biblical connection to the word. The word is used, for example of ships sinking: “Attalus observed one of his own pentere (a type of ship) which had been rammed by an enemy ship and was sinking (lit. ‘was being baptized’) . . .” (Polybius, Histories 16.6.2; see also 1.51.6). In an ancient medical text, one patient’s labored breathing is described in this way: “. . . she breathed like a diver (lit. ‘one who has been baptized’) who has surfaced” (Hippocrates, Epidemics 5.63).
This image of burial, especially in water, came to have figurative uses as well. It is often used to describe the greatest degree of drunkenness, the idea being that one is immersed in wine. For example, in an appeal for more moderate drinking as opposed to the previous day’s excesses, one speaker identifies himself as “one of those who was soaked (lit. ‘baptized’) yesterday” (Plato, Symposium 176b). Similarly, Plato also uses the term to describe a youth being overwhelmed in a philosophical argument, “I, knowing the young man to be going under (lit. ‘being baptized’) and wanting to give him some breathing-space . . .” (Plato, Euthydemus 277d). We read that the rulers of Egypt enjoyed a sufficient income such that “they do not bury (lit. ‘baptize’) the people with property taxes” (Diodorus Siculus, 1.73). Likewise, Plutarch comments that the Roman emperor Galba was hesitant to declare Otho his successor, because he knew him to be “unrestrained and extravagant and buried (lit. ‘baptized’) under a debt of five million (sesterces)” (Plutarch, Galba 21)
ARGUE the OPINIONS of the FOLLOWING GREEKS and USE of the word BEFORE it is tied to Christian IMMERSION...
Concerning Baptize meaning immersion and how the word was used in classical GREEK before it was ever tied to Christian Baptism.....
Truth Magazine Online What Does it mean to Baptize....<---google this as it shows how the Greek word Baptize was employed and used BEFORE it is tied to Christian Immersion which gives weight to the word meaning immersion and how it was used to indicate being UNDER the water....an example is found below...
What Does it Mean to “Baptize”?
By Tom Hamilton
When we want to know what a certain word means, we have to look at how the word itself is used by the people that speak the language in question. Of course, we could look in a dictionary or lexicon, but these reference works themselves are merely cataloged listings of how the word has actually been used.
Therefore, in regard to a theological word like baptizo — “baptize”, we could look in the standard Greek lexicons, which affirm the word means to “dip, plunge, immerse,” but we should also double-check for ourselves by looking at the actual usage of this word in existing Greek literature. This is especially important for theological terms, because there is always the temptation to bend the meaning of a word to support our own peculiar interpretation or theology.
The truth is to be found in how the word was used itself, whether in classical Greek, the Greek of the Septuagint (the Greek translation of the Hebrew OT), the Greek literature contemporary with the NT, or the Greek NT itself.
Classical Greek
The literal meaning of baptizo is evident from its common usage in classical Greek, long before there was any biblical connection to the word. The word is used, for example of ships sinking: “Attalus observed one of his own pentere (a type of ship) which had been rammed by an enemy ship and was sinking (lit. ‘was being baptized’) . . .” (Polybius, Histories 16.6.2; see also 1.51.6). In an ancient medical text, one patient’s labored breathing is described in this way: “. . . she breathed like a diver (lit. ‘one who has been baptized’) who has surfaced” (Hippocrates, Epidemics 5.63).
This image of burial, especially in water, came to have figurative uses as well. It is often used to describe the greatest degree of drunkenness, the idea being that one is immersed in wine. For example, in an appeal for more moderate drinking as opposed to the previous day’s excesses, one speaker identifies himself as “one of those who was soaked (lit. ‘baptized’) yesterday” (Plato, Symposium 176b). Similarly, Plato also uses the term to describe a youth being overwhelmed in a philosophical argument, “I, knowing the young man to be going under (lit. ‘being baptized’) and wanting to give him some breathing-space . . .” (Plato, Euthydemus 277d). We read that the rulers of Egypt enjoyed a sufficient income such that “they do not bury (lit. ‘baptize’) the people with property taxes” (Diodorus Siculus, 1.73). Likewise, Plutarch comments that the Roman emperor Galba was hesitant to declare Otho his successor, because he knew him to be “unrestrained and extravagant and buried (lit. ‘baptized’) under a debt of five million (sesterces)” (Plutarch, Galba 21)
Addendum that the 5 minute rule prevented me for adding it to the post.
You never responded to my request for verses explicitly defining the mode of baptism!! You make yourself out to be the absolute expert on the Bible. Thus ignoring the fact that there is an ongoing discussion with Christians on both sides. The Apostles Creed was created because of disagreements in the early church. Baptism not being mentioned in it means that Christians on different sides MUST AGREE TO DISAGREE! Something you seem unable to understand.
You never responded to my request for verses explicitly defining the mode of baptism!! You make yourself out to be the absolute expert on the Bible. Thus ignoring the fact that there is an ongoing discussion with Christians on both sides. The Apostles Creed was created because of disagreements in the early church. Baptism not being mentioned in it means that Christians on different sides MUST AGREE TO DISAGREE! Something you seem unable to understand.
The above is a false accusation...I make myself out to be nothing....but I can read and understand definitions and the plain usage of the word by Greek scholars before the word was even tied to Christian Immersion.....
Originally Posted by dcontroversal
Concerning Baptize meaning immersion and how the word was used in classical GREEK before it was ever tied to Christian Baptism.....
Truth Magazine Online What Does it mean to Baptize....<---google this as it shows how the Greek word Baptize was employed and used BEFORE it is tied to Christian Immersion which gives weight to the word meaning immersion and how it was used to indicate being UNDER the water....an example is found below...
What Does it Mean to “Baptize”?
By Tom Hamilton
When we want to know what a certain word means, we have to look at how the word itself is used by the people that speak the language in question. Of course, we could look in a dictionary or lexicon, but these reference works themselves are merely cataloged listings of how the word has actually been used.
Therefore, in regard to a theological word like baptizo — “baptize”, we could look in the standard Greek lexicons, which affirm the word means to “dip, plunge, immerse,” but we should also double-check for ourselves by looking at the actual usage of this word in existing Greek literature. This is especially important for theological terms, because there is always the temptation to bend the meaning of a word to support our own peculiar interpretation or theology.
The truth is to be found in how the word was used itself, whether in classical Greek, the Greek of the Septuagint (the Greek translation of the Hebrew OT), the Greek literature contemporary with the NT, or the Greek NT itself.
Classical Greek
The literal meaning of baptizo is evident from its common usage in classical Greek, long before there was any biblical connection to the word. The word is used, for example of ships sinking: “Attalus observed one of his own pentere (a type of ship) which had been rammed by an enemy ship and was sinking (lit. ‘was being baptized’) . . .” (Polybius, Histories 16.6.2; see also 1.51.6). In an ancient medical text, one patient’s labored breathing is described in this way: “. . . she breathed like a diver (lit. ‘one who has been baptized’) who has surfaced” (Hippocrates, Epidemics 5.63).
This image of burial, especially in water, came to have figurative uses as well. It is often used to describe the greatest degree of drunkenness, the idea being that one is immersed in wine. For example, in an appeal for more moderate drinking as opposed to the previous day’s excesses, one speaker identifies himself as “one of those who was soaked (lit. ‘baptized’) yesterday” (Plato, Symposium 176b). Similarly, Plato also uses the term to describe a youth being overwhelmed in a philosophical argument, “I, knowing the young man to be going under (lit. ‘being baptized’) and wanting to give him some breathing-space . . .” (Plato, Euthydemus 277d). We read that the rulers of Egypt enjoyed a sufficient income such that “they do not bury (lit. ‘baptize’) the people with property taxes” (Diodorus Siculus, 1.73). Likewise, Plutarch comments that the Roman emperor Galba was hesitant to declare Otho his successor, because he knew him to be “unrestrained and extravagant and buried (lit. ‘baptized’) under a debt of five million (sesterces)” (Plutarch, Galba 21)
Concerning Baptize meaning immersion and how the word was used in classical GREEK before it was ever tied to Christian Baptism.....
Truth Magazine Online What Does it mean to Baptize....<---google this as it shows how the Greek word Baptize was employed and used BEFORE it is tied to Christian Immersion which gives weight to the word meaning immersion and how it was used to indicate being UNDER the water....an example is found below...
What Does it Mean to “Baptize”?
By Tom Hamilton
When we want to know what a certain word means, we have to look at how the word itself is used by the people that speak the language in question. Of course, we could look in a dictionary or lexicon, but these reference works themselves are merely cataloged listings of how the word has actually been used.
Therefore, in regard to a theological word like baptizo — “baptize”, we could look in the standard Greek lexicons, which affirm the word means to “dip, plunge, immerse,” but we should also double-check for ourselves by looking at the actual usage of this word in existing Greek literature. This is especially important for theological terms, because there is always the temptation to bend the meaning of a word to support our own peculiar interpretation or theology.
The truth is to be found in how the word was used itself, whether in classical Greek, the Greek of the Septuagint (the Greek translation of the Hebrew OT), the Greek literature contemporary with the NT, or the Greek NT itself.
Classical Greek
The literal meaning of baptizo is evident from its common usage in classical Greek, long before there was any biblical connection to the word. The word is used, for example of ships sinking: “Attalus observed one of his own pentere (a type of ship) which had been rammed by an enemy ship and was sinking (lit. ‘was being baptized’) . . .” (Polybius, Histories 16.6.2; see also 1.51.6). In an ancient medical text, one patient’s labored breathing is described in this way: “. . . she breathed like a diver (lit. ‘one who has been baptized’) who has surfaced” (Hippocrates, Epidemics 5.63).
This image of burial, especially in water, came to have figurative uses as well. It is often used to describe the greatest degree of drunkenness, the idea being that one is immersed in wine. For example, in an appeal for more moderate drinking as opposed to the previous day’s excesses, one speaker identifies himself as “one of those who was soaked (lit. ‘baptized’) yesterday” (Plato, Symposium 176b). Similarly, Plato also uses the term to describe a youth being overwhelmed in a philosophical argument, “I, knowing the young man to be going under (lit. ‘being baptized’) and wanting to give him some breathing-space . . .” (Plato, Euthydemus 277d). We read that the rulers of Egypt enjoyed a sufficient income such that “they do not bury (lit. ‘baptize’) the people with property taxes” (Diodorus Siculus, 1.73). Likewise, Plutarch comments that the Roman emperor Galba was hesitant to declare Otho his successor, because he knew him to be “unrestrained and extravagant and buried (lit. ‘baptized’) under a debt of five million (sesterces)” (Plutarch, Galba 21)
I will never be shamed to make a stance on a proven historical and biblical precedence.....ever......I may apologize for the way I say something, but I will NEVER apologize for the truth.....ever!
A person dies....are they....
a. Chunked on the ground and sprinkled with dirt
b. Placed IN/UNDER the ground and COVERED with dirt or SEALED in a tomb
Baptism represents one of the above....ONE is false ONE is TRUE....ONE is biblical ONE IS NOT
End of story no matter how one wants to spin it!
A person dies....are they....
a. Chunked on the ground and sprinkled with dirt
b. Placed IN/UNDER the ground and COVERED with dirt or SEALED in a tomb
Baptism represents one of the above....ONE is false ONE is TRUE....ONE is biblical ONE IS NOT
End of story no matter how one wants to spin it!
The problem with this is there are many Christians that disagree with you about what the Bible states concerning many issues including baptism. Why do you think you are the only Christian that understands the Bible. You ignore the reason the Apostles Creed was created. Differences of opinion concerning the meaning on different issues caused the creed to be created. This issue is in that category. All of the ranting you do on this issue is extreme in condemning those who disagree with you. I suggest you use the letters on Christian bracelets that was popular for a while. WWJD what would Jesus do. Would he write such hate filled arguments ?
The above is a false accusation...I make myself out to be nothing....but I can read and understand definitions and the plain usage of the word by Greek scholars before the word was even tied to Christian Immersion.....
Originally Posted by dcontroversal
Concerning Baptize meaning immersion and how the word was used in classical GREEK before it was ever tied to Christian Baptism.....
Truth Magazine Online What Does it mean to Baptize....<---google this as it shows how the Greek word Baptize was employed and used BEFORE it is tied to Christian Immersion which gives weight to the word meaning immersion and how it was used to indicate being UNDER the water....an example is found below...
What Does it Mean to “Baptize”?
By Tom Hamilton
When we want to know what a certain word means, we have to look at how the word itself is used by the people that speak the language in question. Of course, we could look in a dictionary or lexicon, but these reference works themselves are merely cataloged listings of how the word has actually been used.
Therefore, in regard to a theological word like baptizo — “baptize”, we could look in the standard Greek lexicons, which affirm the word means to “dip, plunge, immerse,” but we should also double-check for ourselves by looking at the actual usage of this word in existing Greek literature. This is especially important for theological terms, because there is always the temptation to bend the meaning of a word to support our own peculiar interpretation or theology.
The truth is to be found in how the word was used itself, whether in classical Greek, the Greek of the Septuagint (the Greek translation of the Hebrew OT), the Greek literature contemporary with the NT, or the Greek NT itself.
Classical Greek
The literal meaning of baptizo is evident from its common usage in classical Greek, long before there was any biblical connection to the word. The word is used, for example of ships sinking: “Attalus observed one of his own pentere (a type of ship) which had been rammed by an enemy ship and was sinking (lit. ‘was being baptized’) . . .” (Polybius, Histories 16.6.2; see also 1.51.6). In an ancient medical text, one patient’s labored breathing is described in this way: “. . . she breathed like a diver (lit. ‘one who has been baptized’) who has surfaced” (Hippocrates, Epidemics 5.63).
This image of burial, especially in water, came to have figurative uses as well. It is often used to describe the greatest degree of drunkenness, the idea being that one is immersed in wine. For example, in an appeal for more moderate drinking as opposed to the previous day’s excesses, one speaker identifies himself as “one of those who was soaked (lit. ‘baptized’) yesterday” (Plato, Symposium 176b). Similarly, Plato also uses the term to describe a youth being overwhelmed in a philosophical argument, “I, knowing the young man to be going under (lit. ‘being baptized’) and wanting to give him some breathing-space . . .” (Plato, Euthydemus 277d). We read that the rulers of Egypt enjoyed a sufficient income such that “they do not bury (lit. ‘baptize’) the people with property taxes” (Diodorus Siculus, 1.73). Likewise, Plutarch comments that the Roman emperor Galba was hesitant to declare Otho his successor, because he knew him to be “unrestrained and extravagant and buried (lit. ‘baptized’) under a debt of five million (sesterces)” (Plutarch, Galba 21)
Concerning Baptize meaning immersion and how the word was used in classical GREEK before it was ever tied to Christian Baptism.....
Truth Magazine Online What Does it mean to Baptize....<---google this as it shows how the Greek word Baptize was employed and used BEFORE it is tied to Christian Immersion which gives weight to the word meaning immersion and how it was used to indicate being UNDER the water....an example is found below...
What Does it Mean to “Baptize”?
By Tom Hamilton
When we want to know what a certain word means, we have to look at how the word itself is used by the people that speak the language in question. Of course, we could look in a dictionary or lexicon, but these reference works themselves are merely cataloged listings of how the word has actually been used.
Therefore, in regard to a theological word like baptizo — “baptize”, we could look in the standard Greek lexicons, which affirm the word means to “dip, plunge, immerse,” but we should also double-check for ourselves by looking at the actual usage of this word in existing Greek literature. This is especially important for theological terms, because there is always the temptation to bend the meaning of a word to support our own peculiar interpretation or theology.
The truth is to be found in how the word was used itself, whether in classical Greek, the Greek of the Septuagint (the Greek translation of the Hebrew OT), the Greek literature contemporary with the NT, or the Greek NT itself.
Classical Greek
The literal meaning of baptizo is evident from its common usage in classical Greek, long before there was any biblical connection to the word. The word is used, for example of ships sinking: “Attalus observed one of his own pentere (a type of ship) which had been rammed by an enemy ship and was sinking (lit. ‘was being baptized’) . . .” (Polybius, Histories 16.6.2; see also 1.51.6). In an ancient medical text, one patient’s labored breathing is described in this way: “. . . she breathed like a diver (lit. ‘one who has been baptized’) who has surfaced” (Hippocrates, Epidemics 5.63).
This image of burial, especially in water, came to have figurative uses as well. It is often used to describe the greatest degree of drunkenness, the idea being that one is immersed in wine. For example, in an appeal for more moderate drinking as opposed to the previous day’s excesses, one speaker identifies himself as “one of those who was soaked (lit. ‘baptized’) yesterday” (Plato, Symposium 176b). Similarly, Plato also uses the term to describe a youth being overwhelmed in a philosophical argument, “I, knowing the young man to be going under (lit. ‘being baptized’) and wanting to give him some breathing-space . . .” (Plato, Euthydemus 277d). We read that the rulers of Egypt enjoyed a sufficient income such that “they do not bury (lit. ‘baptize’) the people with property taxes” (Diodorus Siculus, 1.73). Likewise, Plutarch comments that the Roman emperor Galba was hesitant to declare Otho his successor, because he knew him to be “unrestrained and extravagant and buried (lit. ‘baptized’) under a debt of five million (sesterces)” (Plutarch, Galba 21)