Not By Works

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TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
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The most famous of the pseudo-christian cults are Jehovah Witnesses, and Mormons. There are several other cults in the psuedo-christian cults, and I can recommend KINGDOM OF THE CULTS, by Walter Martin.



https://www.amazon.com/Kingdom-Cult...eywords=kingdom+of+the+cults+by+walter+martin


They all have what I call the BAIT and SWITCH tactics when them come Proselytising. They will tell you what you think is Good Sound Doctrine, THEN after they get you hooked, they will tell you, "That really isn't what it means." And proceed to lead you astray into FALSE DOCTRINE. They are FAMOUS for using Christian terminology, but IT MEANS SOMETHING TOTALLY DIFFERENT TO THEM, than what we mean by the same Term or Phrase means to us. Baby Christians are especially vulnerable to those kind of lies that lead people astray, because they sound Christian, and the Baby Christians do not know there Bible well enough, yet, to determine Truth from Error.
Amen VCO, I read Walter Martins' book nearly 40yrs ago and it has been helpful throughout my Christian life. This was highly recommended reading when I was a young Christian and It should be today. There are Cristian Cultist today who would attempt to lead us astray even on Christian forums, be careful.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Is OSAS an attempt to distort the wonderful truth of Jesus?

Isn't it true that OSAS = security of the believer?

What we are trying to tell you is that your security belief is not true. If it is not true, you are in a very dangerous position.

Can you tell me what a person must do after they believe in Christ? And if "must' is too harsh, use the word 'should'?
Your view belies ignorance of Greek verb tense, the very words used, the promises and power of Christ and context......
 
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There you go again with that dishonesty problem. Here us the truth:

workers>>>believe and have faith that the grace of Jesus will save us + furnished with all good works out of our love for Jesus.

You must remember our belief system, you misrepresent it all the time.

BTW what the pharisees thought or did is not relevant to us, because they really did think that by their works and by their selves, they could earn their way to heaven. That is not us, and every time you associate pharisee concepts to us, you know you are being dishonest.
Pharisees did not believe in Jesus, we do.
Pharisees did not have faith in Jesus, we do.
Pharisees did not love Jesus, we do.
Pharisees do not have trust in Jesus, we do.
Pharisees do not believe in the grace of Jesus, we do.
Pharisees believe that by their good works, they will go to heaven. we don't.

So where is the association?
Yeah right......not hardly!
 
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Ariel82

Guest
My Pastor is Dr. Gil Rugh, and even he mentioned today in his sermon "the obedience is a test to whether we LOVE HIM. Those who do not LOVE Him, do not obey HIM." DID YOU NOTICE THAT HE SPECIFICALLY SAID IT IS PART OF OUR LOVE FOR HIM, and not part of our SALVATION. YES we are a OSAS {Once Saved, Always Saved} Church.

Another Blessing this morning, is a song that we sang this morning. I had never heard it before, and it really blessed my heart.

WHEN DEATH WAS ARRESTED:

[video=youtube;uMsMiluCUUI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMsMiluCUUI[/video]
Love that song, ordered the cults book...figured God wants me to research it if three of my brothers suggested it to me in a days time.

Probably wouldn't be my first choice for reading though...blah cults..,they are wrong,what else do we need to say?
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Bible>>>Show me your faith without works, and I will show you my faith with my works.

Workers>>>We believe in Jesus and have faith in his grace, + we are furnished with all good works out of love for our Savior.

Pharisees>>>irrelevant.
BIBLE-->Therefore we conclude a man is justified by faith without works..... <-Paul who was inspired.....you not so much!

Romans-->Before God justified by faith WITHOUT WORKS

James-->The above seen by men based upon works which do not save or keep saved

Learn context then engage me...until then your words carry no weight or truth!
 
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Ariel82

Guest
I don't believe so but if they are then perhaps all denominations could be considered a cult.
I don't know maybe I should do some research....the more I learn about the world.,.the more I find out that I really don't know even a grain of sand in the vast ocean of knowledge out there.

Yet what I do know is that Jesus said all we need is a mustard seed size faith....I know I have that and His love...so I guess I will be alright. Jesus is our calm among the stormy seas of life.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
If you don't have security in Christ what do you have?
 
Dec 12, 2013
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I was hoping someone would answer this.
Thanks for doing so.

Am I correct in thinking that we have been sanctified, which means set apart, declared Holy?
And sanctification is walking and growing in this?
Sanctification is dual in use.....

a. Sanctified positionally and eternally in Christ at moment of belief

b. Daily sanctification is a daily process in our physical life based upon growth and maturity <-described in Romans 12 as being transformed
 
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Ariel82

Guest
Sanctification is dual in use.....

a. Sanctified positionally and eternally in Christ at moment of belief

b. Daily sanctification is a daily process in our physical life based upon growth and maturity <-described in Romans 12 as being transformed
Martin Luther called the first type "alien righteousness" because it was not our own but Christ's imputed to us.

The second he called "proper righteousness" which is only made possible by the first one.
 
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Is this descriptive?

And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 2 “Speak to the people of Israel and say to them, qI am the Lord your God. 3 rYou shall not do as they do in the land of Egypt, where you lived, and syou shall not do as they do in the land of Canaan, to which I am bringing you. You shall not walk in their statutes. 4 tYou shall follow my rules1 and keep my statutes and walk in them. qI am the Lord your God. 5 tYou shall therefore keep my statutes and my rules; uif a person does them, he shall live by them: I am the Lord.
6 “None of you shall approach any one of his close relatives to uncover nakedness. I am the Lord. 7 vYou shall not uncover the nakedness of your father, which is the nakedness of your mother; she is your mother, you shall not uncover her nakedness. 8 wYou shall not uncover the nakedness of your father’s wife; it is your father’s nakedness. 9 xYou shall not uncover the nakedness of your sister, your father’s daughter or your mother’s daughter, whether brought up in the family or in another home. 10 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your son’s daughter or of your daughter’s daughter, for their nakedness is your own nakedness. 11 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father’s wife’s daughter, brought up in your father’s family, since she is your sister. 12 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father’s sister; she is your father’s relative. 13 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your mother’s sister, for she is your mother’s relative. 14 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father’s brother, that is, you shall not approach his wife; she is your aunt. 15 yYou shall not uncover the nakedness of your daughter-in-law; she is your son’s wife, you shall not uncover her nakedness. 16 zYou shall not uncover the nakedness of your brother’s wife; it is your brother’s nakedness. 17 You shall not uncover the nakedness of a woman and of her daughter, and you shall not take her son’s daughter or her daughter’s daughter to uncover her nakedness; they are relatives; it is depravity. 18 And you shall not take a woman as a arival wife to her sister, uncovering her nakedness bwhile her sister is still alive.
19 c“You shall not approach a woman to uncover her nakedness while she is in her menstrual uncleanness. 20 dAnd you shall not lie sexually with your neighbor’s wife and so make yourself unclean with her. 21 You shall not give any of your children to eoffer them2 to fMolech, and so gprofane the name of your God: I am the Lord. 22 hYou shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination. 23 iAnd you shall not lie with any animal and so make yourself unclean with it, neither shall any woman give herself to an animal to lie with it: it is jperversion.
24 k“Do not make yourselves unclean by any of these things, lfor by all these the nations I am driving out before you have become unclean, 25 and the mland became unclean, so that I punished its iniquity, and the land nvomited out its inhabitants. 26 But oyou shall keep my statutes and my rules and do none of these abominations, either the pnative or the stranger who sojourns among you 27 (for the people of the land, who were before you, did all of these abominations, so that the land became unclean), 28 lest the land vomit you out when you make it unclean, as it vomited out the nation that was before you. 29 For everyone who does any of these abominations, the persons who do them shall be cut off from among their people. 30 qSo keep my charge never to practice rany of these abominable customs that were practiced before you, and never to make yourselves unclean by them: sI am the Lord your God.”




It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them. 22 Of them the proverbs are true: “A dog returns to its vomit,”[g] and, “A sow that is washed returns to her wallowing in the mud.”
The law and prophets were until John....I am under grace and the righteousness of Christ has been applied by faith without the works of the law......wake up!
 
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I am scanning CC from the Qantas Lounge in the Kingsford Smith Airport in Sydney Au right now.......have a nice 15 hour flight to Dallas at 130....it is 1204 Pm monday.....how are my migos doing on CC today.....hahha
 

graceNpeace

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2016
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I don't believe so but if they are then perhaps all denominations could be considered a cult.
In all seriousness you need to some research!

The SDA Church is not just "another denomination", but a little strange and eccentric!
Please understand that an Adventist looks at ANY other person who regards themselves as Christian and just sees a condemned apostate!
Most emphatically Adventists do not look at an Evangelical and see a Christian brother, far from it!
In fact, if you have the courage to really investigate the origin of the Adventist Church then you will discover the naked hatred they have for EVERY other Christian group!
This is not hyperbole - this can be independently verified!
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
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In all seriousness you need to some research!

The SDA Church is not just "another denomination", but a little strange and eccentric!
Please understand that an Adventist looks at ANY other person who regards themselves as Christian and just sees a condemned apostate!
Most emphatically Adventists do not look at an Evangelical and see a Christian brother, far from it!
In fact, if you have the courage to really investigate the origin of the Adventist Church then you will discover the naked hatred they have for EVERY other Christian group!
This is not hyperbole - this can be independently verified!
My wife is an SDA and I have attended many services with her. I know many members personally and have never heard anyone mentioned that those who are not SDA are apostates. Of course, your experience may show otherwise and I respect that.
 

graceNpeace

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2016
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My wife is an SDA and I have attended many services with her. I know many members personally and have never heard anyone mentioned that those who are not SDA are apostates. Of course, your experience may show otherwise and I respect that.
With the greatest respect this is an argument from silence...
I also have people close to me who are Adventists - and they, bar one or two - are also hopelessly ignorant of the REAL beliefs of their Church.

This is not the place to go into the details of SDA theology suffice to say that the fact that no one has mentioned stuff like this to you does not surprise me in the least.
It does not change the truth about their beliefs and doctrines though...
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
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With the greatest respect this is an argument from silence...
I also have people close to me who are Adventists - and they, bar one or two - are also hopelessly ignorant of the REAL beliefs of their Church.

This is not the place to go into the details of SDA theology suffice to say that the fact that no one has mentioned stuff like this to you does not surprise me in the least.
It does not change the truth about their beliefs and doctrines though...
What you say may very well be true. I was born and raised a Catholic and they get bad press too. Currently, I'm just a Christian and not officially affiliated with any denomination or church. Maybe my wife was just fortunate to have an understanding and loving congregation.
 

graceNpeace

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2016
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What you say may very well be true. I was born and raised a Catholic and they get bad press too. Currently, I'm just a Christian and not officially affiliated with any denomination or church. Maybe my wife was just fortunate to have an understanding and loving congregation.
Well, the vitriol the Adventists reserve for the RCC has to be seen to be believed...
 
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The law and prophets were until John....I am under grace and the righteousness of Christ has been applied by faith without the works of the law......wake up!
No Law of Life what so ever would be a two fold son of perdition.
Pretty sure God gave us a Two fold Torah of Spirit (life) multiplying the Blessings, And annulled the Torah of sin(death).

If anyone is a two fold son of perdition it is the very false prophet that teaches that every human being born here till the next generation has no goodness (torah of Spirit(Life) what so ever.

Perverting the Word of God to promote absolute lawlessness would only come From the Evil one who curses Yeshua.
 
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