Not By Works

[Shamah]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 10:16, "And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to My voice. So there will be one flock, one Shepherd (4166 – poimén)."

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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 4:23-26, “But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers shall worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father also does seek such to worship Him. YHWH is Spirit, and those who worship Him need to worship in spirit and truth. The woman said to Him, “I know that Messiah is coming, the One who is called Christ. When that One comes, He shall tell us all things.” [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]said to her, “I who am speaking to you is He.”[/FONT]
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[ElAmor]

So you will not mind if I do not answer your questions, since you refuse to answer mine. You just show what a hypocrite you are to post Scripture about not judging while YOU go about judging people. Are you blind to that as well?

--I was thinking of ignoring your provocative way of discussing something since you were the one who commented on my post and when i warned you of people pretending to be friends (which causes you not to see their faults and for them not to see yours), you instantly called me a hypocrite.

--If it is JUDGING to warn you about people pretending to be your friends and thus make me a hypocrite then what do you call someone hating another for telling the TRUTH and then calling him a hypocrite?

Romans 2:1-11 You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. Now we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. So when you, a mere man, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment? Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness leads you toward repentance? But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. God “will give to each person according to what he has done.” To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. For God does not show favoritism.

--So who are those pretending to be your friends?

--They are those whom you defend because they defend you even if they know that you are wrong.

Isaiah 5:20-24 Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter. Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes and clever in their own sight. Woe to those who are heroes at drinking wine and champions at mixing drinks, who acquit the guilty for a bribe, but deny justice to the innocent. Therefore, as tongues of fire lick up straw and as dry grass sinks down in the flames, so their roots will decay and their flowers blow away like dust; for they have rejected the law of the Lord Almighty and spurned the word of the Holy One of Israel.

Malachi 2:17 You have wearied the Lord with your words. “How have we wearied him?” you ask. By saying, “All who do evil are good in the eyes of the Lord, and he is pleased with them” or “Where is the God of justice?”

Malachi 3:13-18 “You have said harsh things against me,” says the Lord. “Yet you ask, ‘What have we said against you?’ “You have said, ‘It is futile to serve God. What did we gain by carrying out his requirements and going about like mourners before the Lord Almighty? But now we call the arrogant blessed. Certainly the evildoers prosper, and even those who challenge God escape.’” Then those who feared the Lord talked with each other, and the Lord listened and heard. A scroll of remembrance was written in his presence concerning those who feared the Lord and honored his name. “They will be mine,” says the Lord Almighty, “in the day when I make up my treasured possession. I will spare them, just as in compassion a man spares his son who serves him. And you will again see the distinction between the righteous and the wicked, between those who serve God and those who do not.



Romans 3:3-4 What if some did not have faith? Will their lack of faith nullify God’s faithfulness? Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written: “So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge.”

 

[LightLoveHope]

I hear you Ben , and after hearing a sermon on faith without works is dead , I can understand this tonight...

You see faith without works is dead...A few days ago I was in the middle of having a heart surgery , but due to an untold problem they retracted and I will have surgery at a latter date...Now while this was all before me I was resting and trusting in God , I was reading Scripture and speaking it out loud over my life , " Your will be done Father , whatever your will "...So in these months building up to my op , I was living in my faith, my faith was alive not dead , and what happened in the middle of my surgery was shown a problem the doctors never saw , so they stopped , withdrew and have made another date so they can sort two problems in one , my living faith got me through it......

Now tonight my faith was dead , why , because I turned to alcohol , I drank through my nerves , I drank because of the aftermath of what I went through these past days , I put my faith in drink to calm my self , that is dead faith , and now I have repented...James is saying our faith is dead when we put our faith into dead works , now my faith is alive in Christ where it should of been tonight , not in my self looking beyond Christ , anything we put our faith in is dead unless it is in Christ Jesus , so my faith in myself tonight is dead , but thank God I am in Christ Jesus who has forgiven me , my faith in my own works tonight was dead , but now as I type , I am typing through faith in my LORD Jesus Christ , my faith is now alive Praise God \/xox...

Gob bless you Rosemary.

What you have gone through, is our spiritual reality with the Lord.
We are weak, tossed around, looking for stability within, and need real faith and hope.
Jesus is always there, saying I can provide, yet we so often go for the worlds solutions.

Jesus is calling us, saying love does conquer all, purity is not a nice to have, it is life,
it is the outworking of truth over worldly passions and dreams.

In our church we have lots of people in their 80's, 90's. Some slowly slipping into dementia.
A few cancer cases appear and takes them in a few weeks. This puts a very different focus on
what matters, and worldly passions are way down the list, and realizing Christs love is at
the top. Another group have MS or Parkinsons disease.

This is a different world emotionally and spiritually to some here and their discussions about
salvation, and abiding in sin, and being ok with it.

People lie very easily about me being a sinless perfectionist. I am someone just seeking the
truth and asking why does Paul call us Holy and call us to purity.
Because that is what we are, with weaknesses and failings which we need to work on.

I grew up in a family that did not know how to love, to express, to forgive, to give space to
another and then know how to take pain, bring it to the Lord and return in love. But now
I do. It is like night and day, life and loneliness, a cup unknown to a cup full.

I have wept, felt alone, rejected, cast out and come back. I have had my times of anger,
and my times of great joy. So in all this I know the fruit of the sermon on the mount, and
I know it is life, built on a solid rock. So be encouraged, the Lord is with His people and will
bring them to Himself. Amen.

 

[preacher4truth]

Not arguing the importance of doctrine: There can be no salvation without at least a basic understanding of Christian doctrine: that is - one must know that Jesus is God and that He died on the cross, etc.

But character is also very important and critical: When a person is saved there will be a change in character. But just because a person appears "meek" does not make them a Christian, either.

But there are many who have a "correct doctrine", but are not saved. Their character may be atrocious.

I would argue that character is just as critical, or perhaps more critical, in determining the new birth than is doctrine.

Having said that, only God determines who is born again or not: so what am I trying to say! LOL!

I've seen way more wolves disguised as sheep and ministers of lies garbed as those of ministers of truth than I've seen any true Gospel preacher in your scenario. Jesus seems to have set this true precedent in Matthew 7 as a warning to the sheep.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Hi Stunned,

What you are talking about is not anger but pride.
If someone is rude to you, the rudeness hurts ones pride that says I should be respected
but this person is not giving me respect, and I am hurt, to which I respond in anger.

So the problem is not the anger, but the pride that got hurt, and the desire to not turn the
other cheek and to resist the evil person. If you learn the meaning of this, then anger will
not be such a big issue for you.

Grace and peace to you in Christ Jesus.

By the way, in God I have good reason to be angry at non-believers, because they desire to
kill my Lord, and will desire to kill me. But because sin drives their life, my anger disappears
into forgiveness and love. How can I be angry at something they cannot control and are slaves
to? And what pride do I have that I need to defend, because in Christ I am everything and to the
world nothing. I do not hold it against them that they hate the light and the love of God, it is in
their nature to be like this.

I feel this is just semantics. Hurt feelings are caused by pride and pride is the opposite of humility. it leads to murder. So I don't know if picking the hairs off of frogs does one any good. If pride leads to murder (and it certainly does) then it's doubly bad.

And knowing that it stemmed from pride does not fix anyones problem either. That's just knowledge, not change. Any change has to come from Him.

And change wont come without truthfulness. Admitting we are murderers is truth and it is telling the truth that begins to set us free from it.

 

[ElAmor]

I feel this is just semantics. Hurt feelings are caused by pride and pride is the opposite of humility. it leads to murder. So I don't know if picking the hairs off of frogs does one any good. If pride leads to murder (and it certainly does) then it's doubly bad.

And knowing that it stemmed from pride does not fix anyones problem either. That's just knowledge, not change. Any change has to come from Him.

And change wont come without truthfulness. Admitting we are murderers is truth and it is telling the truth that begins to set us free from it.

I love you sis but here's what is true;

1 John 3:13-15 Do not be surprised, my brothers, if the world hates you. We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love our brothers. Anyone who does not love remains in death. Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life in him.

 

[JaumeJ]

When we love our brethren we will share truth with them, and the truth is, faith without the works graced us by God is dead, worthless for it is not faith at all.

To say we love our brethren is one thing, ad to share truth always is emphasizing love, that is sharing what is given us in heart, soul and mind.

Only God knows the hearts of men.


Beware of disobedience being taught cloaked in the disguise of teaching of works.
Without works given by grace to each of us, there is no faith.

Beware of hateful attitudes being cloaked in the disguise of words of love. Love is not words alone but the content of the heart, soul and mind.

No one can earn salvation, but by disobedience and failing to do good works all could lose it.

Learn the difference between doing works given by the grace of God and thinking you are earning salvation........do not teach against God's gifts of works nor against obeying Him for He considers disobedience as witchcraft.

Jesus teaches us all about the above.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

I love you sis but here's what is true;

1 John 3:13-15 Do not be surprised, my brothers, if the world hates you. We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love our brothers. Anyone who does not love remains in death. Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life in him.

A mans pride does not die overnight. He is not born again fullgrown. He moves into becoming more and more like His Lord as his mind is renewed more and more by Him.

 

[LightLoveHope]

I feel this is just semantics. Hurt feelings are caused by pride and pride is the opposite of humility. it leads to murder. So I don't know if picking the hairs off of frogs does one any good. If pride leads to murder (and it certainly does) then it's doubly bad.

And knowing that it stemmed from pride does not fix anyones problem either. That's just knowledge, not change. Any change has to come from Him.

And change wont come without truthfulness. Admitting we are murderers is truth and it is telling the truth that begins to set us free from it.

Hi Stunned,

As sinners we are capable of the most horrendous sins possible, though we often
like to believe we are civilised and nice.

Fixing people is not Jesus's aim. The more I look at the Lord and His word, communion
with Him makes us one with Him. We are not a broken machine that has a missing part.
We are a dying being without the source of life. Righteousness or doing the right thing
in some peoples eyes are actions, which if done without sin, would make us perfect.

But Jesus is saying being, dwelling, knowing, God the creator, praising, praying, exalting,
repenting, confessing, learning, obeying makes us into His people. So sin becomes something other
than we are, a potential but something we do not desire.

Someone put it like this when they had an affair. If they knew how much it hurt their
partner, they would never have got involved.

Esau sold his birth right for a bowl of porridge. This sums up sin, and the compromise
of that which is priceless and that which gained, which has so little value.

So you appear to think I do not know I have been a sinner, capable of every sin, but
I know this and have repented of such a thing. Love in Christ changes us, makes us
Holy, pure, with a right standing in God. Can you accept Jesus washes you clean, though
you need to learn to walk in it? It is why the thief on the cross was made whole.
It is also why some are blessed in the Holy Spirit, exercise gifts and ministry yet later fall
into sin, and fall away. God honors communion in the moment irrespective of the future.
Until Judas fell, he was treated as a disciple and equal with the others.

 

[MichaelOwen]

A mans pride does not die overnight. He is not born again fullgrown. He moves into becoming more and more like His Lord as his mind is renewed more and more by Him.

Man's pride is definitely not something that just dies overnight, I am a personal testament to that. Sometimes in life, even if a person is following Jesus, that person can still have pride and it can wreck not only their testimony, but their very lives, and they find themselves out of fellowship with God. I've been there, and in ways, I am still there. It's a battle every day

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Man's pride is definitely not something that just dies overnight, I am a personal testament to that. Sometimes in life, even if a person is following Jesus, that person can still have pride and it can wreck not only their testimony, but their very lives, and they find themselves out of fellowship with God. I've been there, and in ways, I am still there. It's a battle every day

I thought I was not prideful. Thought I was very humble. Took quite a tumble to get me to see I was prideful still. But I wasn't out of fellowship with God. He still communed with me often. In fact, if He hadn't, I'd have never seen it. I'd have gone on thinking I was quite humble and everyone else was awful.

 

[LightLoveHope]

I love you sis but here's what is true;

1 John 3:13-15 Do not be surprised, my brothers, if the world hates you. We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love our brothers. Anyone who does not love remains in death. Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life in him.

It is an interesting point. Hatred is close to loathing and anger.
Now how many "believers" confess they get so angry with other believers for sharing scripture
and claiming biblical positions, but they show such antipathy, it should make them wonder what
dwells within.

Some are very rude, antagonistic, responding to a reasonable point with their own
point as if the original point did not exist or was relevant. This tactic takes some
getting used to, because it is trying to annoy, and then step back claiming innocence.

I cannot be angry or hate those who sincerely believe in free grace, because I know why
they do it, and how it makes sense. It does not threaten me or the Kingdom, it is just
another way of excusing failure and sin. It has some odd implications, and some ethics
that are just evil.

So I do wonder at those who do not know love, do not see their own emotions are just
reflecting back when they read it into responses. But when people openly confess they
have to stop typing or interacting because they are so angry or believe fulfilling Christs
work by walking in His ways is blasphemy, it is a little obvious who knows grace, truth and
love and who does not.

Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.
John 14:27

Now some will think this is being self-righteous, rather than stating the truth
and the reality in ones heart. I just wish all could know the love of Christ filling
them so that no matter what others do, they can praise the Lord. This is the
Kingdom, eternal, another place, a place that will never fade or grow old, Amen.

 

[LightLoveHope]

Man's pride is definitely not something that just dies overnight, I am a personal testament to that. Sometimes in life, even if a person is following Jesus, that person can still have pride and it can wreck not only their testimony, but their very lives, and they find themselves out of fellowship with God. I've been there, and in ways, I am still there. It's a battle every day

This reality bring me always to see this is a walk in a direction towards eternity,
which is the point. Each battle finishes with us walking in a direction. Jesus calls
us onwards the world backwards. All we can say is we stand today in His grace,
and with support and ministry till we die and go to be with Him, Amen.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

It is an interesting point. Hatred is close to loathing and anger.
Now how many "believers" confess they get so angry with other believers for sharing scripture
and claiming biblical positions, but they show such antipathy, it should make them wonder what
dwells within.

Some are very rude, antagonistic, responding to a reasonable point with their own
point as if the original point did not exist or was relevant. This tactic takes some
getting used to, because it is trying to annoy, and then step back claiming innocence.

I cannot be angry or hate those who sincerely believe in free grace, because I know why
they do it, and how it makes sense. It does not threaten me or the Kingdom, it is just
another way of excusing failure and sin. It has some odd implications, and some ethics
that are just evil.

So I do wonder at those who do not know love, do not see their own emotions are just
reflecting back when they read it into responses. But when people openly confess they
have to stop typing or interacting because they are so angry or believe fulfilling Christs
work by walking in His ways is blasphemy, it is a little obvious who knows grace, truth and
love and who does not.

Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.
John 14:27

Now some will think this is being self-righteous, rather than stating the truth
and the reality in ones heart. I just wish all could know the love of Christ filling
them so that no matter what others do, they can praise the Lord. This is the
Kingdom, eternal, another place, a place that will never fade or grow old, Amen.

Hatred isn't close to loathing and anger. It IS loathing and anger. It is murder in the heart, in spirit.

 

[LightLoveHope]

I thought I was not prideful. Thought I was very humble. Took quite a tumble to get me to see I was prideful still. But I wasn't out of fellowship with God. He still communed with me often. In fact, if He hadn't, I'd have never seen it. I'd have gone on thinking I was quite humble and everyone else was awful.

This makes me laugh at myself.
I used to think others would benefit from my sharing. I have come to realize most
have more to offer than me, and are better and more faithful, true and resilient that I am,
and I should just try and encourage them more. The awful one is now mostly myself as
I get things wrong, say the wrong things, and people are upset. I am trying to listen more
feel and see what matters to others, and help them where I can.

Most of what I actually do is probably stupid and impetious, like sharing here, taking on
impossible questions and just believing there is value in trying to encompass answers.

But in these things I have found such blessing and ministry to my heart, I just gain
more enthusiasm to bring glory to my Lord and wonder at the truths He shares. Amen

I have also learnt that some who appear to be brothers and sisters in Christ desire only
to condemn and destroy, to oppose and block, to ridicule and tear down, which in the
end means they do not know who Christ is at all.

 

[LightLoveHope]

Hatred isn't close to loathing and anger. It IS loathing and anger. It is murder in the heart, in spirit.

Hello Stunned,

You do exagerate and go for impact. People loath many things, not necessarily associated with
people but attitudes. They also get angry at certain statements or approaches.

It is a big leap to say someone wants to murder a punk rocker, or someone who puts pins in their
face, or talks rudely to everyone. Some get angry for instance at people who carry guns and feel
it is their right to blow people away. They are not wanting to kill them, in fact the opposite.
And anger might well be the appropriate response to someone who carries a gun in an inappropriate
situation.

But I would observe for you any anger is murder, even if not aimed at individuals, or am I getting
you wrong?

 

[LightLoveHope]

Hatred isn't close to loathing and anger. It IS loathing and anger. It is murder in the heart, in spirit.

I hope you are not getting angry at me, because that would mean you want to kill me?

 

[gb9]

I hope you are not getting angry at me, because that would mean you want to kill me?

you know,...............nevermind. this is not even.........wow

 

[LightLoveHope]

I've seen way more wolves disguised as sheep and ministers of lies garbed as those of ministers of truth than I've seen any true Gospel preacher in your scenario. Jesus seems to have set this true precedent in Matthew 7 as a warning to the sheep.

Wolves desire to rip apart and destroy their prey, sheep wish to bring love and healing to those
in need. I trust in Christ you wish to bring His word and healing to others, to see their problems
and issues, then let the Holy Spirit lead you into the right words.

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable--if anything is excellent or praiseworthy--think about such things.
Whatever you have learned or received or heard from me, or seen in me--put it into practice. And the God of peace will be with you.
Philippians 4:8-9

 

[LightLoveHope]

you know,...............nevermind. this is not even.........wow

??? Have you something to share on anger ..... I am all ears, dear contributor.