Not By Works
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R
Haven't been reading the thread but saw BillG had posted so I thought I'd stick my head in.
Sanctification and justification happen at the exact same moment when you first believe and receive Christ.
You may think that's not right at first, but examine all the meanings of 'sanctification' and you'll see that what I say is true.
Sanctification and justification happen at the exact same moment when you first believe and receive Christ.
You may think that's not right at first, but examine all the meanings of 'sanctification' and you'll see that what I say is true.
R
That's how I understand it.
It's like taking a dirty plate and declaring, "this is now set apart to be used only for holidays. It will not be used for common purposes". Then we proceed to start scrubbing it to bring it up to the calling it has received.
Sanctification is, both, the setting apart of the vessel for a noble purpose, AND the process in which it now enters into to be readied for that purpose.
It's like taking a dirty plate and declaring, "this is now set apart to be used only for holidays. It will not be used for common purposes". Then we proceed to start scrubbing it to bring it up to the calling it has received.
Sanctification is, both, the setting apart of the vessel for a noble purpose, AND the process in which it now enters into to be readied for that purpose.
If they both happen at the same time that you believe in Jesus, then the definitions can't be right.
If you are justified, your status is declared holy and your legal status in the presence of Jesus is finished.
If you are sanctified, you grow and mature and walk with Jesus and as you do this you are sanctified.
If you are justified, you are holy, what if you do unholy things. A lot of unholy things, can you lose your justification?
If you are sanctified, you are on a walk with Jesus. But if you eventually reject Jesus and you cut off your walk with him, do you lose your sanctification?
I believe sanctification comes first. We walk with Jesus and learn his gospel and as we do this, we mature and grow in the gospel and become like him. Eventually, we are sanctified. Believing is just the beginning of being sanctified.
I believe justification is second. As we go through the steps of maturing and growing in the gospel, we eventually get to a place of holiness and we then are justified in our status as holy and then the grace of Jesus anoints us with that power to be in his presence and it is finished and our status is justified.
I would like to here more about how sanctification and justification work with each other. It is an interesting discussion.
If you are justified, your status is declared holy and your legal status in the presence of Jesus is finished.
If you are sanctified, you grow and mature and walk with Jesus and as you do this you are sanctified.
If you are justified, you are holy, what if you do unholy things. A lot of unholy things, can you lose your justification?
If you are sanctified, you are on a walk with Jesus. But if you eventually reject Jesus and you cut off your walk with him, do you lose your sanctification?
I believe sanctification comes first. We walk with Jesus and learn his gospel and as we do this, we mature and grow in the gospel and become like him. Eventually, we are sanctified. Believing is just the beginning of being sanctified.
I believe justification is second. As we go through the steps of maturing and growing in the gospel, we eventually get to a place of holiness and we then are justified in our status as holy and then the grace of Jesus anoints us with that power to be in his presence and it is finished and our status is justified.
I would like to here more about how sanctification and justification work with each other. It is an interesting discussion.
PSEUDO = FALSE
CHRISTIAN = CHRISTIAN
So any teaching which contradicts or perverts the Gospel and true Bible doctrine is False Christianity. There are many brands of pseudo-Christian cults. Cults generally revolve around the false teachings of one man or woman, but become accepted as Gospel truth. For example Charles Taze Russel and his Jehovah's Witnesses.
CHRISTIAN = CHRISTIAN
So any teaching which contradicts or perverts the Gospel and true Bible doctrine is False Christianity. There are many brands of pseudo-Christian cults. Cults generally revolve around the false teachings of one man or woman, but become accepted as Gospel truth. For example Charles Taze Russel and his Jehovah's Witnesses.
Is this descriptive?
And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 2 “Speak to the people of Israel and say to them, qI am the Lord your God. 3 rYou shall not do as they do in the land of Egypt, where you lived, and syou shall not do as they do in the land of Canaan, to which I am bringing you. You shall not walk in their statutes. 4 tYou shall follow my rules1 and keep my statutes and walk in them. qI am the Lord your God. 5 tYou shall therefore keep my statutes and my rules; uif a person does them, he shall live by them: I am the Lord.
6 “None of you shall approach any one of his close relatives to uncover nakedness. I am the Lord. 7 vYou shall not uncover the nakedness of your father, which is the nakedness of your mother; she is your mother, you shall not uncover her nakedness. 8 wYou shall not uncover the nakedness of your father’s wife; it is your father’s nakedness. 9 xYou shall not uncover the nakedness of your sister, your father’s daughter or your mother’s daughter, whether brought up in the family or in another home. 10 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your son’s daughter or of your daughter’s daughter, for their nakedness is your own nakedness. 11 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father’s wife’s daughter, brought up in your father’s family, since she is your sister. 12 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father’s sister; she is your father’s relative. 13 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your mother’s sister, for she is your mother’s relative. 14 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father’s brother, that is, you shall not approach his wife; she is your aunt. 15 yYou shall not uncover the nakedness of your daughter-in-law; she is your son’s wife, you shall not uncover her nakedness. 16 zYou shall not uncover the nakedness of your brother’s wife; it is your brother’s nakedness. 17 You shall not uncover the nakedness of a woman and of her daughter, and you shall not take her son’s daughter or her daughter’s daughter to uncover her nakedness; they are relatives; it is depravity. 18 And you shall not take a woman as a arival wife to her sister, uncovering her nakedness bwhile her sister is still alive.
19 c“You shall not approach a woman to uncover her nakedness while she is in her menstrual uncleanness. 20 dAnd you shall not lie sexually with your neighbor’s wife and so make yourself unclean with her. 21 You shall not give any of your children to eoffer them2 to fMolech, and so gprofane the name of your God: I am the Lord. 22 hYou shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination. 23 iAnd you shall not lie with any animal and so make yourself unclean with it, neither shall any woman give herself to an animal to lie with it: it is jperversion.
24 k“Do not make yourselves unclean by any of these things, lfor by all these the nations I am driving out before you have become unclean, 25 and the mland became unclean, so that I punished its iniquity, and the land nvomited out its inhabitants. 26 But oyou shall keep my statutes and my rules and do none of these abominations, either the pnative or the stranger who sojourns among you 27 (for the people of the land, who were before you, did all of these abominations, so that the land became unclean), 28 lest the land vomit you out when you make it unclean, as it vomited out the nation that was before you. 29 For everyone who does any of these abominations, the persons who do them shall be cut off from among their people. 30 qSo keep my charge never to practice rany of these abominable customs that were practiced before you, and never to make yourselves unclean by them: sI am the Lord your God.”
It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them. 22 Of them the proverbs are true: “A dog returns to its vomit,”[g] and, “A sow that is washed returns to her wallowing in the mud.”
And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 2 “Speak to the people of Israel and say to them, qI am the Lord your God. 3 rYou shall not do as they do in the land of Egypt, where you lived, and syou shall not do as they do in the land of Canaan, to which I am bringing you. You shall not walk in their statutes. 4 tYou shall follow my rules1 and keep my statutes and walk in them. qI am the Lord your God. 5 tYou shall therefore keep my statutes and my rules; uif a person does them, he shall live by them: I am the Lord.
6 “None of you shall approach any one of his close relatives to uncover nakedness. I am the Lord. 7 vYou shall not uncover the nakedness of your father, which is the nakedness of your mother; she is your mother, you shall not uncover her nakedness. 8 wYou shall not uncover the nakedness of your father’s wife; it is your father’s nakedness. 9 xYou shall not uncover the nakedness of your sister, your father’s daughter or your mother’s daughter, whether brought up in the family or in another home. 10 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your son’s daughter or of your daughter’s daughter, for their nakedness is your own nakedness. 11 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father’s wife’s daughter, brought up in your father’s family, since she is your sister. 12 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father’s sister; she is your father’s relative. 13 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your mother’s sister, for she is your mother’s relative. 14 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father’s brother, that is, you shall not approach his wife; she is your aunt. 15 yYou shall not uncover the nakedness of your daughter-in-law; she is your son’s wife, you shall not uncover her nakedness. 16 zYou shall not uncover the nakedness of your brother’s wife; it is your brother’s nakedness. 17 You shall not uncover the nakedness of a woman and of her daughter, and you shall not take her son’s daughter or her daughter’s daughter to uncover her nakedness; they are relatives; it is depravity. 18 And you shall not take a woman as a arival wife to her sister, uncovering her nakedness bwhile her sister is still alive.
19 c“You shall not approach a woman to uncover her nakedness while she is in her menstrual uncleanness. 20 dAnd you shall not lie sexually with your neighbor’s wife and so make yourself unclean with her. 21 You shall not give any of your children to eoffer them2 to fMolech, and so gprofane the name of your God: I am the Lord. 22 hYou shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination. 23 iAnd you shall not lie with any animal and so make yourself unclean with it, neither shall any woman give herself to an animal to lie with it: it is jperversion.
24 k“Do not make yourselves unclean by any of these things, lfor by all these the nations I am driving out before you have become unclean, 25 and the mland became unclean, so that I punished its iniquity, and the land nvomited out its inhabitants. 26 But oyou shall keep my statutes and my rules and do none of these abominations, either the pnative or the stranger who sojourns among you 27 (for the people of the land, who were before you, did all of these abominations, so that the land became unclean), 28 lest the land vomit you out when you make it unclean, as it vomited out the nation that was before you. 29 For everyone who does any of these abominations, the persons who do them shall be cut off from among their people. 30 qSo keep my charge never to practice rany of these abominable customs that were practiced before you, and never to make yourselves unclean by them: sI am the Lord your God.”
It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them. 22 Of them the proverbs are true: “A dog returns to its vomit,”[g] and, “A sow that is washed returns to her wallowing in the mud.”
ABSOLUTELY.
BEING SAVED, IS WHAT HE DID FOR ME, AS WHILE I WAS STILL AN ENEMY OF GOD. PURELY BECAUSE OF HIS MERCY AND HIS GRACE HE CHOSE TO SAVE ME.
MY LOVE FOR HIM AND OTHER IS WHAT I DO AFTER HE SAVED ME. AND I CANNOT EVEN TAKE CREDIT FOR THAT LOVE, BECAUSE IT IS GOD'S LOVE IN MY HEART, THAT MOTIVATES ME TO LOVE HIM AND OTHERS. ROM. 5:5
The most famous of the pseudo-christian cults are Jehovah Witnesses, and Mormons. There are several other cults in the psuedo-christian cults, and I can recommend KINGDOM OF THE CULTS, by Walter Martin.
https://www.amazon.com/Kingdom-Cult...eywords=kingdom+of+the+cults+by+walter+martin
They all have what I call the BAIT and SWITCH tactics when them come Proselytising. They will tell you what you think is Good Sound Doctrine, THEN after they get you hooked, they will tell you, "That really isn't what it means." And proceed to lead you astray into FALSE DOCTRINE. They are FAMOUS for using Christian terminology, but IT MEANS SOMETHING TOTALLY DIFFERENT TO THEM, than what we mean by the same Term or Phrase means to us. Baby Christians are especially vulnerable to those kind of lies that lead people astray, because they sound Christian, and the Baby Christians do not know there Bible well enough, yet, to determine Truth from Error.
https://www.amazon.com/Kingdom-Cult...eywords=kingdom+of+the+cults+by+walter+martin
They all have what I call the BAIT and SWITCH tactics when them come Proselytising. They will tell you what you think is Good Sound Doctrine, THEN after they get you hooked, they will tell you, "That really isn't what it means." And proceed to lead you astray into FALSE DOCTRINE. They are FAMOUS for using Christian terminology, but IT MEANS SOMETHING TOTALLY DIFFERENT TO THEM, than what we mean by the same Term or Phrase means to us. Baby Christians are especially vulnerable to those kind of lies that lead people astray, because they sound Christian, and the Baby Christians do not know there Bible well enough, yet, to determine Truth from Error.
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But, brothers, I do not want you to go on being ignorant about the things of the Spirit. 2 You know that when you were pagans, no matter how you felt you were being led, you were being led astray to idols, which can’t speak at all. 3 Therefore, I want to make it clear to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God ever says, “Yeshua is cursed!” and no one can say, “Yeshua is Lord,” except by the Ruach HaKodesh.
It sounded as if you were already wonderfully made with Torah of Spirit(life)?
Therefore, there is no longer any condemnation awaiting those who are in union with the Messiah Yeshua. 2 Why? Because the Torah of the Spirit, which produces this life in union with Messiah Yeshua, has set me free from the “Torah” of sin and death. 3 For what the Torah could not do by itself, because it lacked the power to make the old nature cooperate, God did by sending his own Son as a human being with a nature like our own sinful one [but without sin]. God did this in order to deal with sin, and in so doing he executed the punishment against sin in human nature, 4 so that the just requirement of the Torah might be fulfilled in us who do not run our lives according to what our old nature wants but according to what the Spirit wants...
Similarly, the Spirit helps us in our weakness; for we don’t know how to pray the way we should. But the Spirit himself pleads on our behalf with groanings too deep for words; 27 and the one who searches hearts knows exactly what the Spirit is thinking, because his pleadings for God’s people accord with God’s will. 28 Furthermore, we know that God causes everything to work together for the good of those who love God and are called in accordance with his purpose;
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