Not By Works

Endoscopy · Feb 11, 2018

The bibles I use are NKJV/NIV/NLT/ESV (strongs version) all also have Bible study notes.
I also have the Apologetics study Bible with notes along with the Gospel transformation notes, and reformation Study Bible notes

I have the following translations.

Darby's, and YLT.

I have Matthew Henry's commentary.

I also Bible hub.

I do try to get an understanding of the Greek behind the translation we have in the Bible today.

I think that helps but can lead to confusion, for me anyway.

Romans 7

Romans 7:18-20
18 And I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. I want to do what is right, but I can’t. 19 I want to do what is good, but I don’t. I don’t want to do what is wrong, but I do it anyway. 20 But if I do what I don’t want to do, I am not really the one doing wrong; it is sin living in me that does it.

Romans 7:17-18
17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find.

The Greek in my bolded above is sarx. Which means flesh as said in NKJV but in NLT/NIV it's sinful nature.

So here's my struggle.

Do I have a new nature or not?
If I have a new nature then why do I still sin.
How does sin reside in my flesh?
If it does then do I still have a sinful nature?
Because if I sin then it's my nature that causes me to sin, the sinful nature.

What compounds it for me is

Romans 8:1

1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. (NKJV)

Romans 8:4
4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. (NKJV)

So that's why I'm confused.

If memory serves me the textus receptus includes Romans 8:1 and 8:4 - Who do not walk according to the flesh.

Yet the Westcott-Hort translation

Inteprets Romans 8:1

There is no condemnation for those in Jesus and there it ends.

Romans 8:1
Life Through the Spirit
1 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, (NIV)

Mind you not all my study has done my head in.

I have been been released from a lot of faulty concepts and thinking.

Bet your glad you asked

Thank you for asking though.

I am always open to correction and learning.

IIfind the Amplified classiC version veryvhelpfuv for study. It makes somewhat cumbersome reading. Many words from the original language are translated with multiple definitions. Here is John 3:16 for example.

John 3 AMPC

16 [FONT=&quot]For God so greatly loved [/FONT]and dearly prized the world that He [even] gave up His only begotten ([d]unique) Son, so that whoever believes in (trusts in, clings to, relies on) Him shall not perish (come to destruction, be lost) but have eternal (everlasting) life.

loverofjesus27 · Feb 11, 2018

BillG said:

Yeah exactly that. That’s my conviction. Basically. It always points to there. Lol.

dcontroversal · Feb 11, 2018

loverofjesus27 said:

Go to a different thread and come back..it will refresh page and bring all buttons up

BillG · Feb 11, 2018

Endoscopy said:

IIfind the Amplified classiC version veryvhelpfuv for study. It makes somewhat cumbersome reading. Many words from the original language are translated with multiple definitions. Here is John 3:16 for example.

John 3 AMPC

16 For God so greatly loved and dearly prized the world that He [even] gave up His only begotten ([d]unique) Son, so that whoever believes in (trusts in, clings to, relies on) Him shall not perish (come to destruction, be lost) but have eternal (everlasting) life.

Looks like I can download that on my olive tree app.

Rosemaryx · Feb 11, 2018

Ralph- said:

Hi Ralph...It is impossible for those who have been born again not to have good works , and it is impossible for those who claim to be born again to have a changed life style , they lack the Holy Spirit ...

Philippians 2:13 For God is working in you, giving you the desire and the power to do what pleases him...xox...

BillG · Feb 11, 2018

loverofjesus27 said:

Thanks for clarifying.
I wasn't sure if you were saying every time we sin we need to go to the elders.

Endoscopy · Feb 11, 2018

Stupid foolish 5 minute rule. I had to let my dog out so couldn't fix typos caused by the interaction between this site and my SwiftKey keyboard on my tablet.

dcontroversal · Feb 11, 2018

Endoscopy said:

One time while teaching a lesson in a church that had some King Jimmy-onlyists......I read a verse out of the amplified.....you would have thought that JESUS cracked all 7 seals at once.........BOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMM!

Ignorance is one virtue well known and employed by some.........^^^^^^^^^

BillG · Feb 11, 2018

Endoscopy said:

I've started using Swiftkey on my iPad.

I need be careful to check. Some weird words get added and some note.

Always best to read besides Payne.

loverofjesus27 · Feb 11, 2018

BillG said:

Well you are always welcome to but you go to the elders if it’s a bondage you can’t break.

BillG · Feb 11, 2018

loverofjesus27 said:

Yeh I agree with that, or a mature brother in Jesus.

dcontroversal · Feb 11, 2018

Rosemaryx said:

AMEN Rose....and all honest people know that we have all said that....the only contention is

a. Salvation is based entirely upon faith
b. Salvation is eternal and cannot be lost or forfeit because it is based upon the faith, promises, work and power of Christ
c. Works of every flavor will be found in believers
d. SOME will have many, some as little as a few or maybe ONE<--The work of the HEAVENLY FATHER found in FAITH
e. THE saved will at times fail and SIN, some more than others...GOD only chastens SONS......
f. GOD deals with SIN differently in a believer as opposed to a lost man

and.....it is a flat LIE to say that those who believe in eternal security (in this thread) have advocated a lifestyle of sin.....

PERIOD!

Endoscopy · Feb 11, 2018

dcontroversal said:

One of the biggest problems with KJV is it was translated in 1611. The English language has changed since then. For example kill in 1611 was committing murder.

KJV
Thou shalt not kill.

NIV
You shall not murder.

loverofjesus27 · Feb 11, 2018

I like the amplified version because it gives more detail in context like having a dictionary between the verse. So I don’t have worries of the meaning of texts.

dcontroversal · Feb 11, 2018

Endoscopy said:

And hardly anyone uses the 1611 version....I use a King Jimmy, but I look every word up in Greek and Hebrew.....no matter how one refuses to acknowledge the truth....the King James is a translation, transliteration and there are SOME words that are not translated correctly......for example.......In Galatians 1:6-7 the word ANOTHER is translated twice...once in verse 6 and once in verse 7.......two different words, two different meanings yet translated the same....

vs. 6 Heteros <----of a different kind
vs. 7 Allos <-----of the same kind

The Galatian brothers were being taught a gospel of a DIFFERENT KIND which was not the SAME KIND PAUL preached and this book forever settles in my mind the gospel of a DIFFERENT KIND which has NO power to save..........all who preach it are DOUBLE CURSED by PAUL and he calls them fools for believing it..........

I found one PSALM in my studies that has a word translated the same 3 times in the first two or so verses....and ALL three words are different words with different meanings......

Going to the original languages has really set me free and opened my eyes to many truths that get glossed over by the translations of men........

anyway...peace....and I know I came down hard on you the other day.....I tend to get very emphatic and my defense of the truth is fully set.....I apologize for my attitude, but not my stance.

Rosemaryx · Feb 11, 2018

dcontroversal said:

AMEN Rose....and all honest people know that we have all said that....the only contention is

a. Salvation is based entirely upon faith
b. Salvation is eternal and cannot be lost or forfeit because it is based upon the faith, promises, work and power of Christ
c. Works of every flavor will be found in believers
d. SOME will have many, some as little as a few or maybe ONE<--The work of the HEAVENLY FATHER found in FAITH
e. THE saved will at times fail and SIN, some more than others...GOD only chastens SONS......
f. GOD deals with SIN differently in a believer as opposed to a lost man

and.....it is a flat LIE to say that those who believe in eternal security (in this thread) have advocated a lifestyle of sin.....

PERIOD!

Amen brother...\

/...

Endoscopy · Feb 11, 2018

dcontroversal said:

Having been in electronics and software since I graduated tech school I found KISS a valuable tool. Keep It Simple Stupid. Too many engineers liked to add bells and whistles to the hardware or software. That made troubleshooting a problem much more difficult. I apply it to theology. I look at all of the relevant scriptures and boil it down to the simplest concept. For example faith and works.

Faith requires works. No works means no faith.

Many scriptures including a quote of Jesus state this. Therefore faith that saves MUST have accompanying works. Therefore works proves salvation.

BillG · Feb 11, 2018

Endoscopy said:

Having been in electronics and software since I graduated tech school I found KISS a valuable tool. Keep It Simple Stupid. Too many engineers liked to add bells and whistles to the hardware or software. That made troubleshooting a problem much more difficult. I apply it to theology. I look at all of the relevant scriptures and boil it down to the simplest concept. For example faith and works.

Faith requires works. No works means no faith.

Many scriptures including a quote of Jesus state this. Therefore faith that saves MUST have accompanying works. Therefore works proves salvation.

Does not salvation define works?
Or are we saying the same thing

loverofjesus27 · Feb 11, 2018

BillG said:

Naw, just an elders we are lookin’ at grey to white hairs here. That’s my cue. No grey hair or white you might not be an elder. Sincerely. Plus you are looking for wise advice.

Endoscopy · Feb 11, 2018

dcontroversal said:

And hardly anyone uses the 1611 version....I use a King Jimmy, but I look every word up in Greek and Hebrew.....no matter how one refuses to acknowledge the truth....the King James is a translation, transliteration and there are SOME words that are not translated correctly......for example.......In Galatians 1:6-7 the word ANOTHER is translated twice...once in verse 6 and once in verse 7.......two different words, two different meanings yet translated the same....

vs. 6 Heteros <----of a different kind
vs. 7 Allos <-----of the same kind

The Galatian brothers were being taught a gospel of a DIFFERENT KIND which was not the SAME KIND PAUL preached and this book forever settles in my mind the gospel of a DIFFERENT KIND which has NO power to save..........all who preach it are DOUBLE CURSED by PAUL and he calls them fools for believing it..........

I found one PSALM in my studies that has a word translated the same 3 times in the first two or so verses....and ALL three words are different words with different meanings......

Going to the original languages has really set me free and opened my eyes to many truths that get glossed over by the translations of men........

anyway...peace....and I know I came down hard on you the other day.....I tend to get very emphatic and my defense of the truth is fully set.....I apologize for my attitude, but not my stance.

The problem is too many people claim KJV to be the best translation. The original languages are perfect but translations have errors. Especially very old ones like KJV.

Not By Works

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