Not By Works

ljs · Feb 14, 2018

omgoodness , i experienced something similar with my daughter when she was in middle school . A certain boy was being really nasty to her , calling her names , etc etc ... , her dad & I told her to stick up for herself and we would be right behind her . One day after several days of cruel remarks by this boy towards her , she went to class , and he was sitting in her seat , she asked him to move , and he wouldnt , so she physically picked him up and removed him to the floor LOL . I was called and went in to the office , and defended her

She was suspended for a few days , but that boy never bothered her again lol

stonesoffire · Feb 14, 2018

ElAmor said:

New International Version 1984 1 Corinthians 5:6-13 Your boasting is not good. Don’t you know that a little yeast works through the whole batch of dough? Get rid of the old yeast that you may be a new batch without yeast—as you really are. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed. Therefore let us keep the Festival, not with the old yeast, the yeast of malice and wickedness, but with bread without yeast, the bread of sincerity and truth. I have written you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat. What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked man from among you.”

~1Co 5:7　 Cleanse out the old leaven that you may be a new lump, as you really are unleavened. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed.

What does this mean...as you really are unleavened?

Magenta · Feb 14, 2018

Y'all are gonna hafta put your swords down for the party!

The Unis continue to gather in eager anticipation of your arrival

stonesoffire · Feb 14, 2018

If one only could.

Speak2Me · Feb 14, 2018

Katy-follower said:

Get into the Greek & prove it.

It's not because you say so.

Of course apostates don't have the Spirit, Duhhh!

No apostate does.

Strong's Concordance

apostasia: defection, revolt

Original Word: ἀποστασία, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: apostasia
Phonetic Spelling: (ap-os-tas-ee'-ah)
Short Definition: defection, apostasy
Definition: defection, apostasy, revolt.

HELPS Word-studies
646 apostasía (from 868 /aphístēmi, "leave, depart," which is derived from 575 /apó, "away from" and 2476 /histémi, "stand") – properly, departure (implying desertion); apostasy – literally, "a leaving, from a previous standing."

NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from aphistémi
Definition
defection, revolt
NASB Translation
apostasy (1), forsake (1).

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 646: ἀποστασία
ἀποστασία, ἀποστασιας, ἡ (ἀφισταμαι), a falling away, defection, apostasy; in the Bible namely, from the true religion: Acts 21:21; 2 Thessalonians 2:3; ((Joshua 22:22; 2 Chronicles 29:19; 2 Chronicles 33:19); Jeremiah 2:19; Jeremiah 36

29) 32 Complutensian; 1 Macc. 2:15). The earlier Greeks say ἀπόστασις; see Lob. ad Phryn., p. 528; (Winer's Grammar, 24).

The "previous state" they left was salvation.

How can a sinner, who never had a place with God, lose it?

NoNameMcgee · Feb 14, 2018

Speak2Me said:

a saved believer cannot actually cease to believe

they are a new creature....

born again

those who believe of God and even for a time retain knowledge of Him
and then fall away

never believed IN Him

and He never placed the new heart and spirit in them
or they surely would have continued in faith

______________
Romans 1:28-29

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

________
1 john

18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

______________

Hebrews 6
6 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

3 And this will we do, if God permit.

___________

there are those who hear the call

but are not chosen

they were not born again or they no doubt would have continued in faith

__________

proof of tasting the Holy spirit but not being born again BECAUSE OF UNBELIEF

7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;

10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;

11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Philippians 1:6
6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ

__________

once you are born again
His incorruptible seed remains in you....

1 peter
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

________

1 peter

23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:

25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

__________

they either leave the knowledge they were given already
never being born again unto being reprobate

or some who He never knew
turn to self righteousness like the pharisees

if they were of us
they would have no doubt continued with us

ElAmor · Feb 14, 2018

dcontroversal said:

What do you mean by "exercise" isn't it to practice and not just say and claim or just a lip service? Do you preach about a genuine saving Faith without doing anything? Is preaching not a work? Assuming that Faith alone saves, can a person have Faith and be saved without someone preaching to them the Gospel of salvation?

If you are a preacher, can you say that you are not doing a work? If it so then what are you doing? Is preaching the Gospel of our salvation irrelevant or unnecessary to our salvation? Does it embellish or add anything to your Faith ALONE doctrine?

ElAmor · Feb 14, 2018

New International Version 1984 Romans 10:8-21 But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming: That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. As the Scripture says, “Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame.” For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? And how can they preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!” But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our message?” Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ. But I ask: Did they not hear? Of course they did: “Their voice has gone out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world.” Again I ask: Did Israel not understand? First, Moses says, “I will make you envious by those who are not a nation; I will make you angry by a nation that has no understanding.” And Isaiah boldly says, “I was found by those who did not seek me; I revealed myself to those who did not ask for me.” But concerning Israel he says, “All day long I have held out my hands to a disobedient and obstinate people.”

ElAmor · Feb 14, 2018

New International Version 1984 1 Corinthians 12:1-31 Spiritual Gifts Now about spiritual gifts, brothers, I do not want you to be ignorant. You know that when you were pagans, somehow or other you were influenced and led astray to mute idols. Therefore I tell you that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit. There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit. There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. There are different kinds of working, but the same God works all of them in all men. Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues. All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines. One Body, Many Parts The body is a unit, though it is made up of many parts; and though all its parts are many, they form one body. So it is with Christ. For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink. Now the body is not made up of one part but of many. If the foot should say, “Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body,” it would not for that reason cease to be part of the body. And if the ear should say, “Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body,” it would not for that reason cease to be part of the body. If the whole body were an eye, where would the sense of hearing be? If the whole body were an ear, where would the sense of smell be? But in fact God has arranged the parts in the body, every one of them, just as he wanted them to be. If they were all one part, where would the body be? As it is, there are many parts, but one body. The eye cannot say to the hand, “I don’t need you!” And the head cannot say to the feet, “I don’t need you!” On the contrary, those parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable, and the parts that we think are less honorable we treat with special honor. And the parts that are unpresentable are treated with special modesty, while our presentable parts need no special treatment. But God has combined the members of the body and has given greater honor to the parts that lacked it, so that there should be no division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other. If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it. Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it. And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues. Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues? Do all interpret? But eagerly desire the greater gifts. Love And now I will show you the most excellent way.

VCO · Feb 14, 2018

Ralph- said:

><> t <><

Maybe you should look at what you are doing, by falsely identifying those who are of the FAITH, and not KNOW what he or she beliefs about our ability about LOVING GOD. It has finally become you are FALSELY ACCUSING, without even investigating their LOVE for JESUS CHRIST and the Father. You have NO IDEA what their Beliefs are, and YET YOU FALSELY CALL THEM A "new grace Believers".

Proverbs 6:16-19 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] There are six things which the LORD hates, Yes, seven which are an abomination to Him:
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, And hands that shed innocent blood,
[SUP]18 [/SUP] A heart that devises wicked plans, Feet that run rapidly to evil,
[SUP]19 [/SUP] A false witness who utters lies, And one who spreads strife among brothers.

NOW, if you are calling that "New Grace Doctrine", as I suspect you are. referring to those who think they are little gods, and who think they are not sinners, we call that NEW AGE DOCTRINE. They have been around since at least the 80's, maybe even longer than that, and NONE OF US BELIEVE THEY ARE A TRUE CHURCH, even though they are claiming to be Calvinist. THEY ARE A PSUEDO CHRISTIAN CULT.

Dr. Dave Hunt identified them as a Cult, and not a True Church years ago, in his book, "The Seduction of Christianity".

Here are some of the Preachers that have fallen for the little gods false Doctrine:

New Age Preachers -

Earl Paulk, Robert Tilton, Kenneth Copeland, E. W. Kenyon, Norman Vincent Peale, Robert H. Schuller, William Branham, M. Scott Peck, Paul C. Vits, Nathanial Branden, Paul Yonggi Cho, Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, Sun Myung Moon, Napolean Hill, Earnest Holmes, David Spangler, Agnus Sanford, Frederick Price, Charles Capps, Kenneth Hagin, Mary Baker Eddy, Francis MacNutt, Brabara Shlemon, etc., etc.

These were the RELIGIOUS Scam Artists that taught New Age Philosophy from the pulpits, many of them claiming to be Calvinists. ALL WERE EXPOSED BY THE SEDUCTION OF CHRISTIANITY, copyrighted in 1985 by DAVE HUNT. ALL OF US, do not recognize those Churches as a Legitimate Church, it is a Psuedo Christian Church.

If the "New Age" is remotely like the "New Grace Doctrine" that you are up in arms about, we are well aware those KINDS of so-called religions are out there, and OUR DOCTRINES ARE AS DIFFERENT AS NIGHT AND DAY, and DO NOT RESEMBLE THOSE CHARALTANS.

I think you owe everyone one that you have confronted an apology.

ElAmor · Feb 14, 2018

New International Version 1984 Ephesians 4:11-32 It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, to prepare God’s people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ. Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming. Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into him who is the Head, that is, Christ. From him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work. Living as Children of Light So I tell you this, and insist on it in the Lord, that you must no longer live as the Gentiles do, in the futility of their thinking. They are darkened in their understanding and separated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardening of their hearts. Having lost all sensitivity, they have given themselves over to sensuality so as to indulge in every kind of impurity, with a continual lust for more. You, however, did not come to know Christ that way. Surely you heard of him and were taught in him in accordance with the truth that is in Jesus. You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires; to be made new in the attitude of your minds; and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness. Therefore each of you must put off falsehood and speak truthfully to his neighbor, for we are all members of one body. “In your anger do not sin”: Do not let the sun go down while you are still angry, and do not give the devil a foothold. He who has been stealing must steal no longer, but must work, doing something useful with his own hands, that he may have something to share with those in need. Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen. And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice. Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you.

dcontroversal · Feb 14, 2018

ElAmor said:

Take 1 second and actually think about and ponder what this thread is about.....serious.....it is about HOW ONE IS SAVED not WHAT THEY DO AFTER THEY ARE SAVED.....it IS FAITH ALONE THAT SAVES.....end of story........!

ElAmor · Feb 14, 2018

New International Version 1984 Romans 12:1-8 Living Sacrifices Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God—this is your spiritual act of worship. Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will. For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment, in accordance with the measure of faith God has given you. Just as each of us has one body with many members, and these members do not all have the same function, so in Christ we who are many form one body, and each member belongs to all the others. We have different gifts, according to the grace given us. If a man’s gift is prophesying, let him use it in proportion to his faith. If it is serving, let him serve; if it is teaching, let him teach; if it is encouraging, let him encourage; if it is contributing to the needs of others, let him give generously; if it is leadership, let him govern diligently; if it is showing mercy, let him do it cheerfully.

UnderGrace · Feb 14, 2018

Your post filled with all your self effort at salvation (works) displays and proves the point precisely .....

how very difficult it is to enter the narrow gate which is Jesus alone and his His work.

It is really not funny at all to laugh at HIS perfect life, HIS complete work and HIS suffering upon the cross for our salvation

It is possible to have a well constructed systematic theology where all the pieces seem to fit and still be wrong....you should re-consider that.... it is faith alone which is the instrument of justification and salvation.

Without this foundational understanding one cannot rightly understand John.

DiscipleDave said:

UnderGrace said:

Quite sad to miss the truth of the narrow path... you said....

Faith without works is a dead faith. Jesus said we are going to be judged by our works. Scriptures teach to make sure to maintain good works. Strange you are teaching something contrary to Scriptures.

lol. seriously laughing out loud on that one, you say it is hard and difficult to believe that you don't have to do nothing at all. lol, lol, lol.

His way is to Love One Another, He even COMMANDED us to "Love One Another" Woe to them who think they don't need to do anything that Grace is sufficient enough to cancel out inspired by God Scriptures, which we are COMMANDED to do.

His way, His Truth, and His life is for us to DO what He commands us to do, to not just be hearers of the Word, but DOERS of the Word, to build our house upon stone, because we are doing what He tells us to do. Woe to them who think that all they need to do is be under Grace, and not Do what He COMMANDS them to do. How will this generation not have to answer this Question by Him? "Why do you call me "Lord" and not do the things that I say" and What does He say "Love One Another" So you can have all the Grace in the world upon you, but if you Fail to do what He commands you to do, no amount of Grace is going to save you.

Loving One Another NO MATTER WHAT is the narrow and difficult path that leads to life everlasting. Woe to those who thinks the narrow and difficult path is believing in GRACE to save them.

Not only giving up every effort to earn your own salvation, but give up your Mom, your Dad, your siblings, your job, your spouse, your kids, YOUR LIFE. That is the narrow and difficult path that only a very few will find, for who in this generation does not LOVE their life. Who does not seek the good life? Who does not seek to be rich, to have more? Who is content with what they have? Who is not out there trying to find their life? He that finds his life shall lose it, but he/she that loses their life shall indeed find it. Who in this generation is willing to die for Jesus Christ? This generation can't even give up a simple sin for Him, let alone give up their life for HIM. What sin do you do that you can't cease from? So then you are not willing to even cease from that sin, yet you think you are willing to give up your life for Christ.

The narrow and difficult path that leads to life everlasting requires a person to give up their life, to be willing to DIE for Jesus Christ, willing to lose all that they have in this life, even down to the very clothes that you wear. If a person is not willing to lose it all, their life included they will never be on the narrow and difficult path that only a few will find.

What? Jesus gave His life for you, but you can't give up sinning for Him? really? Woe to this wicked generation who loves to live in sin, who are unwilling to give up sinning, Cursed children they are is what the Bible calls those who can't cease from sin. There is no sin that you do that you can't cease from, therefore be prepared to answer for yourself on Judgment Day, when Jesus asks you "why?"

And you think that is difficult to do? lol. How easy it would be to think once there, you can't possibly choose to leave it. How easy is it to believe that once you are on that narrow path, that there is nothing you can do whatsoever to leave that path. lol, this is the broad path that many take, they THINK they are on the narrow and difficult path that leads to life everlasting, but in the end there will be much weeping and gnashing of teeth. And it won't be because you were not warned, because God has sent His servant to CC, other, etc.. . And i have told you the TRUTH. But you reject it, in order to hold on to your false securities, your false doctrines, so you don't have to change for the better, namely so you don't have to stop sinning. Those who are knowingly commit sin are of the devil. i don't say that, Scriptures plainly and clearly teaches that TRUTH. But because you hold on to some doctrine that teaches you that it doesn't matter if you obey satan that you are still SAVED, that you are still Heaven bound, Which thing Scriptures does NOT teach, but your false interpretations of Scriptures do teach. Would it not behoove the reader of this post to search out if the things i am saying is TRUE or not, your soul is at stake, you better start finding out of what i am saying is TRUE or not TRUE, before it is too late and you are one of the billions of people who claim to be Christian but are lambs and not sheep, and will be weeping and gnashing their teeth, because they did not know or understand the seriousness of obeying the enemy of God is. This generation would do well to try to abhor any kind of sinning at all. Surely most Christians in this generation will hear this verse on Judgment Day "Your Master is to whom you freely chose to obey" That is Scriptural, that is the TRUTH, that is a TRUE DOCTRINE. Any Doctrine that teaches contrary to that is a false doctrine. You have been exhorted to hearken to the TRUE DOCTRINE.

If you will not hear me, a servant of the Most High God, then will you also ignore the Inspired by God Scriptures:

1Jn 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

Children of the devil are they that knowingly and willingly obey satan and choose to freely sin against God. Use whatever doctrine you want to come up with, that doctrine is not going to alter the above TRUTH one tittle. But this generation refuses to accept the above Scriptures because that would mean they should give up sinning, which thing this generation teaches is not possible to do, even though Jesus plainly told a man a woman to go and sin no more, So then according to His own words it is possible, narrow and difficult, but possible.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

LightLoveHope · Feb 14, 2018

VCO said:

Greeting vco,

You are right, there is a danger believing we know who is one thing or another.
But those who stand with Jesus, it does not matter, other than just shinning a light
on what it means to be real, loving and true.

It is for the believer to acknowledge the truth and their guilt or innocense.
It has always been like this, unless one walks in honesty, all is lost.
Let your "yes" be "yes" and your "no" be "no"

So the conviction about who is who can get people carried away, falling
for the polarization that is just too strong. The enemy will always try as
many tricks as possible, grace to you in the name of Jesus.

LightLoveHope · Feb 14, 2018

Does it matter how well we perceive others or ourselves and the opportunities to serve?
Some appear dedicated to expose self-effort, as if doing things are evil, which implies
doing nothing is good.

The problem with doing good for its own sake, is it is pointless. When you see lonely people
playing for recognition, because they do not see the value they really are in the heart of God,
you just want to help, to help them get free and know, Jesus is the King and He invites all to
follow, to walk in the light, and accept who they are, and just rest in this.

But to do nothing is to watch people die, lost, alone, depressed, hopelessly sinking into a future
of failure and despair. Why is this in a world of wealth and privilege, of safety and security, of
length of life most would not dream is possible? Because without Jesus they do not know what to
value and how to behave. Just look at some comments here and who are their heroes? The heart
declares itself so clearly because it is blind to what matters, and only sees argument and conviction.

And those who see nothing, will stay as they are, because nothing can free them from their self
made delusions. Purity is the key, and Jesus through the cross and shedding His blood is the way.
Grace and peace to you in Jesus Christ Name, Amen.

Katy-follower · Feb 14, 2018

Romans 8 is comforting. And a great eye opening conclusion to the promises of God, where it says "what then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us?" - clearly the enemy wants us to doubt God's promises. This teaching of losing salvation is one of the ways he spreads doubt.

Does anyone know how a child of God goes from being heirs of God to a child of the devil?!? How does wheat become tares? And since Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith, are some suggesting that He fails?

The chapter is too long so just sharing some verses (in context though).....

"But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you"

"For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.” The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together" ("if indeed we suffer" is not a condition but is confirmation that true children of God will suffer like Christ)

"And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. ........Concluding this......... What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things? Who shall bring a charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?"

"For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord"

ElAmor · Feb 14, 2018

dcontroversal said:

And your ANSWERS are....?

New International Version 1984 1 Peter 3:15-16 But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander.

Katy-follower · Feb 14, 2018

Speak2Me said:

So then you just agreed with me that they were never saved to begin with.

Once you're born of the Spirit you're sealed until the day of redemption. You don't go from being born again to unborn to born again. The Holy Spirit does not jump in and out of your body. As Jude confirms, the apostates do not have the Spirit. They are not born again children of God. "They came out from among us for they were not of us". And the book of Jude gives examples of apostates, as I shared in my previous post. Cain was one of them mentioned. He was a child of the devil.

1 John 3:10-12: "In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother. For this is the message that you heard from the beginning, that we should love one another, not as Cain who was of the wicked one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his works were evil and his brother’s righteous"

Speak2Me said:

1 John 2:18-20: "Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us. But you (believers) have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things. I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

The "But you" - distinction made there between believers and non believers.

One end time Antichrist but in the meantime many antichrists. They come out from among us, but are not of us. "Not of us" as in they are non believers who are "of the world," not born of God. Not that they are believers who lose their salvation. They were tares all along. Wheat does not become tares.

Katy-follower · Feb 14, 2018

Katy-follower said:

1 John 4

V 1-3: "Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.

V 4-6: "You are of God, little children, and have overcome them, because He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world. They are of the world. Therefore they speak as of the world, and the world hears them. We are of God. He who knows God hears us; he who is not of God does not hear us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error."

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