Not By Works

[Magenta]

First, these people were believers in Jesus Christ. They, however, had not had the baptism of the HS yet.

Then Paul rebaptized them (water baptism) in the name of the Lord.

Then Paul layed his hands on their heads and they recieved the HS.

This model of receiving the HS is different than you portray through your bible filter. Why do you think that is so?

It isn't so. Notice in the verses you gave, they received the Holy Spirit with the laying on of hands, NOT baptism. The Holy Spirit is portrayed in Scripture as being given at different times.

 

[LightLoveHope]

When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus, and when Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they began to speak in tongues and to prophesy.
Acts 19:5-6

Look at the verses. Baptism of John was for repentance, baptism of Jesus was baptism
into His death and resurrection. After they had water baptism, Paul laid hands on them
and they received the Holy Spirit.

They did not have the baptism of the Holy Spirit in this text, but the physical baptism
of christians into the faith in Jesus. It is that simple.

 

[loverofjesus27]

Man the internet is overrated. :/

 

[Stranger36147]

Man the internet is overrated. :/

Tell that to all the people who are on their smartphones constantly.

 

[Shamah]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 7:24-27, “Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine, and does them, shall be like a wise man who built his house on the rock, and the rain came down, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house, and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock. And everyone who hears these words of Mine, and does not do them, shall be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand, and the rain came down, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and they beat on that house, and it fell, and great was its fall.” [/FONT]

 

[dcontroversal]

Free Grace is a school of theology.
There is little point me commenting further.

Exactly.....and why---> because no need to comment on something you neither understand or acknowledge as truth!

 

[dcontroversal]

For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life.
Therefore, he who rejects this instruction does not reject man but God, who gives you his Holy Spirit.
1 Thess 4:7-8

Until you can face God who tells you this, there is not anything more I need to say.

Prove anyone teaches to live contrary to the truth or be found a false witness.....we won't hold our breath!!

 

[dcontroversal]

If my belief about being saved is crap, so is yours, since both come straight from the same bible.

Why not read the thread and address those who actually address you instead of interjecting flippant comments that have nothing to do with anything you have said.......serious!

 

[dcontroversal]

That is because it is not the end of the story. It is just the beginning of the story. Charity is the end of the story. Do you know why?

Sure it is.....salvation is by faith alone.....end of story........maybe go read the OP and take 2 seconds of actually comprehend what this thread is about......you can read and logically deduce something right?

 

[dcontroversal]

Mark 16:16 is simple too, but a little different. What do you think?

We will acknowledge the validity of it after you drink battery acid in front of all of us....you guys seem to leave that part off.......and there is evidence it has been added after the fact....of course you will reject that truth!

 

[dcontroversal]

Greeting dcontroversal,

Let me humbly put a simple point to you, that you may have missed.
God is judgmental. The lake of fire is judgmental. Judgment is judgmental.

The problem is not the judgments but who is judging. We stand before the
King of Kings, condemned and found guilty, our hearts found unclean and
impure, in need of change, forgiveness and cleansing.

Jesus said of the pharisees they were full of greed and envy. He said they
needed to clean their hearts, but where very good at cleaning how they appeared.

So my friend if you are calling Gods judgment crap, you are lost and condemned.
No matter how great your realization of faith and promises, and all the theology
you grew up with, unless you bow the knee before Him, the Lord of Lords and
accept His forgiveness and cleansing, there is nothing else. I know how false
man can be, and how difficult the things of the heart are, but Christ brings freedom,
real freedom, real eternity into mortal souls, like a new day has dawned and everything
is fresh. Until one wakes and sees this in ones heart, it is always a mystery, like groping
in the dark, with condemnation and failure dogging every step.

I walked this path for many years, and did not know a way through. For as long as I live
Gods judgment is right and true. My soul and life will rest in Him, the Lord of all, my Savior.

Now my friend, I have shared nothing more than what is in scripture, yet you react like it
is toxic. This speaks of the state of your heart and not my sharing. I wish I could help you
more, but until you find this place of forgiveness and cleansing you will always feel these
pangs of condemnation that exist because you refuse to resolve that which you know you
need to resolve.

In Jesus and the cross, what is holding you back? Praise God He resolves our needs.

Dear Lord Jesus, come tonight to meet with those who seek you, to resolve those sins,
hurts, anguish, which block them and stop them from walking in your ways and finding
your peace and rest. Please dear Lord help them see your forgiveness and cleansing is
there if they will only reach out and claim it in faith, In Jesus's Name, Amen

Grace and peace to you, may you find the overflowing love, forgiveness and cleansing
of our Lord Jesus Christ, the savior of the world

Let me put something to you.......You are not God and have no ability to judge motive or the thoughts and intent of the heart......wake up!

 

[dcontroversal]

of course i have...

many times


16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned


clear as day


(hope you arent thinking He means water baptism hahahaha)

Of course he does.....

 

[loverofjesus27]

Prove anyone teaches to live contrary to the truth or be found a false witness.....we won't hold our breath!!

Trying to ammend me, surprise surprise! I woke up!!

go on dc...

 

[Katy-follower]

Mark 16:16 is simple too, but a little different. What do you think?

Have another read.

Mark 16:14-18: "Later He appeared to the eleven as they sat at the table; and He rebuked their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they did not believe those who had seen Him after He had risen. And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.

He who believes and is baptized will be saved ; but he who does not believe will be condemned.

And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”

Did you notice in verse 16 it does not say "he who does not believe and is not baptized will be condemned" because the focus is on believing, not baptism. Water baptism plays no role in salvation. It follows salvation.

 

[LightLoveHope]

For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life.
Therefore, he who rejects this instruction does not reject man but God, who gives you his Holy Spirit.
1 Thess 4:7-8
Until you can face God who tells you this, there is not anything more I need to say.

Prove anyone teaches to live contrary to the truth or be found a false witness.....we won't hold our breath!!

Greetings dc,
God is asking you to not live an impure life but to live a holy life.
Can you accept this? Yes or no?
I can accept this, because He is my Lord. You seem incapable of answering Gods call.

 

[LightLoveHope]

Greeting dcontroversal,

Let me humbly put a simple point to you, that you may have missed.
God is judgmental. The lake of fire is judgmental. Judgment is judgmental.

The problem is not the judgments but who is judging. We stand before the
King of Kings, condemned and found guilty, our hearts found unclean and
impure, in need of change, forgiveness and cleansing.

Jesus said of the pharisees they were full of greed and envy. He said they
needed to clean their hearts, but where very good at cleaning how they appeared.

So my friend if you are calling Gods judgment crap, you are lost and condemned.
No matter how great your realization of faith and promises, and all the theology
you grew up with, unless you bow the knee before Him, the Lord of Lords and
accept His forgiveness and cleansing, there is nothing else. I know how false
man can be, and how difficult the things of the heart are, but Christ brings freedom,
real freedom, real eternity into mortal souls, like a new day has dawned and everything
is fresh. Until one wakes and sees this in ones heart, it is always a mystery, like groping
in the dark, with condemnation and failure dogging every step.

I walked this path for many years, and did not know a way through. For as long as I live
Gods judgment is right and true. My soul and life will rest in Him, the Lord of all, my Savior.

Now my friend, I have shared nothing more than what is in scripture, yet you react like it
is toxic. This speaks of the state of your heart and not my sharing. I wish I could help you
more, but until you find this place of forgiveness and cleansing you will always feel these
pangs of condemnation that exist because you refuse to resolve that which you know you
need to resolve.

In Jesus and the cross, what is holding you back? Praise God He resolves our needs.

Dear Lord Jesus, come tonight to meet with those who seek you, to resolve those sins,
hurts, anguish, which block them and stop them from walking in your ways and finding
your peace and rest. Please dear Lord help them see your forgiveness and cleansing is
there if they will only reach out and claim it in faith, In Jesus's Name, Amen

Grace and peace to you, may you find the overflowing love, forgiveness and cleansing
of our Lord Jesus Christ, the savior of the world

Let me put something to you.......You are not God and have no ability to judge motive or the thoughts and intent of the heart......wake up!

My friend, I am not judging anyone, I am telling you how you respond to
Gods clear word. This speaks of what is within, and you know this.
Your intentions may be good, but it is repentance, confession and faith
that saves us, not good intentions.

Jesus stands at the door and knocks. Will you open the door and let Him in?

 

[gb9]

My friend, I am not judging anyone, I am telling you how you respond to
Gods clear word. This speaks of what is within, and you know this.
Your intentions may be good, but it is repentance, confession and faith
that saves us, not good intentions.

Jesus stands at the door and knocks. Will you open the door and let Him in?

wrong as usual. it is BELIEF in the Lord Jesus Christ that saves. His imputed righteousness makes us worthy to eneter the Kingdom. ( you know, the thing you call a neat little trick that does not work).

your salvation is not a joint operation between you and Jesus. it is all Him. Titus 3.

 

[mailmandan]

Have another read.

Mark 16:14-18: "Later He appeared to the eleven as they sat at the table; and He rebuked their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they did not believe those who had seen Him after He had risen. And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.

He who believes and is baptized will be saved ; but he who does not believe will be condemned.

And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”

Did you notice in verse 16 it does not say "he who does not believe and is not baptized will be condemned" because the focus is on believing, not baptism. Water baptism plays no role in salvation. It follows salvation.

Amen! If water baptism is absolutely required for salvation, then why did Jesus not mention it in the following verses? (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26). What is the ONE requirement that Jesus mentions 9 different times in each of these complete statements? BELIEVES. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics.

*John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

You do not know for sure if Adam or the thief was baptized, so it is not a solid position to take. The best you can say is "I think they were not baptized", which is not the end.

well thats a strange answer to the question

anyways
the best you could say is you think they were

I'm glad you believe and were baptized by the HS.

me too
it's absolutely wonderful being a new creature and having assurance in the promises of my Lord and savior

In the bible there are many scriptures that relate that the apostles baptized many by water baptism. What's with that. Do you think that the apostles would have water baptized if it was not necessary?

Do you think Jesus would have been water baptized if it was not necessary?

first its a physical cerimony that represents what happens spiritually


also Jesus fulfilled the WHOLE law
He was absolutely perfect and did every good work

and its His righteousness that i will be judged by
not my own (otherwise id surely perish)

Do you think Jesus would have instructed his apostles to go out and preach the gospel to the world and baptize them in the name of the Father and the Son and the HS if it was not necessary?

do you believe you will be judged by your own righteousness or His?

preaching the gospel is necessary
faith comes by hearing
(but if you dont go out and preach that doesnt mean you cant be covered by His righteousness... thats a work and we arent saved by works)
the water baptism is just a lovely representation in the physical of what needs to happen spiritually
(the physical work isnt needed to be covered by His righteousness though it is a wonderful thing every Christian should do)

Like I say, for your sake, I hope you are right that all you need is the baptism of the HS, but the bible gives a lot of instances of water baptism

why would you hope i am right?
from my point of view you are trusting in what works you do in order to be saved.....

Of course water baptism in and of itself will not save you.

i agree completely
only Jesus saves us
its best not to add to or take from what He did and trample on the blood of Christ

There is more to being saved than water baptism

only Jesus saves


by grace through faith He will make you new

born again of an incorruptible seed
and He will impute His righteousness to whosoever believes on His name (as their Lord and savior)

And of course if you don't believe you will be damned regardless if you go out and have a water baptism or not.

agreed


Romans 4
4 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?

2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.

 

[LightLoveHope]

wrong as usual. it is BELIEF in the Lord Jesus Christ that saves. His imputed righteousness makes us worthy to eneter the Kingdom. ( you know, the thing you call a neat little trick that does not work).

your salvation is not a joint operation between you and Jesus. it is all Him. Titus 3.

Greeting gb9,

Can you accept you are called by God to live a Holy life?
Or are you going to reject Gods clear word?

Do you know what Peter said to God when God commanded him to eat unclean animals?

He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners.
It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles of the earth and birds of the air.
Then a voice told him, "Get up, Peter. Kill and eat."
"Surely not, Lord!" Peter replied. "I have never eaten anything impure or unclean."
The voice spoke to him a second time, "Do not call anything impure that God has made clean."
Acts 10:11-15

Then I remembered what the Lord had said: 'John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.'
So if God gave them the same gift as he gave us, who believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to think that I could oppose God?"
When they heard this, they had no further objections and praised God, saying, "So then, God has granted even the Gentiles repentance unto life."
Acts 11:16-18

Now your whole premise is we are unclean. The premise of Peter was that he was clean
and full of the Holy Spirit. God was commanding him to go and preach to unclean gentiles
who were then cleansed and filled with the Holy Spirit.

So will you listen to God and what He regards as cleansed and what is defiled? If the Holy
Spirit falls on people, God regards them as cleansed and purified. But this does not mean
people cannot then become later defiled and rebellious, except I think your theology would
not allow for that. This tension is why John writes as he does, grappling with our walk after
meeting Jesus and being cleansed and then failing, maybe.

Paul talks of handing people over to satan for a rebuke, which means he believed they were
"saved" or would be saved if the were rebuked and returned to faith.

The problem for me, is seeing people not accepting God calls them Holy, cleansed, purified and
yet some deny this is possible. But then maybe these believers have not yet really reached out
to God the Holy one, knowing that He speaks to our hearts and literally remakes us, sorting out
issues we believe are unresolvable. All I know, is the Lord can do the impossible, and so I have
faith in Him. Amen.