The Rapture

[CS1]

We as Christians must be like the term “Dynamic tension”

We are to preach and live for Jesus as though HE is returning today. YET have the Patience of 1000 years. Too much, “HE coming NOW!” We end up hiding in the woods with a years or more supply of food and stuff. Then the other extreme “we have a lot of time “so we procrastinate. Or have no urgency to reach the lost. We are to be ready and yet wait. Jesus is coming son but be patience

 

[DiscipleDave]

.. . . .. .. . . .. And the Rapture and the Second Coming cannot be simultaneous. That would be like asking an elevator to go up and down at the same time. An absurdity.

Scriptures please? Where in Scriptures does it teach they are NOT the same event? Scriptures please? Thanks.

People, God told me that when Jesus comes back the second time, He is here to STAY. When Christ comes back a second time it is at that time He gathers up the Church. It is at that time that the Holy City comes down WITH Jesus Christ. It is at that time that the Father is here on Earth in the Holy City. It is at that time that Jesus will reign over all the kingdoms of this world and all nations will become His nations. NOTHING that i just said here that God told me is contrary to any verse in all of Scriptures.

This generation teaches things that are NOT in Scriptures at all. For example
This generation teaches the HOLY City comes down after the thousand years (Not found in any Scriptures)
It teaches that Jesus comes a second time then GOES BACK TO HEAVEN (Not found in any Scriptures)
It teaches that Jesus comes to the Earth a THIRD time (Not found in any Scriptures)
It teaches that Jesus Raptures the Church prior to Great Tribulation (Not found in any Scriptures)
It teaches that Jesus Raptures the Church after the Great Tribulation (Not found in any Scriptures)
It teaches that when we are Raptured we go to Heaven (Not found in any Scriptures)

ALL these things are doctrines of men, and do NOT come from Scriptures nor from God. These doctrines have come about because of men's interpretation of end time events, they all are in error.

God told me many times this statement:

"If what you believe contradicts even one verse in Scriptures then what you believe is WRONG"

What i tell you, that God told me, is NOT wrong, there is NOTHING that i have said concerning the end times and what IS going to happen, is contrary to any verse in all of Scriptures. What i teach is ONLY contrary to the interpretations of men and their opinions of what they think the TRUTH is.
Those who hear those things that He has told me, hears God.

i challenge any person, learned or otherwise, to find one verse that is contrary to anything that i say below, ONE VERSE.

Jesus comes back the second time, He gathers up the Church.
Jesus comes back the second time, He is bringing the Holy City with Him.
Jesus is NOT going back to Heaven after getting here the second time.
The Saints do NOT go to HEAVEN after being Raptured,
Jesus comes back at the 7th Trumpet sounding.
At the 7th Trumpet all kingdoms of the world then belong to Jesus.
At the 7th Trumpet the dead are raised.
At the 7th Trumpet the Saints are rewarded.
At the second return of Jesus He will reign over the nations with a rod.
Many nations will come and serve Jesus who is in the Holy City whether they want to or not.

And many, many more things He has told me. You will not find ONE verse that contradicts anything that i have said above, ONLY your opinions and your own interpretations will contradict what God has told me will happen. Oh that this generation would be like the Bereans and search out the Scriptures to see if what i am saying is TRUE or not True. But this generation is not like the Bereans but are like the Nicolaitans, who because what i say does not line up with what they believe they will not go to the Scriptures nor give what i say a second thought, because it does not line up with the truth they think they have.

If you would do this one thing, i assure you with no doubts whatsoever, that God will open your eyes to this TRUTH. If you believe what God has told me, and reread the whole Bible front to back with this knowledge, then you will see and understand all prophesies fit into what God has told me, you will absolutely be amazed how Scriptures plainly teaches what God has told me, but until you discard what you think is the TRUTH, the TRUTH will elude you. Forget what you think you know, and let God work in you with HIS TRUTHS. and not the truths of men.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[DiscipleDave]

What else do you call it when they say the opposite of what somebody else posted? Some even have "I'm right the world is wrong!" attitude!

God is right, and what God tells people is also RIGHT. What the world believes (myself included) is most certainly wrong.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[DiscipleDave]

I've always thought we are at the end of the revelation. We are human and even though we study we cannot always fully understand the scriptures.

This is True to a degree. However in the last days, God will reveal to whom God will reveal. Like a last chance to get people to walk the straight and narrow, instead of living in sin. He loves us that much, that when the end gets closer and closer, more and more of His servants the prophets will appear to teach this generation things that God has revealed to them. He loves us that much, and He is doing this today.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[DiscipleDave]

I traveled to Israel for business and one time took my wife. We visited that wall. Jews write messages on thin paper and stick them in the wall. To the left there is an opening in a building and a table and chairs are used by some rabbis.

One of my greatest desires is to walk where Jesus actually walked in Israel.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[DiscipleDave]

On the other side of the wall there is a courtyard with two Muslim buildings. The one has a roof over a rock sticking up through the courtyard. There is bannister going around the rock. One corner has the posts by a corner broken off. Muslim women who want to get pregnant go through the holes in the barrister with their back brushing against the rock. This is the supposed site where Abraham was supposed to sacrisacr Isaac. About a hundred feet or so there is a mosque called Dome of the Rock. This courtyard is where the temple was. To rebuild the temple there the muslims would go bonkers. Both sites would be destroyed. There are caves under this courtyard and Muslims don't want Jews going in them but can't keep the rabbis out. What was found is kept secret but rumoru galore.

The actual site of the Ancient Temple is lost to us. The Jews are not sure where the Holy of Holies actually is, it is only assumed that it is where the Dome of the Rock is today, but they really don't know where it was. Just wanted to point that out.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[DiscipleDave]

By the way, it wasn't Disciple Dave that said he had spoken with an Angel. It was me.

Thank you for that, i have told him many times that it was not angels, but he would not hear it from me, maybe now he will realize he was in error and apologize. We shall see.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[DiscipleDave]

Originally Posted by Roadkill

By the way, it wasn't Disciple Dave that said he had spoken with an Angel. It was me.

It was also DiscipleDave, for he also has claimed that God spoke to him.

Since when is saying an Angel spoke to me is the same as saying God spoke to me? i have never said an angel spoke to me concerning any end time events, this is a lie, which seem you now condone, if you agree with that lie.

The only difference is that the claims that he was making were/are in contradiction to the word of God.

lol. just because Ahwatukee claims it is contrary to the Word of God does not make it the TRUTH, now does it brother? You have yet to show one thing that i have said this is contrary to Scriptures, NOT ONE VERSE. Sure you show me all the verses that YOU interpret to mean this or that, and YOUR intepretation of the Word of God contradicts what i say is from God, but that is just YOUR INTERPRETATION and NOT what the Word of God actually teaches. i have asked you many question concerning what you believe to be the TRUTH, questions that PROVE what you believe is in error, but do you answer those questions, no way, they would prove you wrong. What questions do you have for me that would prove what i say is from God? Do you have one? lol. just because you say (without showing one shred of evidence) that i teach contrary to the Word of God does not make it so. So let us be honest here. What i teach does not contradict Scriptures, what i teach contradicts YOUR interpretations of what YOU think the TRUTH is, lets get real shall we?

Therefore we could already tell that they were not true. The problem with his and your claim, is that you would be the only people in the world to receive these teachings which are not written in the word of God, which means that there is no way for us to check that information to see if what you are saying is true.

lol, again, you speak in error, as if God did not allow a way for us Christians to determine what is false and what is not false. There is a way for you to check if someone says something TRUE or says something FALSE, even though YOU think there isn't a way to do so, and that way is SCRIPTURES. Is someone says something contrary to a single verse in Scriptures what that person is saying is false, and they do not know the TRUTH. If what they are saying does not contradict a single verse in Scriptures then what they are saying may very well be the TRUTH. YOU gauge who has the TRUTH and who does not have the TRUTH based on if what they are saying lines up with what YOU BELIEVE to be the TRUTH.

You claim that what i teach is not from God because what i teach is contrary to the Word of God, but do not show where i have done this, NO, what you will do is reveal verses that you interpret the way YOU interpret them and then say what i teach is contrary to Scriptures, but they are NOT contrary to Scriptures, but are indeed contrary to YOUR INTERPRETATIONS of what that verse means. You do realize there is a difference right?

Anyone who has read posts between you and i, can plainly see you do not answer those questions that i present to you because by answering them would prove without doubt that what you believe is in fact, error. You teach the Holy City comes to the Earth at the very end, during a time when sinners are not even present, i have asked you to explain many verses which plainly teach there are sinners present during the time of the Holy City, what do i get in response? NOTHING? Why? Because you can't or won't recognize all those verses which are plainly CONTRARY to what you think is the TRUTH. Then you turn around and say concerning me that i teach things contrary to Scriptures and give NOTHING to support that accusation against me, Do you think that is Godly Brother? You accuse me of teaching something contrary to Scriptures, then right now tell me one thing that i have said and then show the verse (NOT YOUR OPINION) Show me the actual verse that contradicts what i say, else you are just blowing smoke in the air, falsely accusing a brother in Christ just because what he teaches does not line up with YOU. Will you answer or choose to once again back down from this?

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[DiscipleDave]

If it is not in the word of God, then there is no way to prove it, Period! It would mean that everyone in the world would have to take your word on it. This reminds me of how cults are started, with one guy claiming that God speaks directly to him and that everyone should follow him and believe what he says. One of the of the purposes of God's word is that we can tell those who are in agreement with the word of God and who isn't. God gave us all the information of end-time events that He wanted us to know and had it written down. I don't know who you spoke with, but it was not an angel of God.

If what he says does not contradict what Scriptures teach then i would listen to him, but if what he says an Angel told him contradicts even one verse in Scriptures, then he is listening to a devil saying he is an angel.

lol. in every single cult that was evil, they always taught things that were contrary to what the Word of God taught. ALWAYS.

What then, demons don't talk to people? Do you all think that demons don't talk to people. If then you know that demons do talk to people, why would you think God or Angels of God would not talk to people too? Where in all of Scriptures does it teach that Angels no longer talk to people? Really, there is not one verse that says they stop talking to people, who then is teaching that they no longer talk to people? Tell me Would it be in satans best interest if people did not believe God talks to people any more? Would it be in satans best interest if people believed Angels of God don't talk to people any more? YES and YES. satan has decieved the people of the last days generation to believe that Prophets no longer exist. that Angels of God no longer talk to people, that God does not talk to anyone anymore like He has always done in the past to people. lol. sometimes i just have to laugh out loud how gullible and duped this generation is. Like trying to explain flying to a fish. or Color to someone born blind. This generation chooses to be blind, and they love it. There is a doctrine that God and Angels do not speak to people any more. This doctrine did NOT come from Scriptures AT ALL. it comes from satan. There is a doctrine that Prophets no longer exist, or if they do, they can't predict the future, this doctrine did NOT come from Scriptures AT ALL, it comes from satan. satan teaches you can continue to live in sin, and still go to Heaven, this doctrine is not Scriptural but comes from satan himself.

This generation is blind, but not because they have to be blind, they absolutely choose to reject the TRUTH given to them by God, and choose to remain blind. And when billions of Christians fall into a ditch, there will be much weeping and gnashing of teeth on that day, When Christ returns to the EARTH with POWER the SECOND TIME, and they are NOT taken up to be with Him where He is, and He will be in the Holy City with His Bride, and we Saints at His Second Coming will partake with Him (in the Holy City) of the marriage supper. That feast is going to be absolutely AMAZING, i can't wait till my Glorified eyes looks upon that. Lord put me to sleep now, i'm am so ready.

Behold, i am still here, Why? Because of you, i will continue to teach you what God has told me. He loves you that much.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[DiscipleDave]

I did not write May 18th, knuckle head. Get it right. I wrote in May of 2018 that they would break ground for the Temple Mount. It's going to be right beside the Al-Aqsa Mosque. It is politically impossible for me to know this at this time.

Disciple Dave said he spoke to God in his Dreams.

So who died and said you were the one who says they speak to God or an Angel or not? Curious to see what you say when you stand before God.

Agreed that prophets of God were 100 percent correct on their prophecies. That is not what I'm claiming to be. I am no prophet. I'm not worthy of that classification. I have opportunity to speak with a Cherubim Angel. I do not speak or see God or have visions which I see God or Jesus or the Holy Ghost.

True enough if this does not occur in May of 2018 then it is not from God the Father and take everything I've written and flush it down the drain. Just get it right. Remember, it will take 40 years for Israel to complete the Temple and not until the last brick is Laid will God recognize Israel as a country again.

Again this Angel was tested with 1st John chapter 4 verses 1-3. He passed.

I've got some more info for you guys but we'll wait and see what happens in May of 2018 before I put it out there.

If in May of 2018 they break ground for the Temple to be built, then my friend you are a prophet whether you acknowledge it nor, whether you want it or not want it, you are. Providing it comes to pass as you say the Angel of God told you.

No prophet old or new ever prophesied something that did not come from God, an Angel of God, a visions from God, a voice of God, dream or vision from God. If an Angel of God revealed to you what is going to happen in May of 2018 and it comes to pass, then you are His prophet regardless if you want it or not. God chooses whom God will choose. Jonah did not want to be a prophet, but God made him one anyways. If God (in one of the ways mentioned above) is revealing to any person what is to come to pass during these last days, is a prophet/ess. Doesn't matter if you think you are or are not, if God is revealing to you what is to come to pass, then you are one.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[kohelet]

For if it was from God, then it will happen, but if not, then it makes you a false prophet/teacher.

Well, Ahwatukee, there's a lot of loopiness going on here, but what you say is not strictly correct. Anyone whose prophecy didn't come to pass was a false prophet under the old covenant, when men spoke the very words of God. The situation changed when it was superseded by the new. See Agabus and his prophecies. Wayne Grudem covers this in Systematic Theology (or his doctoral thesis).

Still, there are some strange things being said here. No doubt about that.

 

[DiscipleDave]

No not Gabriel. Their names are too complicated for our voices to mechanically reproduce at this time. He gave me an alias that is a short version of his name if you must know. I'm not at liberty to write what this is but it's a very basic alias name. Here's something concerning this though, All the angel's names in the Bible are Aliases. Shocker I know, but we just can't speak their true names correctly and to do so would actually give us power to call on them at this time, which we are not supposed to have this courtesy as of yet.

Also the spirit that is inside each one of us has it's own name as well.

The easiest way to explain this is to say we are all in the Matrix right now. We are all here being tested in the Matrix. Outside of the matrix is the Real, the Universe, Heaven. Inside the Matrix our names are given to us by the parents we are born to. Outside of the Matrix we have a name that is given to us by Jesus Christ before the Earth was even thought of.

The Matrix that we live in, is the world we see with our eyes. The real world is angels and demons. God and satan. Heaven and Hell. Those things that those who are in the Matrix can't see. Those in the matrix are concerned with LIFE, job, family, car, bills, house, vacation, money, sex, drugs, music, entertainment, LIFE. Those who love Life are they that love the Matrix. Those who have given up this life, realize that the Matrix is not real, not the big picture. There is only one thing important in this life, NOTHING else is more important than this one thing. "Where are going to spend eternity" Those who are in the matrix are concerned with LIFE in the Matrix, they are oblivious of the REAL.
Those who take the Red pill are they that understand this LIFE is NOTHING, meaningless, they realize that we are all in the Matrix being tested to see if we are worthy to live outside of the Matrix (Heaven) They realize the battle is not with things that are in our life, but those things that are outside of our life. What is troubling is how many people THINK they took the red pill but have taken the blue one instead. As if they say with their mouths i choose to eat the red pill, but in reality they pick up the blue one and swallow it, all the while thinking their whole entire life they swallowed the red pill.

Anyways don't want any debate on this matter, if you take it, well, if you don't that is well also.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[DiscipleDave]

Oh, excuse me. As I corrected my own self in the post, when May of this year passes by and there is no fulfillment of your claim from God for the ground breaking of the temple, then at that time you will become a false prophet, because If God told you that, then it must happen. If it doesn't, then God didn't tell you. As I said, this is important and not a trivial issue. You have claimed something from God and have given a specific month. Therefore, it is important for us to watch. For if it was from God, then it will happen, but if not, then it makes you a false prophet/teacher.

Amen and this is absolutely True, but don't you have a double standard? You say i am a false prophet, yet nothing that i have said will come to pass has NOT happened as i said it will happen. You rightly say above to him, if what you say does not come to pass then you are a false prophet. This thing is TRUE and is a Scriptural reason to call someone false. But you call me false based on your own opinions and not by what i say shall come to pass or not come to pass. Do you see the double standard here?

Anyone who professes something will come to pass and it does not come to pass is a false prophet. This is TRUE.
But you say i am a false prophet because what you believe does not line up with what i teach, Is that how YOU determine who is a false prophet and who is not a false prophet? By if it lines up with what YOU believe?

If what i teach will come to pass does not come to pass then i am false.
If what i teach is contrary to plain Scriptures then i am false.

If you think i am false and accuse a servant of the Most High God as being a false prophet then show what i said will come to pass that did not come to pass. Or show a verse that is plainly contrary to anything that i teach that i say is from God. If you can't do either of those two things, how are you not falsely accusing a brother, which is a sin in the eyes of God Himself? So then as i have asked many times now to you. Show me something that i have said, and the verse that contradicts it? i ask you that, but what do i get from you. i get something that i said and then i get your opinion, your interpretations that contradict what i teach. Saying such things like "Since the Church is not mentioned in any of these verses that means the Church is NOT present at those times" This is NOT Scriptures but your opinion, your interpretation. Therefore if you think i am false then would it not be the Godly thing to do to reveal to me the Scriptures that are contrary to what i teach, in so doing you will have proven to all that i am false, not to be hearkened to. But as it stands now, you accuse but do not present the evidence that such an accusation is justified. Again, an overwhelming feeling comes over me, i am talking to the air, and you will not respond at all to this. But who knows, by saying that, maybe that will change.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[Ahwatukee]

Hello DiscipleDave,

Scriptures please? Where in Scriptures does it teach they are NOT the same event? Scriptures please? Thanks.

As we have shared with you many time, the event of the gathering of the church vs. the Lord's return to the earth to end the age, are two separate events. This truth can be deduced from cross-referencing and comparing scripture.

----- (Gathering of the church) -------------------------------- (Second Coming) ----------------

Meets the Lord in the air ---------------------------- The Lord returns to the earth to end the age

Taken back to the Father's house ----------------- Follows the Lord out of heaven to the earth

Is imminent ------------------------------------------- Requires many signs that must take place prior to

Occurs prior to God's wrath ------------------------ Occurs after the completion of God's wrath

People, God told me that when Jesus comes back the second time, He is here to STAY

God did not tell you that, because it contradicts His written word which says that he went to prepare places for all believers and is coming back to take us to those places that he prepared, which are in the Father's house.

When Christ comes back a second time it is at that time He gathers up the Church.

Jesus will not gather the church at the second coming, because God's wrath via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments must take place prior to the Lord's return to the earth to end the age, which would put the church through the entire wrath of God, and which we not appointed to suffer:

"They tell how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God, and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead—Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath." - 1 Thes.1:10

"Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him! - Rom.5:9
The church is not appointed to suffer God's coming wrath:

"But since we belong to the day, let us be sober, putting on faith and love as a breastplate, and the hope of salvation as a helmet. For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ. - 1 Thes.5:9

The Lord promised through the letter to the church of Philadelphia and all believers who endure patiently, to keep us out of that hour of trial, the time of God's wrath:

"Because you have kept the word of My patient endurance, I also will keep you out of the hour of the trial being about to come upon the whole inhabited world, to try those dwelling upon the earth.

It is at that time that the Holy City comes down WITH Jesus Christ. It is at that time that the Father is here on Earth in the Holy City

Man, your chronology of end time events is way out of whack! According to scripture, the New Jerusalem never comes down upon this present earth. Below is the scriptural order of events:


* The Lord Gathers the church meeting them in the air - John 14:1-3, 1 Thes.4:13-18, 1 Cor.15:51-53

* The day of the Lord (God's wrath) - Revelation 6 - 18

* The Lord's returns to end the age and establish His millennial kingdom - Matt.24:29-31, Rev.1:7, 19:11-21

* Beast and false prophet cast into the lake of fire, alive - Rev.19:20

* Satan is seized and thrown into and restricted in the Abyss for a thousand years - Rev.20:1-3

* Great tribulation saints resurrected - Rev.20:4-6

* Thousand year reign of Christ

* At the End of the thousand years Satan is release and then thrown into the lake of fire - Rev.20:10

* Great white throne judgment takes place, heaven and earth flee from God's presence - Rev.20:11-15, 21:1

* New heaven, new earth, new Jerusalem

* Eternity ................................................................>

That is the order of events given in scripture. This current heaven and earth passes away after the great white throne judgment, then the Jerusalem comes down out of heaven from God. This present earth will never see the new Jerusalem.

In addition, do you actually believe that God would bring the holy city new Jerusalem down to this sin tainted planet? NO! It will come down in all its glory after the new heaven and new earth have been created.

The Saints do NOT go to HEAVEN after being Raptured

Scripture says differently:

"Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; believe in Me as well. In My Father’s house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and welcome you into My presence, so that you also may be where I am.

Jesus told his disciples and all believers, that he was going to the Father's house to prepare places for us. And that he was going to come back and take us to the Father's house to those dwelling places that he went to prepare, so that where He is we may be also. Therefore, I don't know how you can say that we are not going to heaven, when the scripture is very clear on this. And since this has not yet taken place, it is then a future event which must be fulfilled.

UGH!

Jesus comes back at the 7th Trumpet sounding.
At the 7th Trumpet all kingdoms of the world then belong to Jesus.
At the 7th Trumpet the dead are raised.

The 7th trumpet is not the "last trumpet" of 1 Cor.15:52.

The last trumpet is the blessed event of the church being gathered, where the 7th trumpet is a plague of wrath, which the church is not appointed to suffer. All you're doing here, is misapplying these trumpets as being the same in order to support your belief.

There is nothing in the scripture in or around the 7th trumpet that mentions or even hints at the gathering of the church.

The "last trumpet" and the 7th trumpet, are two different kinds or types of trumpets.

i challenge any person, learned or otherwise, to find one verse that is contrary to anything that i say below, ONE VERSE.

Consider yourself challenged and debunked with not just one, but many scriptures.

If you believe what God has told me, and reread the whole Bible front to back with this knowledge, then you will see and understand all prophesies fit into what God has told me, you will absolutely be amazed how Scriptures plainly teaches what God has told me, but until you discard what you think is the TRUTH, the TRUTH will elude you.

I have read the Bible front to back and many times in between, and will not discard what I have learned and know to be the truth, because what you are teaching is false and therefore, God did not tell you this. Regardless of what you think, your teachings do not line up with scripture.

 

[DiscipleDave]

Regardless of all that you have written above, the context of the scripture speaks for itself. I am not against you, but I am just making it known that, the antichrist is going to make his agreement with Israel, initiating that last seven year period. Then in the middle he is going to cause the sacrifices and offerings to cease and will set up that abomination in the holy place.

This is True except for one thing, it does not initiate the last 7 years, but happens DURING the 7 years, coinciding with the 7 year Tribulation Period. The antichrist causes a peace agreement between Israel and the Muslims, the Peace Agreement is for 7 years, allowing them to rebuild their Temple. It is only after three and half years of this peace agreement that the antichrist enters into the Holy of Holies desecrating it. The Jews to this day are waiting for the Messiah to show up. The Muslims to this day are waiting for the Mahdi to show up. When the antichrist shows up, the Jews and the Muslims believe this man is their Messiah, hence he causes the peace agreement between the two nations. Israel builds their temple and starts sacrificing animals again, which the whole world deems barbaric and turn against Israel. When the antichrist enters the Holy of Hollies, which only the High Priest of God can do once a year, is when the Jews realize they have made a terrible mistake concerning this man, thinking him to be the awaited Messiah. When this happen the Muslim attack the Jews, breaking the peace agreement, Jews then are again scattered out of their city once again.


^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[DiscipleDave]

I also have nothing against you Ahwatukee, and wish the best for you, and that the Lord helps us to gain further knowledge on these events, as indicated in Daniel 12:4 & 9.
I would like to ask you a couple of questions though.
In Matthew 24:15-16, the Lord informs us that when we see the abomination of desolation (aka the little horn/the antichrist) stand in the holy place, that those in Judea should then flee to the mountains.
According to your perspective this would put the antichrist standing in a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem before any desolation takes place, would it not?
Second question is easier. As mountains in the bible are often a metaphor for large nations, and hills often refer to small nations; do you realize that when the people in Judea are told that upon seeing the abomination of desolation standing where he ought not stand that they should then flee into the large nations for cover?

Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

The antichrist walks into the Holy of Holies which desecrates the Temple of God. Only the High Priest of God can enter into the Holy of Holies and that only once a year. The antichrist walks in there. and it is then that they realize that he is NOT the awaited Messiah as they thought, and turn against him. This is when the Muslim are instructed to kill the Jews, because they still believe he is their messiah, that is why when the Antichrist desecrates the temple. Jews should run out of the city, because they are about to be killed by the Antichrist and the Muslims. The Jews will be scattered once more over the Earth. but it is also at this time that a remnant of the Jews will be Saved, because it is at that same time when they are fleeing for their lives that Jesus Returns, the TRUE Messiah. The Second and Final Coming of Jesus Christ.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[Ahwatukee]

But you call me false based on your own opinions and not by what i say shall come to pass or not come to pass. Do you see the double standard here?

Though it is true that you haven't claimed a specific time period for any event, your teachings do not line up with scripture, which is why I say that they are false. In your case, we have to wait to see the order in which end-time events take place to prove them wrong.

You say, the church is going to be gathered when the Lord returns to the earth to end the age. Scripture says NO! Because for one thing, it would put the church through the entire wrath of God. Since Jesus already suffered God's wrath for us, then we can in no wise go through it, not to mention that scripture states that we will not go through it.

You say that the church is not going to heaven, yet scripture states that Jesus went to prepare dwelling places for the church in the Father's house, which can only be referring to heaven. And that he was coming back to get us to take us to those dwelling places so that we can be where He is. Yet you say NO!

You have the New Jerusalem coming down upon this present earth in the middle of that last seven years. Yet the chronological order of scripture has the New Jerusalem coming down after this current heaven and earth have passed away and after the great white throne judgment takes place.

You claim that the "last trumpet of 1 Cor.15:52 is synonymous with the 7th trumpet of the trumpet judgments. Yet, there is no mention of the gathering of the church anywhere in or around the context of the 7th trumpet. The only reason that you make two as being the same trumpet is because they both use the word trumpet. You don't take into consideration that there are different trumpets, with different purposes. We can't just pigeonhole words to make them fit our view.

Saying such things like "Since the Church is not mentioned in any of these verses that means the Church is NOT present at those times" This is NOT Scriptures but your opinion, your interpretation.

No, it is not my opinion, or my interpretation, but is proper exegesis via cross-referencing and comparing scripture.

These are clues given by God in His word. If you have chapters 1 thru 3 using the word "church" 18 times, and within those same chapters never see the word "Saints." Then, from chapter 4 onward see only the word "Saints" but the word church is never used again throughout the entire narrative, then this is relatively important. It's a red flag.

There is a distinction being made here between the church and the great tribulation saints, which are introduced in Rev.7:9-17. The very fact that the elder is asking John who they are, especially after he just wrote letters to the churches, demonstrates that this group is not the church, but a new group who become believers after the church has been gathered and during the time of God's wrath. I can't help it if this has not been revealed to you in God's word, but it has to me.

Teaching that the Lord is not going gather His church as He promised, but instead will be present on the earth during the time of His wrath, is not having faith in HIs promise.

Stop ignoring those scriptures that I provide to you which demonstrate that the church is not appointed to suffer God's wrath. The underlying principal is that Jesus experienced God's wrath for every believer, satisfying it completely. So now God's wrath no longer rests upon the believer. Yet, you have the church going through God's wrath. And anyone who says that God is going to leave us here and protect us through it, is 1). not paying attention to scripture and 2). doesn't understand the severity and magnitude of God's coming wrath.

 

[Ahwatukee]

The Jews will be scattered once more over the Earth. but it is also at this time that a remnant of the Jews will be Saved, because it is at that same time when they are fleeing for their lives that Jesus Returns, the TRUE Messiah. The Second and Final Coming of Jesus Christ.

Above is another example of you contradicting scripture. The Jews are not scattered over the earth at the setting up of the abomination. The woman of Revelation 12, who symbolically represents Israel, flees out into the wilderness to that place that God will have prepared for her, where she will remain for 1260 days, i.e. that last 3 1/2 years until Christ returns. At that time Satan sends a flood/army after her, but God helps the woman/Israel by opening the earth and swallowing the flood/army. Israel is protected out in the wilderness at the place that God will have prepared for her ahead of time, not scattered to other nations.

"woman fled into the wilderness, where God had prepared a place for her to be nourished for one thousand two hundred sixty days"

"But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle to fly from the presence of the serpent to her place in the wilderness, where she was nourished for a time, and times, and half a time. "

 

[Ahwatukee]

Well, Ahwatukee, there's a lot of loopiness going on here, but what you say is not strictly correct. Anyone whose prophecy didn't come to pass was a false prophet under the old covenant, when men spoke the very words of God. The situation changed when it was superseded by the new. See Agabus and his prophecies. Wayne Grudem covers this in Systematic Theology (or his doctoral thesis).

Still, there are some strange things being said here. No doubt about that.

Hello Kohelet,

You must have missed the other post. I also told him that when his claim doesn't come true in May, that he should just repent and confess it and adhere to God's written word.

The issue here is serious, because he has claimed that God the Father sent him an angel to reveal these things to him. It is a serious matter to say "God told me" and then it not come true. Because when God says something is going to take place, it takes place. Since Roadkill has stated that God told him that this would happen in May and it doesn't happen, then it will make him a false prophet/teacher, which he will then need to repent of. Then there is the question of, "who was that angel who told him this?"

 

[Ahwatukee]

Since when is saying an Angel spoke to me is the same as saying God spoke to me? i have never said an angel spoke to me concerning any end time events, this is a lie, which seem you now condone, if you agree with that lie.

Because an angel is always bringing information directly from God. Therefore, whether you say "God told me" or "an angel told me" it is the same. The representing God. Below is what Roadkill said, which he says "is a verification to let me know that this was from God the Father."

Now for your verification here is something to let you know this if from God the Father.
In May of 2018 the ground for the new Temple on the Mount will be broken. It will take 40 years for this temple to be completed. When the last stone is place then will begin the last 7 year countdown of Daniel's 70 weeks concerning Israel before Jesus' Return to this Earth to set up his Millennium Kingdom on Earth.

If then you know that demons do talk to people, why would you think God or Angels of God would not talk to people too?

I do believe that angels speak with people and that God can also speak with people. It is when what they are claiming doesn't match with His already written word or come true, that would prove them to be lying about God or His angels speaking to them.