GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

[lightbearer]

Originally Posted by posthuman
Not leave the others undone?

So yes, wear tzitzit?

According to your line of thought; What about bestiality? It is not mentioned in the New Testament so according to your theology it is acceptable behavior with GOD now because it was not mentioned.

 

[lightbearer]

Originally Posted by posthuman
Wear tzitzit or go to hell yes or no?

No; All the Laws that made Israel standout physically have been done away with in Christ. For We now have put on Christ though Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek we are all one in Christ. He in us, GOD in Him, that we may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.



Besides that we now do not need to wear reminders of the Law physically or bind copies of them to us anymore. We are a new creation in Christ Jesus; behold all things are new and of God. HE has put HIS Law in our hearts, minds and mouths that we do it. Of his own will begat he us with to the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

 

[Jackson123]

No dear, that is not what Gods word says. You will have no rest if you are breaking God's Commandments.

Isaiah 57
20, But the wicked (SINNERS) are like the troubled sea, when it cannot rest, whose waters cast up mire and dirt.
21, There is no peace, said my God, to the wicked.

1 John 2
3, And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4, He that said, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN have no REST and will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

.......................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).

Sure, no rest if we breaking the law

but the way you observe sabbath is breaking the law, dear.

you disparaging the gift of rest from Jesus. Jesus update or fulfill the law of rest, and you not follow either OT sabbath law, nor Jesus rest law. Repent before to late dear.

 

[PS]

Yes Really. The Word for Sabbath is plural in that text. Verse 16 starts with the word therefore. Which keeps it in context to verse 14

Having blotted out the handwriting to the ordinances that is against us, that was contrary to us, and he hath taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

It is the Sabbaths that were of the handwriting to the ordinances. The ordinances are the Decalogue and those Laws contained in the Book of the Law that showed us what righteousness is. The handwriting to them that were against us, were those laws pertaining to when we sinned not those laws that showed us what righteousness is.

Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
(Col 2:16 KJV)


Yes, it is plural, notice the 's' on the end of days. The Jews kept all the Sabbaths, and the message is to take no notice of anyone who might judge them in meat, drink, or holydays. The same goes for the Gentiles, neither should the Jews judge them for eating pork or keeping their Sabbath.

Quite simply it's not unlawful to do those things. Leave people alone, as long as they love and follow God then let them get on with it in peace and quite, without judging or hassling anyone.

 

[LoveGodForever]

Sure, no rest if we breaking the law but the way you observe sabbath is breaking the law, dear. you disparaging the gift of rest from Jesus. Jesus update or fulfill the law of rest, and you not follow either OT sabbath law, nor Jesus rest law. Repent before to late dear.

Good luck trying to tell that to God come judgement day dear.

Isaiah 57
20, But the wicked (SINNERS) are like the troubled sea, when it cannot rest, whose waters cast up mire and dirt.
21, There is no peace, said my God, to the wicked.

1 John 2
3, And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4, He that said, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN have no REST and will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

.......................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).

 

[SavdbyGracethtwrks]

Here's my question for anyone who says fulfilled is to put and end to, and that the Son came to do away with the Father' commands, and please think before you answer. These are commands given from the Most High. Do you really want to call them a burden?
Ok, so in these following verses was the Messiah: A- lying, B- delusional, C- not understanding what would take place, or D: telling the TRUTH?
You can only come to 1 of these answers, but you can't say telling the Truth but he really didn't mean it. So which is it, please feel free to explain your answer.

Matthew 5:17
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

 

[lightbearer]

Originally Posted by PS You are wrong I am afraid to say. You are interpreting scripture as you think it is and not as it actually is. Consequently you have a fabrication

Originally Posted by lightbearer
No it is the context of the passage "As" is direct Comparison. So it is A Ceasing from work like GOD did from HIS. It is the calling to those who entered in their rest (the Gospel rest in Jesus in GOD) to cease from their work AS GOD did. GOD ceased from HIS work on the Seventh Day. So we in harmony with Christ and the FATHER cease from our work on the Seventh Day which is the Day HE hallowed and blessed. If HE hallowed a Day who are we to unhallow it?

Mounce writes in His concise Greek English dictionary in regards to the word rest in verse 9:
G4520
σαββατισμός sabbatismos 1x
properly a keeping of a sabbath;


"Remaineth" in the KJV in the Greek is define as follows by Mounce :
G620
ἀπολείπω apoleipō 7x
to leave, leave behind;

It is in the presence tense. The rendering of the Greek to English looks something like this, "therefore is being left a Sabbath keeping to the people of GOD"

So What is the Sabbath keeping?

GOD tells us in verse 10, "For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his."



"As" is direct Comparison. So it is A Ceasing from work like GOD did from HIS. It is the calling to those who entered in their rest (the Gospel rest in Jesus in GOD) to cease from their work AS GOD did. GOD ceased from HIS work on the Seventh Day. So we in harmony with Christ and the FATHER cease from our work on the Seventh Day which is the Day HE hallowed and blessed.


So How do we keep the Sabbath? We cease from Work as GOD did from HIS on the Seventh Day which is the Sabbath. That is what GOD did and that is what those who receive the Gospel are called to do. And now because of Christ's reconciliation through the Gospel we now rest from our physically labors on the Sabbath acceptably. Our presence is not offense as was before due to unbelief (obstinate stiff neck rebellion)

For the Day is a Hallowed and blessed. GOD had made it so and so it will be through out eternity.

And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one Sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
(Isa 66:23 KJV) .

"Ceased from his own works," i.e. dead, .

No Your adding things that are not there and you are not addressing the points of the posts you are responding to. The text says, "As GOD did from HIS; Period. The ceasing of GOD is mentioned earlier, so the context is clear.

For HE (GOD) spake in a certain place (the Decalogue) of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. And in this again (the Decalogue), If they shall enter into my rest (receive the Gospel). Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein (the Gospel), and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief (obstinate stiff neck rebellion)

(Heb 4:4-6)

 

[gb9]

Good luck trying to tell that to God come judgement day dear.

Isaiah 57
20, But the wicked (SINNERS) are like the troubled sea, when it cannot rest, whose waters cast up mire and dirt.
21, There is no peace, said my God, to the wicked.

1 John 2
3, And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4, He that said, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN have no REST and will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

.......................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).

in 1st John., John was not talking about the 10 when he mentioned commands. you, as usual. quote chapter 2. in chapter 3 of the same letter, the same guy who wrote was is in chapter 2 writes the commands are believe in the name of the Son and love one another. nothing about Sabbath.

 

[lightbearer]

Originally Posted by posthuman
Not leave the others undone?

So yes, wear tzitzit?

No; All the Laws that made Israel standout physically have been done away with in Christ. For We now have put on Christ though Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek we are all one in Christ. He in us, GOD in Him, that we may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.



Besides that we now do not need to wear reminders of the Law physically or bind copies of them to us anymore. We are a new creation in Christ Jesus; behold all things are new and of God. HE has put HIS Law in our hearts, minds and mouths that we do it. Of his own will begat he us with to the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

We have a New Garment to which we all wear; Christ Jesus our Lord.

But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds (sinning); And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him: Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

(Heb 3:6 Eph 2:14-19 20 Gal 3:26-29;Col 3:9-11 KJV)

The Garment; Christ; His Word; the Faith, the Law in our hearts and in our minds, and in our mouths, that we do it. For it is HE that works in us both to will and do HIS good pleasure. It is HIS righteousness through HIS indwelling. For we are the Temple of GOD the Body of Christ; HE doeth the work.

 

[Shamah]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Yahanan /John 2:3-7, “And by this we know that we know Him, if we guard His commands. The one who says, “I know Him,” and does not guard His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever guards His Word, truly the love of Yah has been perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. The one who says he stays in Him ought himself also to walk, even as He walked. Beloved, I write no fresh command to you, but an old command which you have had from the beginning. The old command is the Word which you heard from the beginning.”[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Genesis 1:1, “In the beginning Elohim created the heavens and the earth.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 2:24, "As for you, let that stay in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning stays in you, you also shall stay in the Son and in the Father."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Deuteronomy 6:5, “And you shall love [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]your Strength with all your heart, and with all your being, and with all your might.”[/FONT][/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Leviticus 19:18, ‘Do not take vengeance or bear a grudge against the children of your people. And you shall love your neighbor as yourself. I am [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif].”[/FONT]

 

[mailmandan]

in 1st John., John was not talking about the 10 when he mentioned commands. you, as usual. quote chapter 2. in chapter 3 of the same letter, the same guy who wrote was is in chapter 2 writes the commands are believe in the name of the Son and love one another. nothing about Sabbath.

Amen brother! We need to interpret the meaning of John's writings by comparing them with the other writings of John. The Greek word for "commandments" in Revelation 14:12 is {entole} which means "an order, command, charge, precept, injunction." The same word is used repeatedly in the writings of John to refer to the instructions of Christ. John uses an entirely different Greek word in his writings when he refers to the Ten Commandments: nomas. Example below:

Did not Moses give you the law {nomos}, and [yet] none of you keepeth the law {nomos}? Why go ye about to kill me? (John 7:19; Jesus is referring to the 6th commandment "Thou shalt not kill"--Exodus 20:13) According to John, the number one commandment {entolae} of Jesus to the Apostles was not Sabbath-worship, but for them to love one another:

A new commandment {entolae} I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. (John 13:34) This is my commandment {entolae}, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. (John 15:12)

*Notice how John refers to the "commandments" of God in his letter:

By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments {entolas}. For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments {entolas}; and His commandments {entolae} are not burdensome. (1 John 5:2-3) Earlier in the same letter John tells us exactly what the "commandments" of God are:

Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, [then] have we confidence toward God. And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His [God's] commandments {entolas} and do the things that are pleasing in His sight. This is His [God's] commandment {entolae}, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He [God] commanded {entolaen} us. The one who keeps His [God's] commandments {entolas} abides in Him.. (1 John 3:21-24)

*From this we can see that in John's writings the "commandments" of God are:

To believe in Jesus Christ
To love one another

 

[lightbearer]

Originally Posted by lightbearer
Yes Really. The Word for Sabbath is plural in that text. Verse 16 starts with the word therefore. Which keeps it in context to verse 14

Having blotted out the handwriting to the ordinances that is against us, that was contrary to us, and he hath taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.


It is the Sabbaths that were of the handwriting to the ordinances. The ordinances are the Decalogue and those Laws contained in the Book of the Law that showed us what righteousness is. The handwriting to them that were against us, were those laws pertaining to when we sinned not those laws that showed us what righteousness is.

Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
(Col 2:16 KJV)


Yes, it is plural, notice the 's' on the end of days. The Jews kept all the Sabbaths, and the message is to take no notice of anyone who might judge them in meat, drink, or holydays.

As was said the Context brings us to the handwriting to the ordinances that were against us, not the ordinances themselves and certainly not the Decalogue. Not all the handwriting to the ordinances were against. Most of that which is contained in the Book of the Law pertain to what righteousness is. They describe the Character of GOD and HIS Christ. They are who we are through HIM through HIS Spirit; HIS Word, His Law; HIS Christ being in our hearts, minds and mouths so we can do it.

Most importantly Paul is not addressing the Decalogue in Colossians. He is writing of the Book of the Law and only those writings in it that were against us. Those writings that dealt with when we sinned.

 

[lightbearer]

Amen brother! We need to interpret the meaning of John's writings by comparing them with the other writings of John.

What about bestiality? It is not mentioned in the New Testament so according to your theology it is acceptable behavior with GOD now because it was not mentioned.

 

[PS]

No Your adding things that are not there and you are not addressing the points of the posts you are responding to. The text says, "As GOD did from HIS; Period. The ceasing of GOD is mentioned earlier, so the context is clear.

For HE (GOD) spake in a certain place (the Decalogue) of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. And in this again (the Decalogue), If they shall enter into my rest (receive the Gospel). Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein (the Gospel), and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief (obstinate stiff neck rebellion)

(Heb 4:4-6)

The word 'if' is future, (they haven't entered it yet), and is conditional upon whether or not people receive the Gospel. Those who don't will never enter God's rest.

The phrase "If they shall enter into my rest" appears in other translations as “They shall not enter my rest.”

(BBE) They will not come into my rest.
(CEV) "You people will never enter my place of rest!"
(ERV) "They will never enter my place of rest."
(ESV) “They shall not enter my rest.”
(ISV) "They will never enter my rest."
(LEB) 'They will never enter into my rest.'"
(MKJV) And in this place again, "They shall not enter into My rest."
(RV) and in this place again, They shall not enter into my rest.

 

[PS]

As was said the Context brings us to the handwriting to the ordinances that were against us, not the ordinances themselves and certainly not the Decalogue. Not all the handwriting to the ordinances were against. Most of that which is contained in the Book of the Law pertain to what righteousness is. They describe the Character of GOD and HIS Christ. They are who we are through HIM through HIS Spirit; HIS Word, His Law; HIS Christ being in our hearts, minds and mouths so we can do it.

Most importantly Paul is not addressing the Decalogue in Colossians. He is writing of the Book of the Law and only those writings in it that were against us. Those writings that dealt with when we sinned.

Will you re-write that please, so I can understand it.

 

[Dan_473]

under the law

in Romans 3:19
ἐν τῷ νόμῳ*

in Galatians 5:18
ὑπὸ νόμον

different words

to me, looking at one set of words and thinking it must mean the same as the other set of words isn't the right thing to do

*************

posted from my phone, blessings!

 

[Studyman]

the quote has to start somewhere
the chapter and verse markings were added later anyways

In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.

*O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

34*For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?

35*Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?

36*For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever.



*************

posted from my phone, blessings!

8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

 

[lightbearer]

No Your adding things that are not there and you are not addressing the points of the posts you are responding to. The text says, "As GOD did from HIS; Period. The ceasing of GOD is mentioned earlier, so the context is clear.

For HE (GOD) spake in a certain place (the Decalogue) of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. And in this again (the Decalogue), If they shall enter into my rest (receive the Gospel). Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein (the Gospel), and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief (obstinate stiff neck rebellion)

(Heb 4:4-6)

The word 'if' is future, (they haven't entered it yet), and is conditional upon whether or not people receive the Gospel. Those who don't will never enter God's rest.

The phrase "If they shall enter into my rest" appears in other translations as “They shall not enter my rest.”

(BBE) They will not come into my rest.
(CEV) "You people will never enter my place of rest!"
(ERV) "They will never enter my place of rest."
(ESV) “They shall not enter my rest.”
(ISV) "They will never enter my rest."
(LEB) 'They will never enter into my rest.'"
(MKJV) And in this place again, "They shall not enter into My rest."
(RV) and in this place again, They shall not enter into my rest.

It is a conditional particle which the extant of Greek manuscripts all concur. But none of the manuscripts have a negative particle. Those translations you cited are taking a liberty they ought not take. They do it it because the feel the writer of Hebrews meant to quote Psalm 95:11 verbatim. He did not. The Word stands as is.

The Gospel is conditional in respect to unbelief (obstinate stiff necked rebellion). If we are rebelling as Israel did in the example GIVEN in chapter 3, then we have not enter into HIS Rest (received the Gospel) either. But the writer of Hebrews makes it clear, "For we which have believed do enter into rest. So with that being understood it is not future for all.
Incidentally The "if" is in respect to the rest of the Gospel. The "this again" in verse 5 is in relation to the Seventh Day Sabbath.

Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest (the Gospel), any of you should seem to come short of it. For unto us was the Gospel (HIS Rest) preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. For we which have believed do enter into rest (the Gospel), as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest (the Gospel): although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.(Heb 4:1-3 KJV)

Please Notice above that the Gospel was available to Israel since Moses but they did not enter into due to unbelief (obstinate stiff necked rebellion). What is also being said in those text is that the works for the the HIS rest (the Gospel) were finished from the foundation of the World. Which means that any one from the time of dam on had the capability through GOD through HIS Christ to enter into HIS rest; the Gospel.


For HE (GOD) spake in a certain place (the Decalogue) of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. And in this again (the Decalogue), If they shall enter into my rest (receive the Gospel). Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein (the Gospel), and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief (obstinate stiff neck rebellion)

(Heb 4:4-6)

 

[PS]

under the law

in Romans 3:19
ἐν τῷ νόμῳ*

in Galatians 5:18
ὑπὸ νόμον

different words

to me, looking at one set of words and thinking it must mean the same as the other set of words isn't the right thing to do

Rom 3:19 But we know that whatever the Torah says, it speaks to those within the Torah, so that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world be under judgment to YAHWEH. Unless you are led by the Spirit, then you will not be under the penelty of breaking the Torah.

Gal 5:18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under (the penalty of breaking) the Torah.

Combining the two verses we get:
But we know that those under the law, are under the judgement of YAHWEH, but if they are led by the Spirit, all they do will be lawful.

IMO.

 

[Dan_473]

8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

very true!

gotta follow the spirit!