Not By Works
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the same reason He never knows anyone not born again
unbelief
they trusted their works
not His sacrifice
this is why their fruits show them boasting of what THEY did
they were NEVER saved which is why they will be judged according to their righteousness
and not His perfect righteousness
and they will fall short
not being without blemish
and even if they only have 1 sin
they will be deemed
"workers of iniquity"
or "sinners"
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
(that we believe on Him the Father sent)
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
(boasting of works)
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
(never knew them.... NEVER.... these arent born again Christians so they will be judged by THEIR works not HIS imputed righteousness)
john 6
27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.
28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
unbelief
they trusted their works
not His sacrifice
this is why their fruits show them boasting of what THEY did
they were NEVER saved which is why they will be judged according to their righteousness
and not His perfect righteousness
and they will fall short
not being without blemish
and even if they only have 1 sin
they will be deemed
"workers of iniquity"
or "sinners"
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
(that we believe on Him the Father sent)
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
(boasting of works)
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
(never knew them.... NEVER.... these arent born again Christians so they will be judged by THEIR works not HIS imputed righteousness)
john 6
27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.
28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
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N
first you have to admit
by our own righteousness
we will all fall short.....
then
if you think your works are the difference between going to hell or heaven after being "born again"
then you believe on yourself to gain access
plain and simple
Galatians 2:16
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
by our own righteousness
we will all fall short.....
then
if you think your works are the difference between going to hell or heaven after being "born again"
then you believe on yourself to gain access
plain and simple
Galatians 2:16
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
N
Romans 10
10 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above
7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
this explains clearly what we are debating
10 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above
7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
this explains clearly what we are debating
If Jesus says to forgive every man that trespasses against you, or your heavenly Father will not forgive you of your trespasses against Him, do you believe that or not?
Probably not because Paul seems to override the sayings of Jesus. You seem to be taking the words of Paul over the words of Jesus. What do you think?
Probably not because Paul seems to override the sayings of Jesus. You seem to be taking the words of Paul over the words of Jesus. What do you think?
N
no
Jesus is referring to those without imputed righteous
Jesus in that whole chapter (as well as most the chapter before and after) is specifically admonishing the acts of money lovers
and pharisees
if youre going by works or the law
this is truth
and when we are judged
we too will be judged like this
the question is wether or not you have the imputed righteousness of Jesus
(which is NOT BY works)
there are zero errors in the bible
it flows in perfect harmony if you rightly divide
Jesus is referring to those without imputed righteous
Jesus in that whole chapter (as well as most the chapter before and after) is specifically admonishing the acts of money lovers
and pharisees
if youre going by works or the law
this is truth
and when we are judged
we too will be judged like this
the question is wether or not you have the imputed righteousness of Jesus
(which is NOT BY works)
there are zero errors in the bible
it flows in perfect harmony if you rightly divide
N
in your view Jesus overrides His own saying
john 6
28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?
31 Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat.
32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.
33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.
34 Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.
35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
john 6
28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?
31 Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat.
32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.
33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.
34 Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.
35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
Jesus said that He has come only for the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Jesus said do not go to the Gentiles. Do you believe in this today, or has further truth been dispensed through His spokesman Paul?
What Paul taught is what was given him through special revelation by Jesus Christ. As we follow Paul's words, we follow Christ's words.
What Paul taught is what was given him through special revelation by Jesus Christ. As we follow Paul's words, we follow Christ's words.
I cannot imagine that the apostles of the Lord would make a unilateral executive decision to move the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday (the Lords Day) without the express OK from the Lord himself.
I have always believed that as the New Testament was established among the new Christians, the old Saturday Sabbath was changed to the new Lords Day (the day that Jesus was resurrected). So, OT=Saturday Sabbath, NT=Sunday Sabbath.
The Sabbath has not been abolished, (many good Christians think the Sabbath was abolished, like circumcision) but we are still commanded to worship on the Sabbath, only it has been changed from Saturday to Sunday, in honor of the Lords Day.
I have always believed that as the New Testament was established among the new Christians, the old Saturday Sabbath was changed to the new Lords Day (the day that Jesus was resurrected). So, OT=Saturday Sabbath, NT=Sunday Sabbath.
The Sabbath has not been abolished, (many good Christians think the Sabbath was abolished, like circumcision) but we are still commanded to worship on the Sabbath, only it has been changed from Saturday to Sunday, in honor of the Lords Day.
I am curious. What is this talking about?
Imagine you construct around someones words a different story, which could be true but
could also be imaginary. And in this story there is sin, evil, a desire to do harm etc to others.
You then start talking to the story as if it is true, and people who believe the same back story,
follow along.
Now the real story is an emotional attempt to upset people so they then respond negatively,
and you say, "told you so."
The addiction to this kind of behaviour is the delusion of thinking you know people before you
have met them, and not reading what they write. Now imagine how these type of people read
scripture. They read according to their own back story, which ends up with the wrong
conclusions. The only cure, is abide in the word, to find purity and openness, and to learn
to be simple in ones interactions, giving gracefully back as one receives.
So I do not know who they are referring to, or even why, but I suggest reading what people
bring is a good starting place. Grace and peace to you in Christ Jesus, Amen
Imagine you construct around someones words a different story, which could be true but
could also be imaginary. And in this story there is sin, evil, a desire to do harm etc to others.
You then start talking to the story as if it is true, and people who believe the same back story,
follow along.
Now the real story is an emotional attempt to upset people so they then respond negatively,
and you say, "told you so."
The addiction to this kind of behaviour is the delusion of thinking you know people before you
have met them, and not reading what they write. Now imagine how these type of people read
scripture. They read according to their own back story, which ends up with the wrong
conclusions. The only cure, is abide in the word, to find purity and openness, and to learn
to be simple in ones interactions, giving gracefully back as one receives.
So I do not know who they are referring to, or even why, but I suggest reading what people
bring is a good starting place. Grace and peace to you in Christ Jesus, Amen
Sorry, but there are thousands of nuances of the Christian religion. What I believe as a Christian is obviously not what thousands of others believe. So here on the forum we discuss those differences. The problem is that some cannot use appropriate words and call people names and fall into the hands of satan who wants nothing more than to divide us and conquer us.
So is it OK to debate the different doctrines of the church, yes. Is it OK for some to think their doctrine is the only correct doctrine, no. We are all Christians, and we must all show the love of Jesus Christ toward our fellow men, even when that fellow man does not belive exactly as you believe. He still has the right to come on this forum and express his beliefs without being called names.
It was a good suggestion that if there are those that you just cannot tolerate, then put them on ignore. That is better than arguing and name calling and being unChristian. May the Lord be with all of us.
So is it OK to debate the different doctrines of the church, yes. Is it OK for some to think their doctrine is the only correct doctrine, no. We are all Christians, and we must all show the love of Jesus Christ toward our fellow men, even when that fellow man does not belive exactly as you believe. He still has the right to come on this forum and express his beliefs without being called names.
It was a good suggestion that if there are those that you just cannot tolerate, then put them on ignore. That is better than arguing and name calling and being unChristian. May the Lord be with all of us.
There is the Apostles Creed that was created in the early days of Christianity to define who Is and isn't a Christian. It is the core belief and ignores the side issues that cropped up early on.
THE APOSTLES CREED
() Not included in earliest manuscripts. The origin and date of the creed is unknown.
I believe in God the Father Almighty, Maker of Heaven and Earth; And in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord, who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, dead, and buried. (He descended into Hell.) The third day he rose again from the dead. He ascended into Heaven, and sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty; from there He shall come to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy universal 2 church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and the life everlasting.
Amen.
THE APOSTLES CREED
() Not included in earliest manuscripts. The origin and date of the creed is unknown.
I believe in God the Father Almighty, Maker of Heaven and Earth; And in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord, who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, dead, and buried. (He descended into Hell.) The third day he rose again from the dead. He ascended into Heaven, and sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty; from there He shall come to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy universal 2 church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and the life everlasting.
Amen.
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Sometimes when that happens, subsequent posters quote the error, and then it is perpetuated for a while before someone corrects it. It is a mess that should not happen in the first place, and even when it does, people have a full five minutes to edit their post and fix the boo boo. Maybe they do not understand what happened? Comprehending a little bit about HTML can come in handy at such times. It is fairly remedial. Making sure the quote wrap is there in its entirety, and fixing it if it is not, is pretty simple.
Now that we are on the subject... I must admit that it bothers me when someone responds to a post but deletes the link back to the original post, which means that everyone else is left in the dark as to whom is being quoted, and where to find the quoted post. If you do that, please stop it
Now that we are on the subject... I must admit that it bothers me when someone responds to a post but deletes the link back to the original post, which means that everyone else is left in the dark as to whom is being quoted, and where to find the quoted post. If you do that, please stop it