Not By Works

[benhur]

why is it hard for you to understand what I have said.....Jesus was under the law, what he said had to be applicable to that time frame...HIS death RATIFIED a NEW COVENANT of GRACE, the CONDEMNATION of the LAW is no longer LEVELED at those who believe. And the words he speaks in MATTHEW MUST be vied in light of this truth. THOSE in CHRIST are NOT condemned by the LAW, but rather dealt with as CHILDREN and chastised...they are NOT cast away LOST, but whipped as a child to yield the peaceable fruits of righteousness.....again...the words have nothing to do with losing salvation.....salvation CANNOT be lost......rewards, honor and possible positions in the Kingdom as a ruler can be, but our standing as a child by BIRTH is eternally secure in Christ, as is our position!

IOW the words of Christ no longer apply to the salvation of the believers in Christ, since they were spoken under the authority of the law of Moses. The words of Christ my apply to your reward, or honor, or possible position in the KOG, but your entry into the KOG (salvation) is not affected by the words of Christ.

Now I understand.

Christians generally believe that once you have entered the KOG, you are treated just the same as anyone else that has entered into the KOG. So do you believe that some will be rewarded differently or given more/less honor, or positioned closer/further to God and Christ? Can you tell me how that works?

 

[NoNameMcgee]

bump for ben

How difficult is it to understand the words of Jesus: If you do not forgive men their trespasses against you, my Father will not forgive your trespasses against him. IOW unless you do this saying of Jesus, your sins will not be forgiven, and you will not be saved. This is not hard to understand either.

So who gets the priority? The words of Jesus or the words of Paul?

the whole bible is true ben...

the same principal that is being said by Jesus there

is said by Jesus here

matthew 19

16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?

21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

_________

Jesus asked was telling this man how to be perfect

this man believed his works regarding the commandments were perfect (including loving his neighbor as himself)

Jesus is saying ohhhhh is that so?

then give up all your things and follow me
(to expose where this mans heart really was)


22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

____________



again same principal

Luke 10
25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?

26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
(again a man looking to be justified by works)
27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
(this man believes he actually does this fully)
28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.
(Jesus says knowing this man is self righteous yaaa thats all you need then of you are correct)
29 But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbour?
(as if he truely does this knowing Jesus does not believe him asks ohhh who is my neighbor maybe i am wrong mockingly)


30 And Jesus answering said, A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead.

31 And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side.

32 And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked on him, and passed by on the other side.

33 But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him,

34 And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him.

35 And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave them to the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee.

36 Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves?

37 And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.

____________


that amount of money
as well as offering for excess was .... a lot of money at that time....

this exposes that man who believed he was doing these things is actually wrong......

he does not love his enemy as himself as he ought to in order to be perfect

let alone his literal neighbor....


ben

youre constantly taking

reproof

instruction for righteousness

the law

and works

and trying to say a man needs more than grace or faith to be saved


i have tried explaining the context of multiple chapters in matthew to you...

twice


please

pray to God to open your eyes

 

[Endoscopy]

HAHAHHAHAHHHAH............JESUS ate with, socialized with and drank drank with sinners, prostitutes and the outcast of society, whipped men and drove them from the temple in zeal, railed and rebuked false teachers while calling them names such as blind, dead men, hypocrites and fools....would you call him Christian? Probably not....oh by the way....HE also was IMMERSED <------BAP-TIZED

As I asked before where does it say anything about the method of baptism. You saying Jesus was baptized by immersing doesn't make it a fact. Most likely but not provable. I don't want to hear your version of the definition of the words. There is a word similar to baptism that was about washing of the feet. Many years ago I read about that one as well as the word you keep pounding on about. I know there is absolutely no verse defining the method of baptism.

 

[dcontroversal]

IOW the words of Christ no longer apply to the salvation of the believers in Christ, since they were spoken under the authority of the law of Moses. The words of Christ my apply to your reward, or honor, or possible position in the KOG, but your entry into the KOG (salvation) is not affected by the words of Christ.

Now I understand.

Christians generally believe that once you have entered the KOG, you are treated just the same as anyone else that has entered into the KOG. So do you believe that some will be rewarded differently or given more/less honor, or positioned closer/further to God and Christ? Can you tell me how that works?

Concerning the bolded....that is what the bible teaches.......

Concerning those who labor n the word 1st Corinthians 3<---some have works of wood, hay and stubble, some have works of gold, silver and precious stones....both are saved, both have works tried, one is left with purified gold, silver and precious stones after the dross is burnt off, the other left naked and shamed, yet still saved "yet so as by fire"

Crowns to be won by service, martyrdom, service out of love etc.

Those faithful over a few things made ruler over many

The word MISTHOS (REWARD) is pay or wages for service rendered

The parable of the talents

etc......God is faithful, our salvation is secure and eternal in Christ. After salvation we are rewarded for service....in God's kingdom as in any kingdom there will be the ruled and those who rule (some are given rule over cities-->And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.) There will be those with crowns, those without, some wealthy, some lacking, etc.....through and through we see this principle seen....even with JESUS we see this truth...HE was 100% faithful and as God's SON gets IT ALL and we even see there is a place PREPARED for someone to SIT at the right hand and left hand of CHRIST on his throne.....

That is the point of many verses that are erroneously applied unto salvation....it is not about the loss of salvation after one has been given salvation, but rather our eternal reward and inheritance in the kingdom....By faithful service we are rewarded greatly, and those who are not faithful or who serve less their eternal reward in God's kingdom will be less, but their BIRTH by faith is eternally secure....

This is true and this is what the bible teaches.....either a grand entrance into the kingdom or a not so grand entrance into the kingdom....with every gambit in between all based upon our level of faithfulness and service after we have been saved.

 

[Cee]

The goal of the law was to lead us to Christ. Once in Christ we live from His righteousness. And this union allows the fruit of the Spirit to flow through us.

 

[Endoscopy]

Yep....the kind of Christian that believes the bible, the inspired words of God and applies them in a biblical way instead of the kind that sells out the word of God, refuses to apply the inspired words and one that gives a multiple choice application of the word to fit my man made theology.......which one are you?

The kind that at 73 and baptized at 6 and studied the Bible and taken classes in church as first a deacon and later an elder. Part of the studies covered the early church and understood divisions over theological issues started very early. In the 200s the Roman Creed was created and was upgraded to the Apostles Creed in 312 to define who is and isn't a Christian This was created to seperate heretical beliefs from Christian beliefs. This concept was to allow all issues outside this to be agreed to disagree with other Christians.

There are legitimate differences of opinion about many theological issues. As an elder and deacon I have had to understand these differences of opinion. These differences are held by Bible believing Christians backing up their beliefs with the Bible. Having been through this I was forced to understand how and why these differences occur. Your steadfast condemnation of anything outside of your narrow view to me is very erroneous.

 

[Cee]

As I asked before where does it say anything about the method of baptism. You saying Jesus was baptized by immersing doesn't make it a fact. Most likely but not provable. I don't want to hear your version of the definition of the words. There is a word similar to baptism that was about washing of the feet. Many years ago I read about that one as well as the word you keep pounding on about. I know there is absolutely no verse defining the method of baptism.

the Greek word for baptize means to be fully immersed. But consider it like this: we are baptized into His death, He was fully dead and by this, we are also reborn in Him, we are fully alive in Him.

Baptize is the symbolism of dying and being reborn in Christ. If baptism wasn’t full immersion, we’d have a lot of issues, our sin wouldn’t be fully paid for and we wouldn’t be fully united with Christ because Scripture uses baptized for all of these realities.

 

[TruthTalk]

As I asked before where does it say anything about the method of baptism. You saying Jesus was baptized by immersing doesn't make it a fact. Most likely but not provable. I don't want to hear your version of the definition of the words. There is a word similar to baptism that was about washing of the feet. Many years ago I read about that one as well as the word you keep pounding on about.
I know there is absolutely no verse defining the method of baptism.

You are a doubting Thomas, and I think everyone is done explaining to you about the proper method of baptizing, also described as a ship sinking. If you were there during the baptism of Jesus, even standing next to Him, would you believe then what the proper method is? Doubtful. Go forth and re-read your bible and ask God to open your eyes. Makes me wonder if you were ever baptized.

Baptism of Jesus: Matthew3:16
"As soon as Jesus was baptized, "he went up out of the water." At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting on him."

 

[dcontroversal]

As I asked before where does it say anything about the method of baptism. You saying Jesus was baptized by immersing doesn't make it a fact. Most likely but not provable. I don't want to hear your version of the definition of the words. There is a word similar to baptism that was about washing of the feet. Many years ago I read about that one as well as the word you keep pounding on about. I know there is absolutely no verse defining the method of baptism.

The evidence is clear and I am not going to argue with one who refuses to accept the historical and or biblical evidence....I will cite three examples and then believe as you wish as most do.

1st TYPE or PICTURE--Crossing the RED SEA-->They were all IMMERSED UNTO MOSES in the SEA-->The waters STACKED and they went UNDER the level of the water-->1st Corinthians 10:2 And all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea;

HOW could they ALL be IMMERSED in the SEA (over 600,000 men of war over 20 not counting women, children and those too old to fight)

BAPTISED-->baptizó: to dip, sink
Original Word: βαπτίζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: baptizó
Phonetic Spelling: (bap-tid'-zo)
Short Definition: I dip, submerge, baptize
Definition: lit: I dip, submerge, but specifically of ceremonial dipping; I baptize

2nd TYPE or PICTURE--The CROSSING at the Jordan...the WATER PILED UP and they went UNDER IT at the TIME OF THE FLOOD-->JOSHUA 3-->And it shall come to pass, as soon as the soles of the feet of the priests that bear the ark of the LORD, the Lord of all the earth, shall rest in the waters of Jordan, that the waters of Jordan shall be cut off from the waters that come down from above; and they shall stand upon an heap. And it came to pass, when the people removed from their tents, to pass over Jordan, and the priests bearing the ark of the covenant before the people; And as they that bare the ark were come unto Jordan, and the feet of the priests that bare the ark were dipped in the brim of the water, (for Jordan overfloweth all his banks all the time of harvest,) That the waters which came down from above stood and rose up upon an heap very far from the city Adam, that is beside Zaretan: and those that came down toward the sea of the plain, even the salt sea, failed, and were cut off: and the people passed over right against Jericho.

3rd Example--The immersion of JESUS "In those days Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee and was baptized by John in the Jordan. And when he came up out of water, immediately he saw the heavens opened and the Spirit descending upon him like a dove, and a voice came from heaven; "Thou art my beloved Son, with thee I am well pleased."Can you come UP OUT of the WATER unless you have been UNDER IT? NO

BAPTISED-->baptizó: to dip, sinkOriginal Word: βαπτίζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: baptizó
Phonetic Spelling: (bap-tid'-zo)
Short Definition: I dip, submerge, baptize
Definition: lit: I dip, submerge, but specifically of ceremonial dipping; I baptize.

Believe what you want.....i am done arguing with one who will not receive the truth!

 

[dcontroversal]

The kind that at 73 and baptized at 6 and studied the Bible and taken classes in church as first a deacon and later an elder. Part of the studies covered the early church and understood divisions over theological issues started very early. In the 200s the Roman Creed was created and was upgraded to the Apostles Creed in 312 to define who is and isn't a Christian This was created to seperate heretical beliefs from Christian beliefs. This concept was to allow all issues outside this to be agreed to disagree with other Christians.

There are legitimate differences of opinion about many theological issues. As an elder and deacon I have had to understand these differences of opinion. These differences are held by Bible believing Christians backing up their beliefs with the Bible. Having been through this I was forced to understand how and why these differences occur. Your steadfast condemnation of anything outside of your narrow view to me is very erroneous.

Ok, and your acceptance of numerous possibilities proves you stand for nothing and everything at the same time....we can go this route all day long...and your first part = nothing and or proves nothing....God rebuked the three oldest in the discourse of Job while the YOUNGEST that waited to speak was correct and not rebuked....so...as they say in AU...whatevzzz!

 

[Budman]

there is nothing more to say.
to witness someone come into a Christian board and call Yeshua Cursed is unforgivable.


I suggest for the well being of your relationship with our Lord and Savior. That you walk away from this thread and never associate with the spirit that teaches children to call Yeshua Cursed.

Blessed is the Lord who is and was and is to come the All Mighty

"Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law by becoming a curse for us. For it is written: "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree." (Galatians 3:13)

Your response?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

We know what sin is by law.

More importantly, we know we are GUILTY by the law. Anyone who looks at the law and thinks he is innocent, has not been trained by the law.

 

[Endoscopy]

the Greek word for baptize means to be fully immersed. But consider it like this: we are baptized into His death, He was fully dead and by this, we are also reborn in Him, we are fully alive in Him.

Baptize is the symbolism of dying and being reborn in Christ. If baptism wasn’t full immersion, we’d have a lot of issues, our sin wouldn’t be fully paid for and we wouldn’t be fully united with Christ because Scripture uses baptized for all of these realities.

Many years ago I read about 2 different words in koine Greek that could have been the root word for baptism. One was immersing a cloth in a dye vat. The other one was washing someone's feet. That second one brings in pouring and sprinkling. It seems everybody on this subject ignores that word. WHY?

PS: The New Testament was written in koine Greek. Koine is the fact that every time Jews use a language they modify it with Hebrew concepts and words. Today Yiddish is Jewish German.

 

[Endoscopy]

More importantly, we know we are GUILTY by the law. Anyone who looks at the law and thinks he is innocent, has not been trained by the law.

Correct. There are 613 rules of the law as recorded in the Torah. No one can keep them all.

 

[benhur]

Yet Jesus baptized no one. I don't recall Him telling his apostles to baptize anyone by water immersion either.

This scripture tells us that the apostles baptized more than John the Baptist did. I am sure they did not do anything that the master did not approve of.

[h=1]John 4:1-2 King James Version (KJV)[/h][FONT=&quot]4 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]2 (Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,)[/FONT]

 

[dcontroversal]

"Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law by becoming a curse for us. For it is written: "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree." (Galatians 3:13)

Your response?

He will make the same accusation he made about me and then warn everybody not to associate with us or this thread.....He obviously worships a different Jesus than the bible sets forth!

 

[TruthTalk]

Concerning the bolded....that is what the bible teaches.......

Concerning those who labor n the word 1st Corinthians 3<---some have works of wood, hay and stubble, some have works of gold, silver and precious stones....both are saved, both have works tried, one is left with purified gold, silver and precious stones after the dross is burnt off, the other left naked and shamed, yet still saved "yet so as by fire"

Crowns to be won by service, martyrdom, service out of love etc.

Those faithful over a few things made ruler over many

The word MISTHOS (REWARD) is pay or wages for service rendered

The parable of the talents

etc......God is faithful, our salvation is secure and eternal in Christ. After salvation we are rewarded for service....in God's kingdom as in any kingdom there will be the ruled and those who rule (some are given rule over cities-->And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.) There will be those with crowns, those without, some wealthy, some lacking, etc.....through and through we see this principle seen....even with JESUS we see this truth...HE was 100% faithful and as God's SON gets IT ALL and we even see there is a place PREPARED for someone to SIT at the right hand and left hand of CHRIST on his throne.....

That is the point of many verses that are erroneously applied unto salvation....it is not about the loss of salvation after one has been given salvation, but rather our eternal reward and inheritance in the kingdom....By faithful service we are rewarded greatly, and those who are not faithful or who serve less their eternal reward in God's kingdom will be less, but their BIRTH by faith is eternally secure....

This is true and this is what the bible teaches.....either a grand entrance into the kingdom or a not so grand entrance into the kingdom....with every gambit in between all based upon our level of faithfulness and service after we have been saved.

Hi decon, D.L.Moody a preacher whom I'm sure is well known to you, preached salvation by Grace "Not By Works", in Chicago at the turn of the century. This article is but a preview of his life that caught my eye because he has always been "a good soldier for Jesus Christ". I only bring this up because some folks here have made a few distasteful remarks about your style of "Evangelizing";

To wit I say, they lack insight of the Word of God. As the Holy Spirit is our guide into all truth I pray, keep on crafting your words for the everyday folks like me plus hundreds/thousands of more. Preach the "Word" migo, in and out of season ...

A word from Paul to Timothy: 2 Timothy4:2,3
2) "Preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage--with great patience and careful instruction."
3) For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.

The Life & Times of: Dwight L. Moody
Authored by: David Maas​

How an awkward country boy with a grade-school education became the greatest evangelist of the Gilded Age.

Most Americans today probably would fail even to identify Dwight Lyman Moody as a nineteenth-century evangelist. Yet during his day, he was internationally renowned. Moody often spoke to audiences of "ten thousand to twenty thousand people." He presented the plan of Salvation, by voice or pen, to at least "one hundred million people.", D.L. Moody might well be considered the nineteenth century’s “Mr. Protestant.”

The Victorian Age

Moody was born in 1837, a few months before Queen Victoria began her reign, and he died in December, 1899, just nine days before the turn of the century. Moody’s ministry took place in the Gilded Age, a period of dramatic industrial expansion, urbanization, and economic growth. One historian, obviously critical of both the excesses of the Gilded Age and evangelists like Moody, sarcastically wrote: “There was revivalist Moody, bearded and reckless, with his "two hundred and eighty pounds of Adam’s flesh", every ounce of which belonged to God.” Such a narrow perspective, however, fails to understand Moody.
Moody was not only a product of his age, but also a herald of a new one. He pioneered techniques of evangelism that remain largely unchanged today. As one ponders Moody’s deprived, rural boyhood, his career as an evangelist and educator, and his role as a father, he quickly sheds the image of a Victorian antique and emerges as a real person.
Moody’s Youth

Moody’s youth contains no hints that he would later become a famous evangelist. He was born in Northfield, Massachusetts, into a brick-mason’s family. His father died when he was only 4, leaving his mother, Betsey, in charge of raising nine children, all under 13 years ...

Attribute: The Life & Times of D. L. Moody | Christian History

 

[benhur]

Are you saying that John didn't have a vessel to pour water over the person? You are allowing your paradigm of baptism to cloud your thinking. Point out the verse that states immersion. That is the problem. No verse describes how it was done.

Do you have a paradigm of baptism that could possibly be clouding your thinking too? For instance, it is hard for me to believe that Jesus goes all the way to the other side of the Jordan river to find John, who was baptizing in the Jordan river, wades out into the water to about waist deep, and then John fills up a jug of water and pours it over Jesus.

That scenerio stretches the point beyond reasonableness.

John 3:22-23 King James Version (KJV)
22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.
23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.

If John was baptizing where there was much water, a reasonable person would think that he was immersing people, not sprinkling or pouring. Immersion needs much water, not so for sprinkling or pouring.

 

[7777pinacled]

Hi decon, D.L.Moody a preacher whom I'm sure is well known to you, preached salvation by Grace "Not By Works", in Chicago at the turn of the century. This article is but a preview of his life that caught my eye because he has always been "a good soldier for Jesus Christ". I only bring this up because some folks here have made a few distasteful remarks about your style of "Evangelizing";

To wit I say, they lack insight of the Word of God. As the Holy Spirit is our guide into all truth I pray, keep on crafting your words for the everyday folks like me plus hundreds/thousands of more. Preach the "Word" migo, in and out of season ...

A word from Paul to Timothy: 2 Timothy4:2,3
2) "Preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage--with great patience and careful instruction."
3) For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.

The Life & Times of: Dwight L. Moody
Authored by: David Maas​

How an awkward country boy with a grade-school education became the greatest evangelist of the Gilded Age.

Most Americans today probably would fail even to identify Dwight Lyman Moody as a nineteenth-century evangelist. Yet during his day, he was internationally renowned. Moody often spoke to audiences of "ten thousand to twenty thousand people." He presented the plan of Salvation, by voice or pen, to at least "one hundred million people.", D.L. Moody might well be considered the nineteenth century’s “Mr. Protestant.”

The Victorian Age

Moody was born in 1837, a few months before Queen Victoria began her reign, and he died in December, 1899, just nine days before the turn of the century. Moody’s ministry took place in the Gilded Age, a period of dramatic industrial expansion, urbanization, and economic growth. One historian, obviously critical of both the excesses of the Gilded Age and evangelists like Moody, sarcastically wrote: “There was revivalist Moody, bearded and reckless, with his "two hundred and eighty pounds of Adam’s flesh", every ounce of which belonged to God.” Such a narrow perspective, however, fails to understand Moody.
Moody was not only a product of his age, but also a herald of a new one. He pioneered techniques of evangelism that remain largely unchanged today. As one ponders Moody’s deprived, rural boyhood, his career as an evangelist and educator, and his role as a father, he quickly sheds the image of a Victorian antique and emerges as a real person.
Moody’s Youth

Moody’s youth contains no hints that he would later become a famous evangelist. He was born in Northfield, Massachusetts, into a brick-mason’s family. His father died when he was only 4, leaving his mother, Betsey, in charge of raising nine children, all under 13 years ...

Attribute: The Life & Times of D. L. Moody | Christian History

Cryptic luciferian nonsense.

They always use pity like snake oil first.
To draw in the unsuspecting victim.

Then of course they always have this profound format that is convuluded beyond any Life giving Truth.

 

[Cee]

Many years ago I read about 2 different words in koine Greek that could have been the root word for baptism. One was immersing a cloth in a dye vat. The other one was washing someone's feet. That second one brings in pouring and sprinkling. It seems everybody on this subject ignores that word. WHY?

PS: The New Testament was written in koine Greek. Koine is the fact that every time Jews use a language they modify it with Hebrew concepts and words. Today Yiddish is Jewish German.

I did some research because you raised an interesting point.

Your point was that baptism and washing of feet could have been the same root word.

Here's what I found out:

I went to the Scripture that talks directly about washing of feet, this is found in John 13:5.

In one of the most literal translation (BLB) it says:

After that, He pours water into the basin, and He began to wash the feet of the disciples and to wipe them with the towel with which He was girded.

It appears this is a perfect example of the point you raised about, "washing of feet".

So then I went to the Interlinear for John 13:5.

And I discovered that the word used for "washing" of feet in the Greek is niptein.

Niptein is used 2x in the entire NT. And in both instances it's occurrence is used for washing of feet.

The root word, "nipto" is used 17x and every occurrence is used as "washing" or "to wash".

Let me repeat this word is NEVER used or translated in any Scripture as a form of "baptism".

The definition of this root word is "to wash or to cleanse".

Inversely the Greek word we use for "baptism" is baptizo. It means "I dip" or "submerge".

It is NEVER used as washing.

And the root Greek word for "baptism" is bapto. It means "I dip". It was taking from dyeing articles of clothing, etc. You'll notice a couple things about dyeing clothing. One it's fully submerged and where it is fully submerged it is forever changed.

None of these aspects fit with "washing".

So in answer to your question, "That second one brings in pouring and sprinkling. It seems everybody on this subject ignores that word"

The reason everyone ignores that word, "washing" is because it's completely and irrevocably different. In usage, meaning, and even in the basic Greek root word structure.

And just in case you're thinking of "rhantizó" which DOES mean "I sprinkle". And it's Greek word is "rhainó" which means "to sprinkle". This an ENTIRELY different word from both baptism (submerge) and washing (to cleanse). And it is NEVER used as baptism or washing, but it IS used as sprinkling.

It is used only 4x in the entire NT. And each time it is translated as sprinkling and it's context IS sprinkling over something. You can see it used in Hebrews 9 if you'd like to look it up.

If baptism meant only to sprinkle, the word that would be used is rhantizó, but it's not. It's baptizo which ONLY means to submerge.

And if baptism was simply washing one's feet, the word used would be "nipto". And it's not EVER used that way.

So I must assert, once again, that baptism is being fully submerged. And there is no contradiction in any context or Greek transliteration.

At this point, after everything I've shown you. And after I've shown you how to verify everything I've said as 100% true. If you continue down this line of reasoning, I must believe you are simply unwilling to accept the true meaning of baptism.