Not By Works

[stillness]

For some reason I seem to be in the middle here and have no idea how.

But I do have to say heartfordavid acknowledges that another and different are basically the same. Even though the Greek used are two different words.

Maybe the issues are not the words.

Hi Bill, in the middle, a good place to be and agree the issue is not words, confusion of language goes deeper than understanding that we cant lean on: to accept the need to get past our understanding to go on to Know the Lord.
From a study that began with The dark night of the soul a book that was written 500 years ago at the time of the reformation, by St John of the cross, (He was tortured for his faith and escaped after 9 monts) the verse "Lean not on your own understanding but trust is the Lord." Has new meaning, along with, "If I understand all mysteries and have not Love I am nothing." I used to think Paul was just trying to make a point, and that it was not possible to understand the mystery of God and be nothing, yet it remains that without the Holy spirit I am nothing. Then why did God wait so long to give Himself to us? We can se why in a mystery, only beginning to walk in Love to pray for the spirit of God, there is also a latter rain that we need yet. The study I have also begins to make sense as its not something we can know in understanding but in getting outside the box, our understanding could be compared to a box that Jesus referred to as white washed grave. If you think am exaggerating, think of it as the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and the fruit, our selfish nature. The box, the empty shell of our ego: full of ourselves we are nothing, man down. Much of what I said can be found in the word and argued as well, like that eve was adding to the word by saying that neither were we to touch the fruit of the tree of knowledge, yet it sais "Lean not on your own understanding but trust in the Lord." In engineering trust is power to move forward, to get past our understanding, to get out of the box, to get past ourselves and live in the Lord and obviously we did not have that power without the Holy Spirit. So why so long to enter in Christ. "He came to deliver those who through fear of death were held their whole lifetime in bondage." We fear suffering that is not even real suffering, this light affliction work eternal Resurrection. Better get to the point: It cost Jesus His life and costs us our Life. Unless we forsake everyone and everything and our own live we can't be His disciple.

 

[laymen]

Grace is divine favor extended to those who stand guilty and condemned to die before divine law.the necessity for divine grace arises from the sinners inability to satisfy the demands of the law except by his or own death. Were it possible to change or abolish the divine law there would be no need for grace

 

[DiscipleDave]

So you do so much better than Paul and don't sin. I find you still are too egotistical.

i do all things to please my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, i do not knowingly obey His enemy. What is it to me if YOU find me to egotistical. i thank God that i answer to Him.

Romans 7 NIV

14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!

What you fail and most people in this generation fail to understand is that Paul was a super religious Pharisee. Paul was religious his whole life. What this generation likes to see in Romans Chapter 7 is how a Christian is suppose to live. What they do not understand is Romans Chapter 7 is a description of Paul Miserable Religious Life as a Pharisee. Even at the very end of the Chapter he confirms this, by saying who can help me in this miserable condition that he just described in Chapter 7? Jesus Christ can help him out of that miserable condition that he just described in Chapter 7.

satan has convinced people that Romans Chapter 7 is suppose to be a description of a Christians life, namely doing that which they don't want to do, and not doing what they want to do. Romans Chapter 7 is a description of Paul Religeous life as a PHARISEE. Todays Pharisees think that Romans Chapter 7 is a description of a Christian life, There will be much weeping and gnashing of teeth for those who continue to do what they don't want to do, and not doing those things that they know they should do. Pharisees they are, even today.

So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.

lol, you must not know nor understand that it is the mind that controls what the flesh does or doesn't do when it comes to sin.

my flesh desires to sin constantly, my flesh is evil, and wicked, and comes from the Earth, my flesh is a part of satan kingdom and will return to dust from whence it came. So even though my flesh serves sin, and desires to sin continuously, does NOT mean i have to with my mind comply with that desire?
My flesh serves sin, my mind serves God, know you not that the mind controls what you allow your flesh to do? Do you not understand the very next verse?

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

So those who walk after the flesh and obey its desires, ARE NOT walking after the Spirit are they. There is no more condemnation (Wrath of God upon) those who are in Christ that does not walk after the flesh, but walk only after the Spirit. Believe Scriptures, NOT what men teach you Romans Chapter 7 means.

my flesh serves sin, that is a Fact, but if my mind serves God it will not obey the desires of the flesh, read all of Chapter 8 which condemns obeying the flesh. People need to wake up from their sleeping and hear what God has to tell them.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[NoNameMcgee]

New International Version 1984 James 4:17 Anyone, then, who knows the good he ought to do and doesn’t do it, sins.

Hebrews 10:26-27 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.

geez you dont understand hebrews


because He was the final sacrifice

there remains no more sacrifice for sins as the hebrews did

Hebrews 10
10 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.

3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.

4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.

7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;

9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:

12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.

14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,

16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,

20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;

21 And having an high priest over the house of God;

22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised

24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:

25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.



the enemies that are His footstool

are the adversaries who are devoured


we are they who are sanctified by HIS offering


no more sacrifice remains for any sin

willing

or not

 

[loverofjesus27]

YOU can’t be saved if you keep on sinning!

 

[NoNameMcgee]

YOU can’t be saved if you keep on sinning!

if you think you dont sin you are decieved

1 john 1

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

_____

Phar·i·see
ˈferəˌsē/Submit
noun
a member of an ancient Jewish sect, distinguished by strict observance of the traditional and written law, and commonly held to have pretensions to superior sanctity.
___
a self-righteous person; a hypocrite.


◄ 5330. Pharisaios ►
Strong's Concordance
Pharisaios: a Pharisee, member of a Jewish religious sect
Original Word: Φαρισαῖος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: Pharisaios
Phonetic Spelling: (far-is-ah'-yos)
Short Definition: a Pharisee
Definition: a Pharisee, one of the Jewish sect so called.
HELPS Word-studies
5330 Pharisaíos – properly, "a separatist, a purist"; a Pharisee."

["Pharisee" is derived from the Aramaic term, peras ("to divide and separate"). This literally refers to a "separatist"; hence, a Pharisee was someone "separated from sin."]


________


Romans 10:3
3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

 

[laymen]

Act 17:30 [FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:[/FONT]

 

[NoNameMcgee]

imputed righteousness
Romans
Chapter 4

1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?

2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

________

ephesians 2


7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ

_______

Philippians 3

1 Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not grievous, but for you it is safe.

2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision.

3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:

5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;

6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.

8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,

9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

_________
romans 8
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.


________

1 John 3
3 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

_______

romans 3


19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:

30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith
_______________________

To all who believe.... Doesn't fade

John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Romans 11:29 - For the gifts and calling of God [are] without repentance.

John 5:24 - Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.


John 6:37 - All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

John 10:28 - And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand.

Ephesians 2:8 - For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:

Philippians 1:6 - Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform [it] until the day of Jesus Christ:


1 John Chapter 5

10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

12 He that hath the Son hath life; [and] he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

your performance doesnt EARN salvation

or KEEP salvation


stop patting yourself on the back and give Jesus the glory He deserves


we obey out of love

not necessity

if you think your salvation depends on how you walk
then your faith isnt in Jesus but its in yourself

 

[stillness]

Grace is divine favor extended to those who stand guilty and condemned to die before divine law. the necessity for divine grace arises from the sinners inability to satisfy the demands of the law except by his or own death. Were it possible to change or abolish the divine law there would be no need for grace

What about the abolishing of law, is Grace, as saying the same thing differently, or "if there was law that could bring life Righteousness would have been by the Law." I mean that I see your side of the coin, and happen to live where things are turned upside down, think of it as the work of a plow that overturned the soil for the word to have good ground. "Break up your fallow ground, awaken from your sleep and the God od Love will supply your every need." Judah means plowman and praise, the meaning: as we live foe the praise of God there is a man to till the ground: Our hard hearts are broken so that His word can be sown and take root. "Whoever stumbles against Him will be broken, but whoever resists Him will be ground to powder." God breaks our hearts to enlarge our territory. "except a grain of wheat falls in the ground and dies it remains alone, but if it dies it bears much fruit.

 

[VCO]

You can kiss traditional once saved always saved goodbye. It's being quickly replaced by the new once saved always saved that says a 'believer' can deny Christ and go back to his old life (or have never left it) and they are still saved because salvation is not by works.

NOT HERE, and yes I know the phony Christians are here in flock, BUT WE WANT THEM HERE:

Romans 10:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

 

[DiscipleDave]

Quite sad to miss the truth of the narrow path... you said....

So few that it will be like one out of thousand and two out of two hundred thousand. Many people in this generation think they are on the narrow and difficult path, really? difficult? the path that you are on right now, is difficult, how so?

The True Gospel....

Grace plus works is the broad path.

Faith without works is a dead faith. Jesus said we are going to be judged by our works. Scriptures teach to make sure to maintain good works. Strange you are teaching something contrary to Scriptures.

The grace alone position requires us to admit that we have nothing to offer God that is why it is narrow and hard….

lol. seriously laughing out loud on that one, you say it is hard and difficult to believe that you don't have to do nothing at all. lol, lol, lol.

It is the albatross of human pride or fear that hold us back from complete abandon to His way, His truth and His Life.

His way is to Love One Another, He even COMMANDED us to "Love One Another" Woe to them who think they don't need to do anything that Grace is sufficient enough to cancel out inspired by God Scriptures, which we are COMMANDED to do.

His way, His Truth, and His life is for us to DO what He commands us to do, to not just be hearers of the Word, but DOERS of the Word, to build our house upon stone, because we are doing what He tells us to do. Woe to them who think that all they need to do is be under Grace, and not Do what He COMMANDS them to do. How will this generation not have to answer this Question by Him? "Why do you call me "Lord" and not do the things that I say" and What does He say "Love One Another" So you can have all the Grace in the world upon you, but if you Fail to do what He commands you to do, no amount of Grace is going to save you.

Loving One Another NO MATTER WHAT is the narrow and difficult path that leads to life everlasting. Woe to those who thinks the narrow and difficult path is believing in GRACE to save them.

The price is very high to enter through that narrow gate (Jesus)....it means giving up every effort to earn our own salvation...yes indeed few find it.

Not only giving up every effort to earn your own salvation, but give up your Mom, your Dad, your siblings, your job, your spouse, your kids, YOUR LIFE. That is the narrow and difficult path that only a very few will find, for who in this generation does not LOVE their life. Who does not seek the good life? Who does not seek to be rich, to have more? Who is content with what they have? Who is not out there trying to find their life? He that finds his life shall lose it, but he/she that loses their life shall indeed find it. Who in this generation is willing to die for Jesus Christ? This generation can't even give up a simple sin for Him, let alone give up their life for HIM. What sin do you do that you can't cease from? So then you are not willing to even cease from that sin, yet you think you are willing to give up your life for Christ.

The narrow and difficult path that leads to life everlasting requires a person to give up their life, to be willing to DIE for Jesus Christ, willing to lose all that they have in this life, even down to the very clothes that you wear. If a person is not willing to lose it all, their life included they will never be on the narrow and difficult path that only a few will find.

What? Jesus gave His life for you, but you can't give up sinning for Him? really? Woe to this wicked generation who loves to live in sin, who are unwilling to give up sinning, Cursed children they are is what the Bible calls those who can't cease from sin. There is no sin that you do that you can't cease from, therefore be prepared to answer for yourself on Judgment Day, when Jesus asks you "why?"

Once we enter the narrow gate we are His eternally and for ever more!! Amen

And you think that is difficult to do? lol. How easy it would be to think once there, you can't possibly choose to leave it. How easy is it to believe that once you are on that narrow path, that there is nothing you can do whatsoever to leave that path. lol, this is the broad path that many take, they THINK they are on the narrow and difficult path that leads to life everlasting, but in the end there will be much weeping and gnashing of teeth. And it won't be because you were not warned, because God has sent His servant to CC, other, etc.. . And i have told you the TRUTH. But you reject it, in order to hold on to your false securities, your false doctrines, so you don't have to change for the better, namely so you don't have to stop sinning. Those who are knowingly commit sin are of the devil. i don't say that, Scriptures plainly and clearly teaches that TRUTH. But because you hold on to some doctrine that teaches you that it doesn't matter if you obey satan that you are still SAVED, that you are still Heaven bound, Which thing Scriptures does NOT teach, but your false interpretations of Scriptures do teach. Would it not behoove the reader of this post to search out if the things i am saying is TRUE or not, your soul is at stake, you better start finding out of what i am saying is TRUE or not TRUE, before it is too late and you are one of the billions of people who claim to be Christian but are lambs and not sheep, and will be weeping and gnashing their teeth, because they did not know or understand the seriousness of obeying the enemy of God is. This generation would do well to try to abhor any kind of sinning at all. Surely most Christians in this generation will hear this verse on Judgment Day "Your Master is to whom you freely chose to obey" That is Scriptural, that is the TRUTH, that is a TRUE DOCTRINE. Any Doctrine that teaches contrary to that is a false doctrine. You have been exhorted to hearken to the TRUE DOCTRINE.

If you will not hear me, a servant of the Most High God, then will you also ignore the Inspired by God Scriptures:

1Jn 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

Children of the devil are they that knowingly and willingly obey satan and choose to freely sin against God. Use whatever doctrine you want to come up with, that doctrine is not going to alter the above TRUTH one tittle. But this generation refuses to accept the above Scriptures because that would mean they should give up sinning, which thing this generation teaches is not possible to do, even though Jesus plainly told a man a woman to go and sin no more, So then according to His own words it is possible, narrow and difficult, but possible.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[NoNameMcgee]

NOT HERE, and yes I know the phony Christians are here in flock, BUT WE WANT THEM HERE:

Romans 10:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

right..

i hope God opens their eyes...
its a shame so many look to their own walk for assurance

when God demands perfection

(only through the imputed righteousness of Jesus)

 

[laymen]

What about the abolishing of law, is Grace, as saying the same thing differently, or "if there was law that could bring life Righteousness would have been by the Law." I mean that I see your side of the coin, and happen to live where things are turned upside down, think of it as the work of a plow that overturned the soil for the word to have good ground. "Break up your fallow ground, awaken from your sleep and the God od Love will supply your every need." Judah means plowman and praise, the meaning: as we live foe the praise of God there is a man to till the ground: Our hard hearts are broken so that His word can be sown and take root. "Whoever stumbles against Him will be broken, but whoever resists Him will be ground to powder." God breaks our hearts to enlarge our territory. "except a grain of wheat falls in the ground and dies it remains alone, but if it dies it bears much fruit.

Grace is divine favor extended to those who stand guilty and condemned to die before divine law. the necessity for divine grace arises from the sinners inability to satisfy the demands of the law except by his or own death. Were it possible to change or abolish the divine law there would be no need for grace

Jesus was the one who did every thing in the law to save us, so we have grace. But Jesus does not abolish the law it will still condemn us if we do not have grace

 

[DiscipleDave]

Originally Posted by DiscipleDave

Should i believe you or what Scriptures teach?

You have failed to answer me when i ask you a few simple questions. The reason you don't answer them, is because if you do answer them it proves that what you believe is WRONG. i will present the questions to you again, which we will see if you answer.

Can a Believer (Saved person) deny Jesus Christ?
Can a Believer (Saved person) hate someone?
Can a Believer (Saved person) not forgive someone else?

Now remember,
Scriptures teach that if a person denies Jesus they are not going to Heaven.
Scriptures teach that if a person hates someone they do not know the TRUTH and it is not in them and do not have Jesus.
Scriptures teach that if you do not forgive others, then the Father will NOT forgive you.

So then can a Saved person deny Jesus and they do not lose their Salvation?
Can a Saved person hate someone, and they still have their Salvation even though the TRUTH is not in them?
Can a Saved person have unforgiveness in their hearts and still be Saved, even though the FATHER will NOT forgiven them?

Can you answer these questions?
Will you answer these questions?
And if you do answer these questions, are they answers to these questions or not answers at all but an attempt to skirt around answering them. We shall see.

i imagine you will say nothing at all. Because if you do, it will only PROVE that what you believe is incorrect.

Look....a self appointed prophet you are not...your drivel does not even come close to biblical.....works do not save or keep saved and salvation is eternally secure in Christ...

i see you did not answer one question presented, why is that?

You don't know the answer to them, or unwilling to answer them? If you did not answer the previous questions, am i right to assume you will not answer this question either. So then do what you do, and mock me some more, instead of having a conversation with me and answer my questions.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[stillness]

YOU can’t be saved if you keep on sinning!

This is why salvation is not completed (except by Faith), until the end of our life, "For we are saved if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end." When we fall and get up by Grace we merely fel to a lower step of salvation than living for the praise of God. Concerning the work of God in steps it was against the law in the old testament. And had trouble with this many years. "When you build an alter you shall not build it with steps less your nakedness be exposed thereon." Yet in Revelation the Lord counsels the church that needs to receive Him to bye of Him white garment to cover the shame of their nakedness. Included the part of the study, about the steps.

As we follow, much is revealed through Love:
“A new commandment I give to you, that you Love one another; as I have Loved you, that you also Love one another.”
When friendship is spiritual the Love of God influences us to go on to know the Lord: to find the secret ladder of Contemplation ascending to treasures of Heaven. "Verily, verily, I say to you, hereafter you shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man." This ladder Jacob saw by night as he slept, the angels of God ascending and descending on it, and behold, the Lord stood above it."
A secret ladder hidden from understanding, wisdom we see dimly, causing us to cease from ourselves in language of God. "Blessed are those whose strength is in you, whose hearts are set on pilgrimage.” Humbled and raised up to God in this ladder we suffer many ups and downs: to keep watch ascending and descending until we enter into rest. The last step of this ladder of Love belongs not in this life, but assimilated to God. Until that day there remains secret Love: to rise above all things, above ourselves and mount up to God; Carried in profound retreat and raised to enter Love. On higher steps much is revealed through Love, different from visions and dreams interpreted and described. This night of the spirit could be years after the night of following Christ in our understanding, but having experienced Him won’t be forgotten. Night comes and then dawn, having serenity and fellowship in community without hindrances as before; seeing dimly the reality of the kingdom of heaven within.

In the night of the Spirit we are carried by the Holy Spirit in the sufferings of Christ. In both accounts of outpouring of the Holy Spirit there was unity in prayer. Acts 2 "They were all with one accord in one place." In the later account, believers already have the Holy Spirit and prayed to stand with boldness against persecution. Acts 4:31 “And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spoke the word of God with boldness, and the multitude of them that believed, were of one heart and one soul."

"Through much trouble we enter the wisdom of God."
"He will cause to come down for you the rain, the former rain, and the latter rain as in the beginning."
"Ask and it shall be given, seek and you shall find, knock and it shall be opened."
"Let us go on to perfection and this we will do if God permits." To yield ourselves to God in affliction, our understanding affections and will in affliction as we are touched by grief of the Love of God. "As Christ suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin." “I the man has seen affliction by the rod of his wrath. He has led me in darkness and not light… He has walled me in so that I can’t get out; He has made my chain heavy... My soul still has remembrance and is humbled in me. This I recall to mind, therefore have I hope, the Lord's mercies that we are not consumed; His compassions fail not, new every morning: Your great faithfulness.”

 

[stillness]

I should mention there were many mistakes in the former version posted, Have spent much time editing and have not yet finish to post an update.

 

[ElAmor]

geez you dont understand hebrews


because He was the final sacrifice

there remains no more sacrifice for sins as the hebrews did

Hebrews 10
10 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.

3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.

4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.

7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;

9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:

12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.

14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,

16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,

20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;

21 And having an high priest over the house of God;

22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised

24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:

25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.



the enemies that are His footstool

are the adversaries who are devoured


we are they who are sanctified by HIS offering


no more sacrifice remains for any sin

willing

or not

Mark 7:6-15,17-23 He replied, “Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written: “‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.’ You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men.” And he said to them: “You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe your own traditions! For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.’ But you say that if a man says to his father or mother: ‘Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is Corban’ (that is, a gift devoted to God), then you no longer let him do anything for his father or mother. Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that.” Again Jesus called the crowd to him and said, “Listen to me, everyone, and understand this. Nothing outside a man can make him ‘unclean’ by going into him. Rather, it is what comes out of a man that makes him ‘unclean.’” After he had left the crowd and entered the house, his disciples asked him about this parable. “Are you so dull?” he asked. “Don’t you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him ‘unclean’? For it doesn’t go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body.” (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods “clean.”) He went on: “What comes out of a man is what makes him ‘unclean.’ For from within, out of men’s hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. All these evils come from inside and make a man ‘unclean.’”

Titus 1:15-16 To the pure, all things are pure, but to those who are corrupted and do not believe, nothing is pure. In fact, both their minds and consciences are corrupted. They claim to know God, but by their actions they deny him. They are detestable, disobedient and unfit for doing anything good.

New International Version 1984 1 Corinthians 15:50-58 I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.” “Where, O death, is your victory? Where, O death, is your sting?” The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, my dear brothers, stand firm. Let nothing move you. Always give yourselves fully to the work of the Lord, because you know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain.




1 Corinthians 13:2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.

Romans 3:3-4 What if some did not have faith? Will their lack of faith nullify God’s faithfulness? Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written: “So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge.”

Luke 6:46 “Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?

John 14:15 “If you love me, you will obey what I command.

 

[dcontroversal]

i see you did not answer one question presented, why is that?

You don't know the answer to them, or unwilling to answer them? If you did not answer the previous questions, am i right to assume you will not answer this question either. So then do what you do, and mock me some more, instead of having a conversation with me and answer my questions.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

One question...you asked three and it does no good to enter into dialogue with a self proclaimed prophet that believes that JESUS will call him by his CC name and reference his CC teaching in the day of judgment to to judge people and send them to hell....and or a an whose own website promotes a type of reincarnation...

 

[dcontroversal]

This is why salvation is not completed (except by Faith), until the end of our life, "For we are saved if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end." When we fall and get up by Grace we merely fel to a lower step of salvation than living for the praise of God. Concerning the work of God in steps it was against the law in the old testament. And had trouble with this many years. "When you build an alter you shall not build it with steps less your nakedness be exposed thereon." Yet in Revelation the Lord counsels the church that needs to receive Him to bye of Him white garment to cover the shame of their nakedness. Included the part of the study, about the steps.

As we follow, much is revealed through Love:
“A new commandment I give to you, that you Love one another; as I have Loved you, that you also Love one another.”
When friendship is spiritual the Love of God influences us to go on to know the Lord: to find the secret ladder of Contemplation ascending to treasures of Heaven. "Verily, verily, I say to you, hereafter you shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man." This ladder Jacob saw by night as he slept, the angels of God ascending and descending on it, and behold, the Lord stood above it."
A secret ladder hidden from understanding, wisdom we see dimly, causing us to cease from ourselves in language of God. "Blessed are those whose strength is in you, whose hearts are set on pilgrimage.” Humbled and raised up to God in this ladder we suffer many ups and downs: to keep watch ascending and descending until we enter into rest. The last step of this ladder of Love belongs not in this life, but assimilated to God. Until that day there remains secret Love: to rise above all things, above ourselves and mount up to God; Carried in profound retreat and raised to enter Love. On higher steps much is revealed through Love, different from visions and dreams interpreted and described. This night of the spirit could be years after the night of following Christ in our understanding, but having experienced Him won’t be forgotten. Night comes and then dawn, having serenity and fellowship in community without hindrances as before; seeing dimly the reality of the kingdom of heaven within.

In the night of the Spirit we are carried by the Holy Spirit in the sufferings of Christ. In both accounts of outpouring of the Holy Spirit there was unity in prayer. Acts 2 "They were all with one accord in one place." In the later account, believers already have the Holy Spirit and prayed to stand with boldness against persecution. Acts 4:31 “And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spoke the word of God with boldness, and the multitude of them that believed, were of one heart and one soul."

"Through much trouble we enter the wisdom of God."
"He will cause to come down for you the rain, the former rain, and the latter rain as in the beginning."
"Ask and it shall be given, seek and you shall find, knock and it shall be opened."
"Let us go on to perfection and this we will do if God permits." To yield ourselves to God in affliction, our understanding affections and will in affliction as we are touched by grief of the Love of God. "As Christ suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin." “I the man has seen affliction by the rod of his wrath. He has led me in darkness and not light… He has walled me in so that I can’t get out; He has made my chain heavy... My soul still has remembrance and is humbled in me. This I recall to mind, therefore have I hope, the Lord's mercies that we are not consumed; His compassions fail not, new every morning: Your great faithfulness.”

Verb tense and many scriptures refute the highlighted above........

was saved
am saved
continuing to be saved

it is a present reality from a past completed action with present continuing results....

 

[DiscipleDave]

Father is indeed Holy. I agree. He is pure Light, flesh which is fallen cannot approach without covering of innocent blood, because nature is in blood. I have yet to understand Moses unless he was sprinkled. Need to check that.

But, the regenerated spirit of the children of God is pure and holy. The Spirit of Christ is received in this part of our being. In Christ. Soul however, needs to be brought up to speed so to speak. So we all are at different levels of soul salvation.

We cannot judge each other as not saved by actions. We can know however, by the words of our mouth. No one can say Jesus,is Lord except by Holy Spirit.

Words to not prove it either. The Parable of the sheep being separated from the goats reveals that TRUTH. Both called Jesus "Lord" Which they could not have done without the Holy Ghost, so they believed that Jesus was the Lord, by calling Him "Lord" yet Jesus says the goats are rejected from being with Him, because the goats, who profess the Lord, did not LOVE ONE ANOTHER, as Jesus Commanded us Christians to do.

Also Scriptures plainly teaches us we can know who is in Christ and who is not in Christ by their fruits.

Mat_12:33 Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.

So then Scriptures teach we will know a good tree from a bad tree by the fruits they freely choose to produce.

Luk 6:43 For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. For every tree is known by his own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes. A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.

These verses plainly teach us that we can know who is good and who is evil by the fruits which they produce.

Jas 3:11 Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter? Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh. (LUKEWARM)

Good Trees ONLY produce Good fruit.
Any Tree, no matter what they claim with their mouths, that produce any bad fruits, is a Bad TREE.

So then we can know who is with Jesus and who is against Jesus by the fruits that they freely choose to produce. No Good tree will produce any bad fruits, this is the narrow and difficult path that only a few will find. The broad path is those who profess they are Christian yet they produce some bad fruits, these are Lukewarm Christians, they obey both Jesus and satan, they do that which is righteous and that which is unrighteous, they do good things they also do evil things. Jesus will spew them out of His mouth.

Scriptures plainly teach those who do righteousness are Righteous. Those who do unrighteousness, ARE UNRIGHTEOUS.

Woe to this generation indeed which holds onto every doctrine which does not condemn sinning. Doctrine of Grace allows sinning correct? Doctrine of OSAS allows sinning correct? Doctrine of Faith only allows sinning correct? Doctrine of being under the Blood of Jesus allows sinning correct? Doctrine of Righteousness allows sinning correct? All these doctrines are false. Is there a True Doctrine of Grace, yes, one without sinning. Is there a True Doctrine of Faith, sure there is one without sinning. Is there a True Doctrine of being under the Blood of Jesus, sure there is for those who do not live in sin. Is there a True Doctrine of Righteousness, sure there is one without doing that which is unrighteous. Any Doctrine no matter what it is that allows the obeying of Jesus Christ enemy is a false doctrine. Sin is evil, sin is wicked, sin is not of God, sin is contrary to God, sin is opposite of God, sin is not to be condoned but abhored. sin is not to be embraced but forbidden. sin is not to be willingly committed but refused to be in a persons life.
satan whispers "commit that sin" Jesus whispers "please don't obey him" Who you choose to obey is your Master and Lord. And it does not matter what you believe or what you say, or what doctrines you hold on to, that is the TRUTH. Who you choose to obey is your master. Know you not that when you are tempted to commit sin, that you deny Jesus Christ. Jesus makes it so that the temptation is not so strong that you can't handle it, this you deny. Jesus allows a path out of every single temptation that comes upon you, this path you also deny? Why? Because this generation loves to sin, and then they use doctrines that wipe away that sin, so that they do not have to pay the consequences of that sin, even though Scriptures teach we will reap what we sow, and if we sow to the flesh of the flesh we shall reap corruption.

Believe what the book says.

Amen, the Holy Book says sin is evil, and it says "Awake to righteousness and sin not" Yes for sure, believe the Book and not what men teach you.

And what good Father wants a child of his own DNA, to tremble in fear of disobedience?

my children did what i told them, because they knew that if they did not, that i would whip them. How much did i have to whip, very few times in their life. Why? i did not have to whip them, they knew that i would whip them. Therefore for fear of punishment, they were very obedient children, well behaved, and well mannered to this very day. Spare the rod and you will have spoiled children. i love them dearly, and they love me dearly to this very day.

True obedience will come through being accepted in love, and seeing the goodness of the Lord.

That sounds like the recipe for spoiled children. Children who do not fear punishment from their parents do whatever they want to do, because there is not repercussion for doing otherwise. lol. spoiled children is what this generation are. They live in sins all the while thinking they good obedient children of God, do they not?

Again, we repent when we understand the goodness of the Lord. And run to Him when we do fail, not away.

Remember Adam hid.

Remember Adam was severely punished as well, the woman with him. So believe me, when they suffered for their ONE SIN, they thought twice about sinning again against God. Isn't it written that God punishes those that He loves? Isn't it written that we will reap what we sow? Isn't it written that we will repay for the wrong which we have done? Isn't it written if you sow to the flesh then you WILL suffer corruption in that flesh. These verses should be reason enough to fear God, These verses alone should be enough to cause a person to want to stop sinning, But what do we see with this deceived generation, we see them sinning on a daily bases with no fear whatsoever for the punishment that is going to come upon them for their own choices to live in sin. Why? Because they hold on to some false doctrine that teaches it is OK, that somehow they are not going to have to be punished for their own sinning. Woe to this generation which chooses to believe doctrines of men over what Scriptures plainly teach.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave