Not By Works

[VCO]

Greeting vco,

You are right, there is a danger believing we know who is one thing or another.
But those who stand with Jesus, it does not matter, other than just shinning a light
on what it means to be real, loving and true.

It is for the believer to acknowledge the truth and their guilt or innocense.
It has always been like this, unless one walks in honesty, all is lost.
Let your "yes" be "yes" and your "no" be "no"

So the conviction about who is who can get people carried away, falling
for the polarization that is just too strong. The enemy will always try as
many tricks as possible, grace to you in the name of Jesus.

Yeah, you are right, IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN LIKE THIS.

Ecclesiastes 1:9-10 (HCSB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] What has been is what will be, and what has been done is what will be done; there is nothing new under the sun.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] Can one say about anything, “Look, this is new”? It has already existed in the ages before us.

 

[Katy-follower]

Hebrews 10:26-27 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.

This is why you need to read by chapter, rather than picking out random verses, otherwise you take everything out of context.

It's late here, so I can't do an entire post on Hebrews 10 (another day), but it's interesting that you missed the other verses, especially V12-14: "But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God, from that time waiting till His enemies are made His footstool. For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified"


Who are the enemies of God according to scripture?

This is one of many examples in Romans, confirming that before we were saved we were said to be enemies. So those who are born of the Spirit are no longer enemies.

Romans 5:8-11: "But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him. For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.

 

[LightLoveHope]

Since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool,
because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.
Heb 10:13-14

"he has made perfect forever"
Some want to focus on the forever, as if they have jumped on a train and they
have arrived, so therefore in Gods eyes they are now perfect, no issues.

In eternity, those who will walk in heaven with the Lord, are made perfect, acceptable
to God through the cross, cleansed, purified, acceptable. But this is a work in progress
"who are being made holy" - so the destination is on going, sanctification at work.

The language can be looked at as cut and dried or as a status achieved by faith in Jesus,
but lost if that faith goes.

Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess, for he who promised is faithful.
And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds.
Heb 10:23-24

The writer is calling the listeners to choose, to hold to the hope, because it is so
great and perfect, such a promise one could not abandon or desert.

To under write the whole idea, he goes on to describe those who choose to abandon
the way and give themselves over to sin.

It is hard to not conclude, the writer is saying look how great is the calling and all God
has done so press on, hold fast, and claim that which God has provided. But it is a choice.

So do not throw away your confidence; it will be richly rewarded.
Heb 10:35

It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
Heb 10:31

The warning is plain, the offer is great, but also the judgement if you stray from the
gift. To down play this warning is to not take God seriously. The terms are simple

For we know him who said, "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," and again, "The Lord will judge his people."
Heb 10:30

Many claim, no He will not judge His people, it will be light, losing all but saving oneself.
The whole idea why this makes sense is supporting sinful behavior and rebellion.

We are saved because we believe Jesus and because of this belief we obey His commands.
I would suggest some claim they can believe Jesus and disobey and rebel against God and
His commands. So though we would agree the language in its simplest form, we look at
Jesus's commands to love very differently. And it is this word "love" and forgiveness that
is at the center of the problem. Put simply, compromise, failure, sin is just accepted as
normal, rather than of this world and not of the Kingdom.

 

[LightLoveHope]

I have been wondering. Some want to say they are always impure, unclean, defiled.
What is it they are talking about? Lust, greed, anger, jealousy, revenge, unforgiveness, bitterness,
hatred, envy. Maybe all of these things.

Often the real issue is not believing one has gifts, value, worth, the ability to have good relationships,
to care, be responsible, have integrity, honesty, openness. But this is always a lie, because everyone
has the potential to be all these things and be a child of the living God, which is why He came to die
upon the cross. Which is why we do not need to prove ourselves, He already has, but to accept the
value He puts on our lives.

 

[mailmandan]

Hebrews 10:26-27 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.

In regards to Hebrews 10:26, To "sin willfully" in the Greek carries the idea of deliberate intention that is habitual, which stems from rejecting Christ deliberately. This is CONTINUOUS ACTION - A MATTER OF PRACTICE. Now we don't walk along our daily life and "accidentally" fall into a pit called sin. We exercise our will but, the use of the participle clearly shows a CONTINUOUS ACTION.

The unrighteous practice sin - (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-21); not the righteous, who are born of God - (1 Corinthians 6:11; 1 John 3:9).

 

[mailmandan]

1 Corinthians 5:9-13 I have written you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat. What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked man from among you.”

Calls himself a believer. Wicked is not a description of the righteous. The Church, the body of Christ (Colossians 1:18,24) is not made up of the wicked, but of the righteous, yet "nominal" Christians do get mixed in with groups of genuine believers in various congregations.

 

[gb9]

I have been wondering. Some want to say they are always impure, unclean, defiled.
What is it they are talking about? Lust, greed, anger, jealousy, revenge, unforgiveness, bitterness,
hatred, envy. Maybe all of these things.

Often the real issue is not believing one has gifts, value, worth, the ability to have good relationships,
to care, be responsible, have integrity, honesty, openness. But this is always a lie, because everyone
has the potential to be all these things and be a child of the living God, which is why He came to die
upon the cross. Which is why we do not need to prove ourselves, He already has, but to accept the
value He puts on our lives.

definition of sin, according to the Bible- missing the mark, falling short of a standard, knowing to do good, and not so.

now, if one can say they always hit the mark, always keep the standard, and always do what they know they should, then they can say that they do not sin, and pure and holy. but, if they do not do these things WITHOUT FLAW, then one ( you ) cannot truthfully say that they sinless, pure, holy.

 

[LightLoveHope]

How did satan talk about Job?

Then the LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil."
"Does Job fear God for nothing?" Satan replied.
"Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land.
But stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face."
Job 1:8-11

Satan is saying I can show you failure in Job, if you change this or that, he will sin.
People can only talk about themselves and their habitual sinful behaviour. Unless they
know another and the sin they commit, they cannot speak on their behalf, yet you will
read them talking about everyone and how failure will come. Oh people of little faith
in Christ and the cross, as if sanctification defines Holiness and it hypocracy.
They claim to see and yet are blind, to hear and yet do not, to understand yet deny
the very tenants of Christs teaching.

Jesus taught build your house upon the rock. Not everyone is building houses of sand
so it is all a waste of time. But for sinners with no faith, yes it is failure and no they
cannot do it.

 

[gb9]

How did satan talk about Job?

Then the LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil."
"Does Job fear God for nothing?" Satan replied.
"Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land.
But stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face."
Job 1:8-11

Satan is saying I can show you failure in Job, if you change this or that, he will sin.
People can only talk about themselves and their habitual sinful behaviour. Unless they
know another and the sin they commit, they cannot speak on their behalf, yet you will
read them talking about everyone and how failure will come. Oh people of little faith
in Christ and the cross, as if sanctification defines Holiness and it hypocracy.
They claim to see and yet are blind, to hear and yet do not, to understand yet deny
the very tenants of Christs teaching.

Jesus taught build your house upon the rock. Not everyone is building houses of sand
so it is all a waste of time. But for sinners with no faith, yes it is failure and no they
cannot do it.

your long winded , figurative language speeches will not help you on judgement, because if you think you do not sin ( no one is sinless, you included, ), you will get a shocking reality check.

since you call imputed righteousness " a neat little trick ", then you stand on your own merit. and it will not be your opinion of yourself that God will ask you. it will be the definitions that I gave you. do you keep these all the time? no.

 

[dcontroversal]

your long winded , figurative language speeches will not help you on judgement, because if you think you do not sin ( no one is sinless, you included, ), you will get a shocking reality check.

since you call imputed righteousness " a neat little trick ", then you stand on your own merit. and it will not be your opinion of yourself that God will ask you. it will be the definitions that I gave you. do you keep these all the time? no.

A neat little trick that does not work....lest we forget............Paul concluded the exact opposite...

WE conclude that a MAN is justified BY FAITH WITHOUT WORKS

THE righteousness of CHRIST WITHOUT THE LAW is IMPUTED (put to our account) BY FAITH

SALVATION is a FREE gift GIVEN by FAITH and without MERIT<----called GRACE

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

Lest any man should boast

 

[LightLoveHope]

No widow should be put on the list unless she is at least sixty years old, was the wife of one husband,
and has a reputation for good works: as one who has raised children, practiced hospitality, washed the feet of the saints, helped those in distress – as one who has exhibited all kinds of good works.
But do not accept younger widows on the list, because their passions may lead them away from Christ and they will desire to marry, and so incur judgment for breaking their former pledge.
1 Timothy 5:9-12


They will bring the grandeur and the wealth of the nations into it,
but nothing ritually unclean will ever enter into it, nor anyone who does what is detestable or practices falsehood, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.
Rev 21:26-27

For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person--such a man is an idolater--has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God's wrath comes on those who are disobedient.
Therefore do not be partners with them.
Ephesians 5:5-7

It is strange to read the above verses. The impure will not be part of Gods Kingdom.
God's judgement is coming because of this behavior.

Repent, confess and trust in the cross so that you can be purified unless you be found
still in sin and not cleansed and so judged as not a child of God.

 

[ElAmor]

~1Co 5:7　 Cleanse out the old leaven that you may be a new lump, as you really are unleavened. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed.

What does this mean...as you really are unleavened?

I really wanted to answer you with my own words but i may come out as a liar (romans 3:3-4 ) so i just leave everything to God who is true.

1 Thessalonians 4:1-8 Living to Please God Finally, brothers, we instructed you how to live in order to please God, as in fact you are living. Now we ask you and urge you in the Lord Jesus to do this more and more. For you know what instructions we gave you by the authority of the Lord Jesus. It is God’s will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality; that each of you should learn to control his own body in a way that is holy and honorable, not in passionate lust like the heathen, who do not know God; and that in this matter no one should wrong his brother or take advantage of him. The Lord will punish men for all such sins, as we have already told you and warned you. For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life. Therefore, he who rejects this instruction does not reject man but God, who gives you his Holy Spirit.


Colossians 3:1-17 Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is seated at the right hand of God. Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things. For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God. When Christ, who is your life, appears, then you also will appear with him in glory. Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. Because of these, the wrath of God is coming. You used to walk in these ways, in the life you once lived. But now you must rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips. Do not lie to each other, since you have taken off your old self with its practices and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator. Here there is no Greek or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all, and is in all. Therefore, as God’s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. Bear with each other and forgive whatever grievances you may have against one another. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity. Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, since as members of one body you were called to peace. And be thankful. Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom, and as you sing psalms, hymns and spiritual songs with gratitude in your hearts to God. And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.

 

[LightLoveHope]

What is so clear, is you feel guilty and convicted, yet want God to forgive that which
one refuses to give up and deal with.

If you were not aware of this impurity you would be innocent, but as you are aware
and refuse to repent and accept the cleansing from Jesus your guilt remains and likewise
the judgement that will fall.

Jesus replied, “If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin, but now because you claim that you can see, your guilt remains.”
John 9:41

 

[dcontroversal]

Lest any man should boast

amen....Jesus gets all the glory........NOT by works is clear........by faith is clear....

 

[ElAmor]

I really wanted to answer you with my own words but i may come out as a liar (romans 3:3-4 ) so i just leave everything to God who is true.

1 Thessalonians 4:1-8 Living to Please God Finally, brothers, we instructed you how to live in order to please God, as in fact you are living. Now we ask you and urge you in the Lord Jesus to do this more and more. For you know what instructions we gave you by the authority of the Lord Jesus. It is God’s will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality; that each of you should learn to control his own body in a way that is holy and honorable, not in passionate lust like the heathen, who do not know God; and that in this matter no one should wrong his brother or take advantage of him. The Lord will punish men for all such sins, as we have already told you and warned you. For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life. Therefore, he who rejects this instruction does not reject man but God, who gives you his Holy Spirit.


Colossians 3:1-17 Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is seated at the right hand of God. Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things. For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God. When Christ, who is your life, appears, then you also will appear with him in glory. Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. Because of these, the wrath of God is coming. You used to walk in these ways, in the life you once lived. But now you must rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips. Do not lie to each other, since you have taken off your old self with its practices and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator. Here there is no Greek or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all, and is in all. Therefore, as God’s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. Bear with each other and forgive whatever grievances you may have against one another. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity. Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, since as members of one body you were called to peace. And be thankful. Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom, and as you sing psalms, hymns and spiritual songs with gratitude in your hearts to God. And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.

Romans 11:16 If the part of the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, then the whole batch is holy; if the root is holy, so are the branches.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Romans 8:15 [Full Chapter]
For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.”

A child does not fear because he knows the father loved him (no greater love has anyone than they give their life for the one they love) and the cross proves that love.

Grace leads to rest, not fear.. Some people like to twist things to make it seem those who admit they sin fear. He is wrong, and he continues to prove after years, he still does not understand grace or the people who are resting in it.

 

[LightLoveHope]

I wonder how I could be discussing with "believers" that being righteous, pure and holy is
possible. We are called to be these things.

The question is rather how and why we fail, unless of course, one believes there is no such
thing as victory for even a moment. When I was a teenager I had this sense of grasping the
word, but it flying away from my heart once I looked away. Now things are very different and
I understand much of what is talked about and shared and would use the same arguments as
the apostles. This confirms to my heart, I know Gods will and perspective.

Now some would call this boasting, except how is a boast to know Gods word, surely that is
our hearts desire. I cannot boast except in that which God calls good, and His word is good.
And I do not believe is self-righteousness or self justification, but rather taking pride in Gods
work in our hearts, and testifying to the power of the Holy Spirit in so doing.

Now the enemy will always hate this, so beware that you fail the test, and side with him.

 

[dcontroversal]

LLH/PETER this is how you come across....

I blah blah blah blah blah blah blah bloviate blah blah blah blah blah blah blah rambling diatribe blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.....

 

[eternally-gratefull]

LLH/PETER this is how you come across....

I blah blah blah blah blah blah blah bloviate blah blah blah blah blah blah blah rambling diatribe blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.....

I have been reading peters old posts.. I forgot how many were a part of a group of people who went to war against grace and are no longer here.

it just sickens me how hard it is for some people to realize what real sin is, and understand the true meaning of grace.