KING JAMES VERSION BIBLE VS. MODERN ENGLISH BIBLES

[MarcR]

If this is the case then I would suspect that most if not all words have gone the same way. If this is the case, do we really know what any of the Greek words truly meant at the time of their writings?

I believe that all 9 meanings of monogenes were in use in the first century and that unique was already the principal meaning at that time. Lexicons do an excellent job of showing how words are used in Scripture most of the time.
I prefer Arndt and Gingrich for Greek and Brown, Driver, & Briggs for Hebrew. Strong's definitions are simplistic and unreliable at best!

 

[graceNpeace]

If this is the case then I would suspect that most if not all words have gone the same way. If this is the case, do we really know what any of the Greek words truly meant at the time of their writings?

Yes, we do.

There is plenty of other stuff written in Greek both before and after the time of the New Testament of both secular and religious purpose.
Also, right from the first century, there are plenty of people writing in Greek about the New Testament and its meaning.
In fact, there is so much material in those writings that even if no manuscripts of the New Testament existed, the entire New Testament could still be reconstructed from the quotes in those writings.

So, yes, we know what the words mean when they were written two thousand years ago...

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

Ben Johnson, a famous drama critic contemporary with William Shakespeare described Shakespeare's work as awful and artificial. At the time the words meant awesome and well crafted. In fact we still use artifice to mean craftsmanship.

Indeed The Lord Most High is terrible, The Great and awful God!

 

[KJV1611]

Yes, we do.

There is plenty of other stuff written in Greek both before and after the time of the New Testament of both secular and religious purpose.
Also, right from the first century, there are plenty of people writing in Greek about the New Testament and its meaning.
In fact, there is so much material in those writings that even if no manuscripts of the New Testament existed, the entire New Testament could still be reconstructed from the quotes in those writings.

So, yes, we know what the words mean when they were written two thousand years ago...

I'm interested in monogenes meaning, where can I see the 1st century definition?

 

[KJV1611]

Also I would like to see 1st century secular writings using monogenes if anyone knows where that can be found.

 

[trofimus]

Also I would like to see 1st century secular writings using monogenes if anyone knows where that can be found.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monogenēs

 

[trofimus]

The meaning of monogenēs was part of early Christian christological controversy regarding the Trinity. It is claimed that Arian arguments that used texts that refer to Christ as God's "only begotten Son" are based on a misunderstanding of the Greek word monogenēs and that the Greek word does not mean "begotten" in the sense we beget children but means "having no peer, unique"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monogenēs#Textual_issues_in_John_1:18

 

[MarcR]

I'm interested in monogenes meaning, where can I see the 1st century definition?

Owing to the fact that you do not understand Greek; you probably can't. Lexicographers deduce it from both scriptural and secular usage of contemporary writers which in addition to Scripture include the Early church 'fathers', Josephus, Heroditus, and writings in 1st century classical Greek.

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monogenēs

IMO The Greek then affirms the Hebrew from Exodus. I Am. The only one of my kind. I am that I am.

Why do we ask G-d for a name? There is only one, there is no other. Who can we compare him to? We have names to differentiate ourselves one from another. YHVH is one, unique being, the author of life.

 

[KJV1611]

The meaning of monogenēs was part of early Christian christological controversy regarding the Trinity. It is claimed that Arian arguments that used texts that refer to Christ as God's "only begotten Son" are based on a misunderstanding of the Greek word monogenēs and that the Greek word does not mean "begotten" in the sense we beget children but means "having no peer, unique"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monogen%C4%93s#Textual_issues_in_John_1:18

This type of arguement is insane to me. "Misunderstanding of the Greek word monogenes" in your post above. Do these people not realize that those verses are quoting the Psalms? Does the Hebrew word for begotten in the Psalms mean "unigue"?

 

[KJV1611]

Owing to the fact that you do not understand Greek; you probably can't. Lexicographers deduce it from both scriptural and secular usage of contemporary writers which in addition to Scripture include the Early church 'fathers', Josephus, Heroditus, and writings in 1st century classical Greek.

So we are supposed to ignore the fact that it's a quotaion of the Psalms where the Hebrew word meaning has nothiing to do with uniqueness or one of a kindness? Should we ignore the context, which without doubt is talking about the birth of the physical body of Chrst... should we ignore those things and accept the deductions of a Lexicographer?

 

[trofimus]

This type of arguement is insane to me. "Misunderstanding of the Greek word monogenes" in your post above. Do these people not realize that those verses are quoting the Psalms? Does the Hebrew word for begotten in the Psalms mean "unigue"?

I looked at biblehub.com, at my UBS 5 and neither says that J 1:18 is a quotation of some psalm.

 

[trofimus]

So we are supposed to ignore the fact that it's a quotaion of the Psalms where the Hebrew word meaning has nothiing to do with uniqueness or one of a kindness? Should we ignore the context, which without doubt is talking about the birth of the physical body of Chrst... should we ignore those things and accept the deductions of a Lexicographer?

Well, there are huge doubts thats its about physical body.

Not even Arianus argued that way.

 

[trofimus]

IMO The Greek then affirms the Hebrew from Exodus. I Am. The only one of my kind. I am that I am.

Why do we ask G-d for a name? There is only one, there is no other. Who can we compare him to? We have names to differentiate ourselves one from another. YHVH is one, unique being, the author of life.

Yes, while most Christians and Jews think that YHWH is a name of God, I personally think it means "I do not have any name, because I simply am".

 

[KJV1611]

So here's what I see... The monogenes definition has turned the simplicity of the Father begatting the physical body of Christ into Christ the eternal being "coming out of the Father".

I"m glad I'm KJV only lol. All I can say is just wow... unbelievable.

 

[trofimus]

So here's what I see... The monogenes definition has turned the simplicity of the Father begatting the physical body of Christ into Christ the eternal being "coming out of the Father".

I"m glad I'm KJV only lol. All I can say is just wow... unbelievable.

How exactly is the body of Christ in "the bossom of the Father" , God is Spirit?

 

[KJV1611]

How exactly is the body of Christ in "the bossom of the Father" , God is Spirit?

Trof my friend it's pointless for me to continue on this subject. I don't have any more comments related to this... I will return when the topic changes.

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

So here's what I see... The monogenes definition has turned the simplicity of the Father begatting the physical body of Christ into Christ the eternal being "coming out of the Father".

I"m glad I'm KJV only lol. All I can say is just wow... unbelievable.

Doesn't it make sense to you that he comes out of the father all the time? He always has done. Before the physical body of Jesus was formed in Mary, he already was from the father, with the father, in the father. In eternity they are one?

 

[trofimus]

I"m glad I'm KJV only lol. All I can say is just wow... unbelievable.

J 3:16 - "God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son"

You - "God so loved the world that he has begotten his only Son"

 

[KJV1611]

J 3:16 - "God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son"

You - "God so loved the world that he has begotten his only Son"

That's the kind of stuff I'm talking about being pointless... if that's what you think I'm saying then you are not understanding any thing I'm writing.